im 17 and need help

Hi, I am 17 and an fairly in the dark about the offroad world.
I have a 2000 xj sport and the goal is that when I turn 18
I want my rig to be able to wheel, since im one of the few
around here that have any interest about offroading
im just looking for some reasurance that im doing the right thing
or if i missed anything, im trying to blend a daily driver rig
with a jeep that could hold its own offroad, heres what i have so far,

4.5" rustys lift kit with new leafs (no aal's)
either a turbo city stage 3 performance kit
or a rusty xj performace package
31" or 32" (dont know what brand or kind yet) wheels
new bumpers (dont know yet)

this is what i have so far, im pretty much in the dark with gears
and axles, and from what ive heard with a 4.5" lift
i wont need a SYE, or will i?

just looking for some feed back to see what im missing,
and to see if this rig will do good on street and offroad

thanks

More then likly you will need an sye. Go with 32" tires and skid plates . I used to live out there so i know what you mean, not to many places to go. I had to leave.

Hey dude...I'll go ahead and reply since I have the same year and model as you...

Well, due to the types of axles the 2000s were stuck with, you'll probably need an SYE. The Chrysler 8.25 rear axle is stronger than a Dana 35, but it is sensitive to lifts/driveshaft angles. A few questions for you...

Auto or Manual Tranny?
Rear axle type (if you're not sure, you might still have a white sticker on your passenger side axle tube - hopefully yours says 8.25 on it)

Did you already purchase the lift from Rusty's? If not...You're going to get a few posts from people suggesting you go with a different brand of lift - can't go wrong with Rubicon Express, Full Traction or Old Man Emu...

If you have 3.55, 3.73 or 4.10 gears (should also say on the rear axle "label" what your gears are) you are probably good up to 31 inch tires as far as not needing to regear. 32s might be a tight fit in your wheel wells, even with a 4.5 inch lift, might have to do some trimming, depends how much weight you're gonna be carting around and how much your springs sag....

I'm sure more people will chime in with comments...

Welcome rustysxj!

Sounds like a nice jeep, with lots of plans. But personally, untill you gain some offroad experience, you should hold off on the gadgets and gizmos. Besides, its a jeep! It can already hold its own, quite well infact, on both roads and trails. You'll be really suprized at how well they do just as they are, and when you wheel in stock form, you'll have a benchmark for all the mods you do in the future. That makes them that much more satisfying.

If you are planning on getting a 4.5, plan on getting that SYE if you want it to "hold its own". The price of gears and axles can add up quick, and aren't something a person just getting into offroading should worry about. 33" is about the absolute max you should put on your stock axles, but some guys run 35s without a hitch. Go beyond 33s, and you should upgrade your gears and axles. But beware, these things reduce the daily driverability(if thats a word) of your jeep.

Although, I understand the need to change stuff. I'm almost 18, too, and I can't keep my hands off my jeep. If you want to start getting prepared for offroading, compile an offroad kit, and outfit your jeep with some offroad essentials, such as recovery points and a fire extinguisher. There are a lot more important things that need to be addressed first before you buy a lift if you plan on offroading.

And perhaps even before you go about doing all of that, you should search and learn from this site for a few weeks. There is a lot of information here, and a lot of beginners have already asked the same question as you. You'll find answers to questoins you hadn't even thought to ask! The SEARCH BUTTON is your true friend right now as you begin to learn about getting your jeep dirty.

Hope you get a lot from this site.

sandman

I've got the 4.5 Rusty's kit... Didn't need a SYE and don't have any complaints yet. And I installed it and I'm only 19. I recommend doing it.

You also have an older jeep gnarwall.... the 97+ especialy with 8.25's have vibes even at 3 inches, I've been lucky, my 99 did great with just shims.

At the very least you will need shims and a transfer case drop

Well, since you asked.

Throw the rusty's trackbar away and buy another that is quality. That trackbar *will* fail; if you are lucky, it will fail on the trail and you'll just have a long walk home. If you aren't lucky, it will fail on the highway and you'll get a ride home with flashing lights. If your unlucky, someone else will be going with you.

Forget the performance kit, if you want to offroad, the 4.0 has enough power as it is - especially in the later model years; those mods give you power at the wrong RPM range anyways. It's just not the best way to spend your money .. power breaks parts.

Buy quality tires. My experiance has been BFG tires go flat, others might not say so - but either way, you do get what you pay for.

Armor goes a long way. Get some good rock rails, the JKS Supernerfs are very popular.

