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Why for am I not surprised by this?

5-90

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http://finance.yahoo.com/news/INSIDE-WASHINGTON-Rude-apf-15091434.html?.v=1

Let's see:
1) We issue a tax credit to help the economy.
2) We do it in such a hurry that the 'fix' is full of holes.
3) We decide to pump billions of dollars into the economy - created from whole cloth, with nothing to back it up.
4) We find out we made a mistake on the tax credit after it's being issued, but we don't tell anyone that the withholdings and tax rate tables are being changed to reflect it.

Once again - a National Retail Sales Tax to replace outright the FITW just looks better and better...
 
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/INSIDE-WASHINGTON-Rude-apf-15091434.html?.v=1

Let's see:
1) We issue a tax credit to help the economy.
2) We do it in such a hurry that the 'fix' is full of holes.
3) We decide to pump billions of dollars into the economy - created from whole cloth, with nothing to back it up.
4) We find out we made a mistake on the tax credit after it's being issued, but we don't tell anyone that the withholdings and tax rate tables are being changed to reflect it.

Once again - a National Retail Sales Tax to replace outright the FITW just looks better and better...


You are joking, right?

National sales taxes would only increase the tax burden on working class America. The highest portion of 'our' income goes to providing the basic necessities and our mortgages (which would then be taxed). Do you really think that some one who pulls in 1 mil a year has the same portion of his/her salary go towards basic? Do you really think that 'they' have that much of 'their' income sucked up by 'life' in general?

No, the best answer is a flat income tax. Everyone that works and has income pays the same. No tax rebates for kids or mortgages. No business expenses. Just one flat income tax.
 
You are joking, right?

National sales taxes would only increase the tax burden on working class America. The highest portion of 'our' income goes to providing the basic necessities and our mortgages (which would then be taxed). Do you really think that some one who pulls in 1 mil a year has the same portion of his/her salary go towards basic? Do you really think that 'they' have that much of 'their' income sucked up by 'life' in general?

No, but they spend a lot on stuff they don't need which would be taxed just the same.

A guy buying a 15 million dollar boat would pay more in sales tax than I will ever give the government in my life time.

I would bet that a guy making 20K a year or 20 20Ks a year still spends about the same amount of his income, it may not be on nessesary stuff but its still getting taxed.
 
No, but they spend a lot on stuff they don't need which would be taxed just the same.

A guy buying a 15 million dollar boat would pay more in sales tax than I will ever give the government in my life time.

I would bet that a guy making 20K a year or 20 20Ks a year still spends about the same amount of his income, it may not be on nessesary stuff but its still getting taxed.

Yeah, so those people that make that amount simply go to a foreign country to make their big purchases. We already do that for alot of stuff. What's to stop those people that make that kind of money?
 
Yeah, so those people that make that amount simply go to a foreign country to make their big purchases. We already do that for alot of stuff. What's to stop those people that make that kind of money?

Nothing. But we could throw some serious penaltys on people who own big ticket items bought from other countries. Ask someone who lives in the UK. They do it now.
 
Nothing. But we could throw some serious penaltys on people who own big ticket items bought from other countries. Ask someone who lives in the UK. They do it now.

Sure you could, but personally that goes goes against my political beliefs. I don't have a problem with someone purchasing something else where, paying the taxes on it there and bringing it back here. But I do think it would be BS to penalize them just because they can afford that 'choice'.
 
You are joking, right?

National sales taxes would only increase the tax burden on working class America. The highest portion of 'our' income goes to providing the basic necessities and our mortgages (which would then be taxed). Do you really think that some one who pulls in 1 mil a year has the same portion of his/her salary go towards basic? Do you really think that 'they' have that much of 'their' income sucked up by 'life' in general?


You don't have to tax food or clothing. But the national sales tax would catch all of the under the table cash transactions that do not get taxed now, and all of the illicit cash too. If you work and get a w2 every dollar is taxed, but if you run a cash business....

I'm all for the national sales tax. Plus paying taxes on my unearned income (on savings) really irritates me, gives people less incentive to save and that is part of what got us to this miserable economy.
 
You are joking, right?

National sales taxes would only increase the tax burden on working class America. The highest portion of 'our' income goes to providing the basic necessities and our mortgages (which would then be taxed). Do you really think that some one who pulls in 1 mil a year has the same portion of his/her salary go towards basic? Do you really think that 'they' have that much of 'their' income sucked up by 'life' in general?

No, the best answer is a flat income tax. Everyone that works and has income pays the same. No tax rebates for kids or mortgages. No business expenses. Just one flat income tax.

One solution they have for low-income families is the "prebate". Basically a refund check. Info on that is here: http://www.fairtax.org/PDF/FairTaxPrebateExplained2007.pdf

A long-winded answer to your post... from http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_fairtax_four#regressive They suggest a 23% sales tax.

