Bought an XJ, working through some problems and could use a hand

I bought a 5spd 97 Sport for cheap. It has 116,000 miles on it. This is my first Cherokee. The previous owner changed the oil at regular intervals and that was about it. It had severe death wobble and it doesn't shift all that well.

So here is what I've replaced (most of it came as a kit):

• 2 Lower Ball Joints.
• 2 Upper Ball Joints.
• 2 Front Sway Bar End Links.
• 1 Inner Tie Rod End (Right).
• 1 Inner Tie Rod End (Left-at Pitman Arm).
• 1 Adjusting Sleeve (At Pitman Arm).
• 1 Outer Tie Rod End (Right-22 mm thread - connecting).
• 1 Outer Tie Rod End (Left).
• Both front hub / wheel bearings assemblies
• New steering stabilizer
• 2 new U-Joints
• Front wheel alignment
  

So, after all that (better part of three days) I jumped in and expected a fairly tight feel but that wasn't the case. There was still a lot of clunking up front which I later discovered was the shock mounts. I tightened those up and now I'm down to a vibration above 50 mph and a "wuh wuh wuh wuh wuh" noise at any speed. I was wondering if the U-joints were not "seated" and so I put it in 4x4 and did a few u-turns on gravel which did NOT feel that smooth but afterwards it did seem to reduce the high-way speed vibration ever so slightly (but the noise remains). So... I threw the rear tires on the front thinking they were out of balance... no difference.

So now I'm wondering if the carrier bearings are bad in the front or what. When I got the Jeep, both front U-Joints were totally shot. I'm wondering if the previous owner drove it in 4x4 on dry pavement and perhaps the front axle isn't happy? The front end was so bad I can't believe he just "let it go" and drove it like that. Half of the joints I replaced were shot.

Because of how seized into the axle the old U-Joints were I employed the BFH and big socket trick on my vice to whack the old ones out. Is there any chance I bent the axle? I notice oil coming from the drivers side front axle so I probably ruined the axle seal when putting that axle back in.

As far as shifting goes, the clutch engages pretty close to the floor. Reverse always grinds except for very rare occasions after driving for a while and I put it in 4th before shifting into reverse. The engagement occasionally chatters when starting out in first, and the clutch squeaks near the slave cylinder. I'm thinking it's a hydraulic problem.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

pics: http://picasaweb.google.com/nagrover/Jeep

Alright, first things first, reverse grinding is a 'feature' of the transmission. What it comes down to is there are components in there which are spinning while in neutral (cant remember the official name, sure someone will chime in eventually with them). If you briefly put the transmission into first gear before shifting into reverse the grind should go away. I always had to do that and never had any issues. Putting it into first (which is sync'ed) will cause any spinning gears/etc in there to stop spinning w/o grinding, then you can cleanly go into reverse.

Second, for the "wuh wuh wuh" sound, I would check the 4wd hubs. Jack up one side of the axle and see if you have any play in the wheel/tire. Vertical movement would mean ball joints are shot (which you replaced), horizontal/vertical movement would indicate bad hubs. My hubs were shot and I had the same type of sound. The somewhat rough ride, plus poor 4wd behavior, plus sound all point towards hubs from my own experience. Replacing my hubs made the ride much smoother, got rid of the noise, and improved fuel economy (noticeably).

If you are replacing hubs (from the sounds of all the other stuff that needed replacing, I would say the hubs do need replacing.. plus you are at about the mileage i would expect to need to replace them) be sure to shop around. I did mine a couple years ago and got the Timkin hubs from autozone for $150 each I think. I believe my buddy picked up a couple last year (same Timkin units) from NAPA for 75$ each. Check out all the local shops, even if you have to drive a bit further to get them it may be very much worth it.

Edit: nevermind about hubs, saw that you replaced them while I was looking through your photo album. (I stopped reading your list of fixes after the bold items ended :doh:

Thanks for the reply

I replaced the hub/bearing assemblies on both sides.

As for grinding in reverse, it will grind 99% of the time even if I put it in another gear first. It will ALWAYS grind into reverse right after I start it up no matter what gear I put it in first. Only rarely after driving for some time in traffic it will not grind.

Drain your transmission fluid and replace. See if that helps at all. Mine was smoother once I did a full drain/fluid flush when i replaced my clutch.

Also check your clutch fluid, if eit seems to disengage the clutch close to the floor your fluid may be old/burnt and have absorbed a bunch of water. Do a full clutch flush with fresh fluid (be sure its not fluid that was sitting on a shelf in the garage... spend the couple extra dollars for some new fresh stuff)

Wow, you really go right to work.