As a couple have said, look at what rear axle you have. If its the dana 35, you should look at replacing it. The d35 does not hold up well to bigger tires, or to lots of power .. and an 18 year old looking at 32's and performance mods will put down plenty of both. Someone here can probably post pictures of the dana 35 vs the Chrysler 8.25 for comparison. The 8.25 has a "flat" bottom where the dana 35 is very "round".

Welcome. The first thing I would do if I were you is get a few friends together or maybe a few people from this board, find a legal place to wheel and go out with your stock vehicle. Learn how to drive. I am not saying that you are a bad driving so don't take it that way. But driving off-road is a lot different than the highway. Get to know your vehicle, get to know it's capabilities. Invest right away in some GOOD rock sliders and as many skid plates as you can afford. Do it now while the body and everything is still in good shape. Get some good tow points and a good tow strap, you will need them.

The most important thing though is remember it is your rig. If you are happy with it that is the most important thing.

JNickel101 said:

Well, due to the types of axles the 2000s were stuck with, you'll probably need an SYE. The Chrysler 8.25 rear axle is stronger than a Dana 35, but it is sensitive to lifts/driveshaft angles.

Click to expand...

Its not the axles that the SYE is needed for or that cause the vibrations...

bubba is right i wheeled my first cherokee stock for ...well untill i sold it and if i were to do it again id wheel it stock the downfall in my wheeling experiencewas i would have relocated the gas tank trimmed more and shoehorned 32s and then gone crazy but it would look like a trail witch
and thats not for everybody just wheel'er and she'll tell you what she needs

Im 17 aswell and have been wheeling since fall stock (2000 Cherokee sport, it has 29.2 inch wheels on it tho) and been doing ALOT of reading and joined the regional club here in NY, and . Im the youngest member and they are all happy becuase of the lack of legal offroad vechile acces and trails being closed becuase of the illegal activity. They think its excellent for young kids to take alot of interest in legal offroading and events.(Plus you pretty much get local contacts for when you need any help!!) I wanted to jump right in with a 3.5 SF but with all the hidden costs associated with lifting a late model XJ I decided to get the BB for now and then save money and do it all the right way. Im going with a 2 inch bb and some 31 inch longhorns (they actually measure 30 inches) and skids and a rear locker. I already got the recovery points and a recovery strapp and hi lift. Wheel stock till you feel REALLY comfortable and read join and get all the Info you need!

The need for a SYE and drive shafts and stuff make it kinda nuts for me to jump into when its still my DD and I need to for college next yr so I'll need to do it all at once so Im going with a little lift to help the itch for now!

thanks for all the input, all my friends drive honda's
(they think offroading is ridiculous ) and people that offroad here
which are very few dont even care about me while they drive their lifted f-250's.

i was thinking about a buget lift, but i want to do it right the first time and be happy, and since im 17 i dont have to pay bills and have the luxury of putting all my money in my jeep. thanks for all the help, and yes i have chysler 8.25 rear and its automatic.

Also why im planning in advance a whole year, is of course like you guys said to practice with my stock. actually today i was looking for some offroad trails and i came across one and about a mile into it i hit what i though was an innocent mud hole, but it put all 4 wheels in the air (why i need a lift!, and mud tires), but lucky after about 10 minutes i managed to wiggle my way out of it with a half an inch of mud on my jeep, i took it home washed it all off (i clean this thing like its meant for a showcase) and i plan on going back and clearing that mud hole.

would it be easier for me to buy a 3 inch lift, and later go and put 1.5" coil spacers/shackles?

thanks for the advice and help
im glad i finally get get some answer and opinions

rustysxj said:

thanks for all the input, all my friends drive honda's
(they think offroading is ridiculous ) and people that offroad here
which are very few dont even care about me while they drive their lifted
f-250's.

i was thinking about a buget lift, but i want to do it right the first time and be happy, and since im 17 i dont have to pay bills and have the luxury of putting all my money in my jeep. thanks for all the help, and yes i have chysler 8.25 rear and its automatic.

Also why im planning in advance a whole year, is of course like you guys said to practice with my stock. actually today i was looking for some offroad trails and i came across one and about a mile into it i hit what i though was an innocent mud hole, but it put all 4 wheels in the air (why i need a lift!, and mud tires), but lucky after about 10 minutes i managed to wiggle my way out of it with a half an inch of mud on my jeep, i took it home washed it all off (i clean this thing like its meant for a showcase) and i plan on going back and clearing that mud hole.

thanks for the advice and help
im glad i finally get get some answer and opinions

Click to expand...

DEFINATELY do it right. at 17, thats when i lifted mine, so i know, you dont really have ALL that much expendable income... just enough to keep the project going...