Question: "The FairTax is regressive and shifts the tax burden onto lower and middle income people"

The truth: The FairTax actually eliminates and reimburses all federal taxes for those below the poverty line. This is accomplished through the universal prebate and by eliminating the highly regressive FICA payroll tax. Today, low and moderate income Americans pay far more in FICA taxes than income taxes. Those spending at twice the poverty level pay a FairTax of only 11.5 percent -- a rate much lower than the income and payroll tax burden they bear today. Meanwhile, the wealthy pay the 23 percent retail sales tax on their retail purchases.

Under the federal income tax, slow economic growth and recessions have a disproportionately adverse impact on lower-income families. Breadwinners in these families are more likely to lose their jobs, are less likely to have the resources to weather bad economic times, and are more in need of the initial employment opportunities that a dynamic, growing economy provides. Retaining the present tax system makes economic progress needlessly slow and frustrates attempts at upward mobility through hard work and savings, thus harming low-income taxpayers the most.

In contrast, the FairTax dramatically improves economic growth and wage rates for all, but especially for lower-income families and individuals. In addition to receiving the monthly FairTax prebate, these taxpayers are freed from regressive payroll taxes, the federal income tax, and the compliance burdens associated with each. They pay no more business taxes hidden in the price of goods and services, and used goods are tax free.

How can the FairTax generate lower net tax rates for everyone and still pay for the same real government expenditures? The answer is two-fold. Firstly, the tax base is dramatically widened by including consumer spending from the underground economy (estimated at $1.5 trillion annually), and by including illegal immigrants, those who escape their fair share today through loopholes and gimmicks. In addition, 40 million foreign tourists a year will become American taxpayers as consumers here. Secondly, not everyone's average net tax burden falls. For households whose major economic resource is accumulated wealth, the FairTax will deliver a net tax hike compared to the current system.

Consider, for example, your typical billionaire, of which America now has more than 400. These fortunate few are invested primarily in equities on which they pay taxes at a 15 percent rate, whether their income comes in the form of capital gains or dividends. In addition to having the income from their wealth taxed at a low rate, the principal of their wealth is completely untaxed either directly or indirectly. Assuming they and their heirs spend only the income earned on the wealth each year, the tax rate today is 15 percent. In contrast, under the FairTax, the effective tax rate is 23 percent. Hence, the very wealthy will pay more taxes when the FairTax is enacted. In a nutshell, those who spend more will pay more but low, moderate and middle income taxpayers will benefit from the greatest gains in reduced tax liabilities.
 
You are joking, right?

National sales taxes would only increase the tax burden on working class America. The highest portion of 'our' income goes to providing the basic necessities and our mortgages (which would then be taxed). Do you really think that some one who pulls in 1 mil a year has the same portion of his/her salary go towards basic? Do you really think that 'they' have that much of 'their' income sucked up by 'life' in general?

No, the best answer is a flat income tax. Everyone that works and has income pays the same. No tax rebates for kids or mortgages. No business expenses. Just one flat income tax.

Yeah - like we don't have a large tax bite now? A NRST of 5-7% would actually reduce that tax bite, you know.

Applied as with state sales taxes, it wouldn't go on food, labour, or medical goods (which are not taxed by the states,) and there could be a "standard" and a "luxury" bracket. A Chevvy would not be taxed has strongly as, say, a Cadillac (after all, there are "sin taxes" and "luxury taxes" abound already!)

26CFR definitely needs a major overhaul - or just scrap it and start over. I just have a huge problem with every family needing to fill out paperwork that is better done by someone who has been to college for four years just to figure that out - pre-tax/after-tax income, exemptions, exclusions, deductible expenses, keeping track of everything - and if it's not bad enough that a 1040 makes a differential equation look relatively easy, but you then have to hang on to all this damned paperwork for a minimum of seven years, because the IRS has a paper fetish!

I get sorely tempted to mail in a "file copy" of my tax return every year - postage due - and tell them if they want the paperwork kept so damned bad, they can hang onto it themselves. It's getting awfully damned big for me to hang on to it around here...

I wonder what their reaction would be to $500-$600 in booze deducted as a "tax preparation expense" - "Hell, man! Being thoroughly drunk is the only way this rot makes any damned sense at all!"
 
Watch your generalizations Jon. Labor is taxed in a number of States. Certain kinds of foods are considered a luxury and are taxed. I don't know about the medical stuff.

The article was important, not for the reason you stated, but because the amount taken out of your check may not cover the taxes is is meant to, you may need to adjust your number of deductions on your W-4 right now, or pay come tax time.

The 2009 current withdrawl charts give you more take home, but will likely result in less of a refund, or even a tax owed next April 15th.
 
Yeah - like we don't have a large tax bite now? A NRST of 5-7% would actually reduce that tax bite, you know.

Applied as with state sales taxes, it wouldn't go on food, labour, or medical goods (which are not taxed by the states,) and there could be a "standard" and a "luxury" bracket. A Chevvy would not be taxed has strongly as, say, a Cadillac (after all, there are "sin taxes" and "luxury taxes" abound already!)

