oxidation operation: 96 xj

Whats up everyone,

New to the forum, new to the wonderful XJ world... and I feel like I am getting jumped into a gang with my list of tasks to get this rig on/off-road ready. However, it will only really be used for play, not going to be a daily driver by any means. Found some great info so far on this forum to help with my problems but still have many questions.

The situation:

96 xj sport, 110k on the clock, solid running engine and smooth tranny. got it for 300 bucks. The floors are rusted out pretty badly (see pics below), hence the low price. So far we have used 20-22g sheet metal to patch the largest of the holes, and almost have it ready to receive tigerhair/undercoated to seal it up.

The questions:

We have this metal riveted in place. Holds strong. I only have access to an arc welder, and was wondering if you can weld metal that is that thin. this would just be to reinforce the rivets. keep in mind I have already considered structural integrity of whole sha-bang, and I am planning on having some frame reinforcement done (frame is actually quite solid) as soon as we get these holes patched.


Inspection questions:

Will the fixes above earn me a sticker (I live in Pa). I am confident they will be satisfied with the degree of exhaust protection, really curious if they consider the thickness or replacement floor material.

THE RUST!
back left




back right



front left



front right



backseat right


Backseat left
(looked slightly less painful than backseat right, here is the action photo!)



What we have done so far





looked the same after it was riveted in place.


backseat left patched


The rear end has been troublesome, and I still have one set of holes to patch (no photos yet).

Thoughts/Tips? ALso the whole floor will be cleaned with a grinder (lightly) to remove all surface rust before sealing it up (inside and out).

SMAW (shielded metal arc welding or "stick") would not be very good for the thin sheet metal. you would be better off with a 110v mig (not gas-less) or even 220v. ive tried to weld up some DOM tube with my buzz box and it wasnt pretty. i was burning holes into it as i was trying to weld.

how do you make your own post?

how do you make your own post on this ?

thanks for the insight stewie. there is pretty good overlap between the sheet metal and the remaining floor pan. i don't suppose this would make any difference, though.

Looking over the photos, I have this feedback.

You need:
* a welder.
* heavier guage steel
* to weld the replacement panels to the frame and to the remaining sheetmetal.

More importantly, you need to seriously inspect the frame. If all the pans are this badly deteriorated, the structural integrity of the whole unit is in question.

Ron

why does it have to be welded? how heavy a gauge are we talking? there is a local place that sells pans for 70 a piece (19 ga), but its a little late to change the whole game plan. access to prof. welding materials wasn't really an option when I started all this.

as for the structural integrity, we went over the frame quite a bit and for its purpose, she should hold up just fine.

This is not a framed vehicle. The body is the frame, the runners under the body are the subframe and were welded to the floors to make it all one piece. The floor sheet metal should be of the same gage as the original piece.

Rivets work for small rust hole patches. You are replacing entire floor pans, front, rear, and the cargo area. A daunting task to be sure.
I'm not making fun of the situation. Resurection of an XJ from the condition you found that one in is rare. To get back the structural integrity, you'll have to do it correctly.

Ron

I didn't really plan on doing a full restoration: it was 300 bucks, i could run it for 3 years and then part it out and come out on top. However, I would like to make this thing my baby for as long as I live anywhere that it snows.

I think I will stick with the rivet job and maybe try some spot welding later on. Perhaps, if the rest of her holds out, we can do a legit fix in two years when I have improved my fab. skills from what I have read, the jeep community run the gambit as far as legit and improvised rust hole fixes. i am sure what I am doing is old-hat.

shucks now you got me thinking. i really only need to replace the front two pans. 140 bucks may be worth the trouble if i would never have to do it again. about how much welding time are we talking, and could this be done by arc welding?

thinking more about how I laid the sheet metal across the frame in the front. there is a large amount of overlap (about 70 percent) of the two 22 ga sheets that are riveted into place on both the passenger and drivers side. they overlap exactly over the frame: Couldn't I weld these to the frame without having to worry too much about burn through?

This is doable. It is possible to weld sheet metal with a stick, but you need some experience doing it. I wouldn't recommend trying this on the rig the first time.

First you need to drill through the top sheet metal but not the bottom. Then you use 1/8" 6011 rod and learn to weld it "improperly". You normally keep the rod tip close to the work to get good penetration. But here you don't want to do that. Keep a long arc and sort of splatter it on in the holes you drill. This will make a spot weld, which is how the whole rig is put together anyway. Now before any of you welding experts climb all over me, I was taught this by a ship wright while I was a mill wright. We put a whole pellet mill together this way because that is all they would give us to work with.

i think i see what your getting at. drilling through the first piece is sufficient because the sheets are thin, and the weld will penetrate through the second onto the frame? or are we just talking about welding the two sheets together?

To the frame, or to underlying sheet metal. If you are not welding edges, it takes longer to burn through the sheet metal. Gives you a few seconds leeway.

I see. Thanks for the insight! I think we can pull that off. There are a few cm (1-2) along the edges, either above or between rivets. I need be, I can slide some more sheet under it (0.5cm) and use those to make a thicker substrate, then spot weld all the way around. that sounds like a terrible idea once i typed it

Good or bad, it would take quite a long time to get around each of our 4 patches, would this be worth it?

It is your rig. But I can tell you that with normal body flexing those pop rivets will eventually work loose. The idea is that these floor pieces give your unibody strength as well as aesthetics. If it was me, I would be welding them.

What about reinforcing the rivets with welds (every inch or so)? I figured they would work loose with time, but I wasn't sure how long. Days? Months? Years?

That is the plan. Use the rivets to hold everything in place while you weld.

don't forget that the existing rust will continue to spread like cancer, unless you cut it ALL out and then make your patch, then SEAL it all up both sides, your patches will rot out VERY quickly...

You can also treat it with POR 15. Check their web site for details.