4.5 lift is good [my rustys 4.5 has been holding up for over a year now]

like someone [was it cal?] said, GET A NEW TRACK-BAR. i vouch for rustys stuff [though many bash him] all the way, but i broke the trackbar twice before getting a new one. RE would be a safe choice.

definately go 32s. BF goodrich all-terrain ta ko tires are nice, they are very streetable, but still pretty decent in the trails [though if i were to choose one tire, it'd be trxus MT's]

forget the performance upgrades... give your motor an overhaul and call it a day.

get a SYE and new DS, youll need it... [save up buddy]

with the auto, you'll most likely have 3.55 gears. so with 32s [though youll suffer a bit] and a torque converter, youll likely not be SO put off by it..
gears are an EXPENSIVE part of a build. not only do they cost upwards of 600 for both gear sets, and both install kits, but installation [if you can't do it, and do it RIGHT] is just as much if not more...

well at least you got it out, if you can do that in a stocker, think about how youll be with 4.5" and 32s.

Travis

With your AW4 tranny and C8.25 rear end, you can do an SYE + rear driveshaft for under $300. I just did mine today. Jeepinoutfitters.com sells a HD SYE kit for $219 shipped, and you can get a front driveshaft from a Junkyard (or Ebay like I did) pretty cheap - the front driveshaft you have in your jeep now is the perfect length to fit in the rear with an SYE.

I have always been told that the combination of the longer pinion/3rd member on the C8.25 in combination with the slip yoke length and angle is what causes vibrations - is that incorrect Begster? But vibes are more common with the 8.25 than with the D35....

Actually, it has to do with the slip yoke, (Slip Yoke eliminator, go figure) at the end of the transfercase. The yoke slips on the output shaft. The slip is needed because as the axle moves up and down, the distance between the pinion and output shaft changes.

The pre 97 models have the slip yoke internally, which is why they have longer tail cones. This is also why if you take the yoke out it will start leaking fluid. This means that they are less prone to vibrations. The 97+ have the slip yoke externally, and thus is not as stable and is more prone to vibes. Slip yokes are perfectly fine, and why they came from the factory, but on lifted vehicles they are not ideal.

An SYE gets rid of the slip yoke at the tail end of the transfercase, and leaves a shorter shaft. A flange is also added so that a new shaft can be attached, much like at the pinion end. Since the output shaft is shorter, a new, longer driveshaft is needed, and helps with the geometry. A CV driveshaft helps with the angles, and it has a slip shaft to deal with the change in distances. Shims are also needed most of the time to help with the pinion angle.

So it does have to do with the angles, but more at the t-case end.

Also, there are only Heavy Duty kits for the 231 cases. 242 is Hack and Tap. Cheaper, gets the job done, but its basically a cut down shaft, drilled and taped to accept a flange. My H&T was $90, and with the driveshaft it came to around $432, if I remember correctly

Also, I was going to buy a Rusty's 4.5 kit when I was 17, but then I had a few people tell me their Rusty's products kept breaking, and then suggested RE. I'm really glad I bought the RE kit, and I am glad you have decided on the full packs, not the AAL.

I picked up some 32x11.5 BFG All-Terrains. I did notice a drop in gas mileage, but I still have a lot of power and you don't really need to regear. I do just fine without it. I did have to trim off a little bit of the bottom of the front bumper caps because they rubbed while turning on the road. Other than that I didn't have any problems fitting them even when I disconnected the sway bar. Eventually I started rubbing and ended up bending up one of my fenders. This could be fixed with more bumpstopping, the bumpstoping that came with the RE kit wasn't enough.

The usual cut off for SYE's is 3.5. Now I did drive without one for about half a year. I was fine and got used to it after a while, but I had a horrible grinding noise after I let off the gas most of the time. I could live with it, but then I decided enough was enough and I got the kit. As soon as I started driving it I was like holy sh*t. It was a completely different car, it drove so smooth and I had forgotten how nice it had driven when it was stock, and I could cruise longer without slowing down as fast with it on. I can't imagine driving without one again. I would definitely recommend it.

I understand the money problems, I'm 19 now but I started when I was your age. Just save and if you don't waist your money on worthless stuff you'll have enough.

I have had the Rusty’s 4.5” lift on my Jeep for two years now and on a recent trip I bent my trac bar. When I called Rusty’s and advised them of the problem I had they sent a new one out to me for free. Not many companies will do that no questions asked. There was a huge difference in the trac bar of two years ago and the trac bar of today. I think a lot of the bad rap the company received over these forums is from the problems people had with them a few years ago. The trac bar of today is twice as thick as the trac bar of yesterday. Not saying people have not broken any of Rusty’s new stuff, but I think they have done some work on improving what they sell.

As for the power mods they will not do much for you’re off road experience. I noticed better throttle response on the highway with the stuff I have on, but nothing while rock crawling.