26CFR definitely needs a major overhaul - or just scrap it and start over. I just have a huge problem with every family needing to fill out paperwork that is better done by someone who has been to college for four years just to figure that out - pre-tax/after-tax income, exemptions, exclusions, deductible expenses, keeping track of everything - and if it's not bad enough that a 1040 makes a differential equation look relatively easy, but you then have to hang on to all this damned paperwork for a minimum of seven years, because the IRS has a paper fetish!

I get sorely tempted to mail in a "file copy" of my tax return every year - postage due - and tell them if they want the paperwork kept so damned bad, they can hang onto it themselves. It's getting awfully damned big for me to hang on to it around here...

I wonder what their reaction would be to $500-$600 in booze deducted as a "tax preparation expense" - "Hell, man! Being thoroughly drunk is the only way this rot makes any damned sense at all!"

You guys are missing my point.

How is two tax brackets 'fair'. Why should some rich SOB be taxed more because he has the means to purchase a luxury item?

My point is that if we had a flat income tax, then we would being or fair share of taxes.

And your comment that the tax burden would actually be reduced is not exactly true. In order for the same amount of taxes to be generated, and I'm paying 'less', then someone else is paying 'more'.
 
The reason the current tax structure is in place, dispite it's complications and flaws, is that it reflects societies values and still collects taxes.

A straight percentage tax, or NST sounds simple enough.

However, it seems to me that the well heeled person still makes out, and the middle/lower income person doesn't get help in the way of tax relief to buy his/her family a shed to live in. Larger families, once cherished by Americans, will dissapear as you will not be able to tax a tax deductions to clothe your children or send them to college. What about 401K and 403 retirement plans? Will those be tax defered? What about HMO/Medical plans? When you then try and take these alternate tax schemes and adapt them to what we value as a society, you will end up with the same patch work system we have now.
 
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You are joking, right?

National sales taxes would only increase the tax burden on working class America. The highest portion of 'our' income goes to providing the basic necessities and our mortgages (which would then be taxed). Do you really think that some one who pulls in 1 mil a year has the same portion of his/her salary go towards basic? Do you really think that 'they' have that much of 'their' income sucked up by 'life' in general?

No, the best answer is a flat income tax. Everyone that works and has income pays the same. No tax rebates for kids or mortgages. No business expenses. Just one flat income tax.

Fairtax.org

what "burden"? ~50% of America doesn't pay taxes - hell, a lot of them get MORE back than they had taken out in the first place! What is it, something like 39% of taxes are paid by 3% of the population?

Flat income tax requires that people actually report their true wages.

I'm sorry, but 5-90 is right - the only true fair way is a National Sales/Consumption tax. Then you don't get punished for saving your own damn money or investing in the economy (or government).

Hell, look at this, from 3 years ago:

http://www.parapundit.com/archives/002850.html

I can only imagine what it is like now....
 
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The current tax system is flawed - primarily due to deductibles. If you have the money for deductible expenses, you can expend them, and reduce your tax burden considerably.

For the "middle class" family just getting by, you don't have enough money to expend on deductibles, so you get boned.

And, I didn't know that labour is taxed in some states (although I'm generally against sales taxes on principle anyhow - along with most other taxes. You think property rights are still extant? Try not paying your property taxes for a year or two. Worse, trying violating some asinine "Municipal Code" that some damn fool passed just because he didn't like something someone was doing...)

I'm fully in favour of a more fair system - the NRST seems to be about the best way. Do not assess it against staple foodstuffs or labour (which, honestly, shouldn't be taxed anyhow.)

As far as a "luxury" bracket - most jurisdictions already have "luxury" taxes (akin to "sin taxes" on booze and smokes anyhow,) so that's a viable proposition. It may also be assessed on imported goods - so going overseas won't save you.

Flipside - most "sales taxes" should also go away. When you buy a used car, why is it you have to pay registration on it and pay tax on the purchase? Most "sales taxes" are only supposed to be assesed on goods sold as new to the original end-user, and something generally sold as 'used' isn't supposed to be taxed, under the pertinent business and professions codes. So, howcumzit?
 
....shit, I still think stuff like cigarettes and McDonalds should have a 500% tax. Let that crap pay for your National Healthcare Bullshit, Democrats....
 
Hey, leave my underground economy alone. It's the only thing that has kept my nose above water since all the off shoring and outsourcing started in the 90's and my income looked like a heartbeat monitor.
 
Larger families, once cherished by Americans, will dissapear as you will not be able to tax a tax deductions to clothe your children or send them to college.


Yup, that's the only reason I decided to have kids. For the tax break. :banghead:
 
that's why octo-mom has so many kids.. with wellfare kickbacks for all those kids, she makes more than I do!
 
A Nation Retail Sales Tax would make it so that all of the illegals and other tax dodgers would have no way to dodge paying their share anymore. That is why most of us could pay less, because those who pay notihng would have to start ponying up like the rest of us. Makes perfect sense, and it seems like the right thing to do since alot of those who are dodging paying taxes don't mind taking advantage of the services our tax dollars provide one bit.
 
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