Because I have an older Jeep I lucked out on not needing a SYE, but have seen a tone of people running a SYE with a front drive shaft. I would just make sure you carry a spare.

Good bumpers and sliders have saved me many, many times. I have OR-Fab, JCR, and Protofab stuff on my rig and have been nothing, but happy. I think the best way to buy these products is to get as much info as you can on your and pick want you want.

Good luck!

Mtb Jak said:

Im 17 aswell and have been wheeling since fall stock (2000 Cherokee sport, it has 29.2 inch wheels on it tho) and been doing ALOT of reading and joined the regional club here in NY, and . Im the youngest member and they are all happy becuase of the lack of legal offroad vechile acces and trails being closed becuase of the illegal activity. They think its excellent for young kids to take alot of interest in legal offroading and events.(Plus you pretty much get local contacts for when you need any help!!) I wanted to jump right in with a 3.5 SF but with all the hidden costs associated with lifting a late model XJ I decided to get the BB for now and then save money and do it all the right way. Im going with a 2 inch bb and some 31 inch longhorns (they actually measure 30 inches) and skids and a rear locker. I already got the recovery points and a recovery strapp and hi lift. Wheel stock till you feel REALLY comfortable and read join and get all the Info you need!

The need for a SYE and drive shafts and stuff make it kinda nuts for me to jump into when its still my DD and I need to for college next yr so I'll need to do it all at once so Im going with a little lift to help the itch for now!

Click to expand...

17 yrs old and a member of an 18+ club...interesting

cal said:

Well, since you asked.

Throw the rusty's trackbar away and buy another that is quality. That trackbar *will* fail; if you are lucky, it will fail on the trail and you'll just have a long walk home. If you aren't lucky, it will fail on the highway and you'll get a ride home with flashing lights. If your unlucky, someone else will be going with you.

Forget the performance kit, if you want to offroad, the 4.0 has enough power as it is - especially in the later model years; those mods give you power at the wrong RPM range anyways. It's just not the best way to spend your money .. power breaks parts.

Buy quality tires. My experiance has been BFG tires go flat, others might not say so - but either way, you do get what you pay for.

Armor goes a long way. Get some good rock rails, the JKS Supernerfs are very popular.

As a couple have said, look at what rear axle you have. If its the dana 35, you should look at replacing it. The d35 does not hold up well to bigger tires, or to lots of power .. and an 18 year old looking at 32's and performance mods will put down plenty of both. Someone here can probably post pictures of the dana 35 vs the Chrysler 8.25 for comparison. The 8.25 has a "flat" bottom where the dana 35 is very "round".

Click to expand...

x2 what cal said .


if your 17 and making less than 10 bucks an hour you dont have THAT much money, granted its all yours and you dont pay hardly any taxes or anything ... dont waste any money on hi po parts unless its replacing a broken stock part. Your seat of the pants meter wont notice any difference. I replaced my exhaust manifold when it cracked with a borla, stock muffler with flow master and new cat and 2 1/2 pipes. Woulda cost like 800 bucks or more in 2003 when i did it. Maybe $1000 or more now with no labor costs added. I didnt notice a HUUUGE difference to make it worth a grand in my book and i make good money.It does sound badass though lol. If i was a teenager i would NOT spend any money on hi perf hi po parts unless your upgrading a stock part that broke.

Your best value would be some rock rails, and transfer case skid, and gas tank skid. Gotta get the rails if nothing else to protect the value of your ride, no one gonna want to buy a used xj with smashed rockers and doors that dont open.

Next nice tires and a rear locker.

You really dont need a huge lift to have fun. If your new to wheeling you should find a club locally and see what a difference a locker vs. no locker makes, compared to what 5 inch lift and 35" make.

Plus you can still have good milage, virtually stock handling etc.

Not trying to alk you out of a lift, jsut making a recomendation since your a kid and the money isnt growing on trees.

i would do a budget boost lift with spacers and shackles befoe i bought a rustys kit.yuck.

if you want to run 31's or 32's you can do that quite cheaply, please think more about rustys

read this link 53guys write up on the flares http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=90022&highlight=53guy+flares

with some skillfull triming and some spacers you can fit 31s easy and i think 32s also should not be a problem.

also read timmays thread on bastard pack on how he swapped in s10 leaf springs.

Begster said:

I picked up some 32x11.5 BFG All-Terrains. I did notice a drop in gas mileage, but I still have a lot of power and you don't really need to regear. I do just fine without it.

Click to expand...

If you were to regear to 4.56, you would find a 15-30% increase in gas mileage - it would pay for itself in less than a year.