You should probably change the trans fluid. The AX15 originally specified GL-3, but that is hard to find anymore. GL-5, what you will most likely find in most stores, will eat yellow metal--the synchros in your trans are yellow metal. Some here highly recommend MT90 by Redline; I use Mobil-1 10w30; there is a Pennzoil product, syncromesh, that is safe for yellow metals, and the dealer will sell you a product that is essentially 10w30 oil for a slightly inflated price. You will see products in the chain stores that say GL-3/GL-4/GL-5--don't use it unless it says YELLOW METAL SAFE on it.

If your shifter is worn a replacement from the dealer is about $300, so a salvage yard is your best bet. There are aftermarket shifters that are close ratio shifters, I have one and like it for the positive shifting. There is a small nylon(?) "cap" on the end of the shifter, if that is broken or worn down it will make things worse.

The D30 axle seals are inside next to the carrier, not at the ends of the axles. If you pull an axle without draining the gear oil, well, there will be a bit of gear lube running down the tubes. While you must be careful when removing and reinstalling the axles, I would give it a little time to run out of the tube before going after replacing the seals. Do check the fluid level, and you should keep an eye on it, but give it a little time.

As for the clutch, you have checked the fluid level?

The wuh wuh wuh--what type of tires are you running?

joe_peters said:

Wow, you really go right to work.

You should probably change the trans fluid. The AX15 originally specified GL-3, but that is hard to find anymore. GL-5, what you will most likely find in most stores, will eat yellow metal--the synchros in your trans are yellow metal.

Click to expand...

Hmmmm, makes me wonder what I used :banghead: Never seemed to give me any trouble after doing a transmission fluid flush, but still, not sure what I ended up getting.

Tires were replaced by previous owner fairly recently. I can't even remember what they are off hand so I posted the pic above.

Thanks for the tips on the trans oil. I haven't changed it yet but was planning to. Did I buy the wrong oil? It is a penzoil synthetic GL4



As for the "wuh wuh wuh wuh" I have a feeling this is axle related. Either the carrier bearings are bad (? not sure what the symptoms are) or an axle is bent. I'm going to verify the alignment with a tape measure but I doubt that is a problem as I just had it done by a shop. Before I do anything in the axle I'll have the tires balanced... but again I doubt that is the problem as they are fairly new and I tried rotating rear to front.

Good tip:
"I would give it a little time to run out of the tube before going after replacing the seals."

Am I an idiot for jacking the front up this way? This is my first solid axle vehicle I hope no damage can be done by doing so. I should have checked the bearings in there while I was at it.

themangeraaad said:

Second, for the "wuh wuh wuh" sound, I would check the 4wd hubs. Jack up one side of the axle and see if you have any play in the wheel/tire. Vertical movement would mean ball joints are shot (which you replaced), horizontal/vertical movement would indicate bad hubs. My hubs were shot and I had the same type of sound. The somewhat rough ride, plus poor 4wd behavior, plus sound all point towards hubs from my own experience. Replacing my hubs made the ride much smoother, got rid of the noise, and improved fuel economy (noticeably).

If you are replacing hubs (from the sounds of all the other stuff that needed replacing, I would say the hubs do need replacing.. plus you are at about the mileage i would expect to need to replace them) be sure to shop around. I did mine a couple years ago and got the Timkin hubs from autozone for $150 each I think. I believe my buddy picked up a couple last year (same Timkin units) from NAPA for 75$ each. Check out all the local shops, even if you have to drive a bit further to get them it may be very much worth it.

Click to expand...

Sounds like I need to replace my front hubs, when I go over slowly over bumps it feels like my passenger tire is going to fall off it also happens when I turn sometimes...

You've supported the vehicle just fine. I guess the noise could be the carrier bearings, but with your sorta low mileage, it doesn't seem likely. If you do the bearings, also do the seals. There's an excellent article on here about it. Looking at your photo, I see an old track bar. It is a major contributor to front end problems. Check it, and if it's anything less than perfect, replace it with a Moog if you can. Get it all buttoned up soon, winter is coming!
[Tech Writeup] Replacing the seals on your Dana 30

Take the GL-4 back and get something else, Penz Synchromesh, synthetic 10w30, or MT 90 if you have a Redline dealer in the hood.

Nice looking ride!

No problem on where your jackstand is setting.

XJ Buddy said:

Sounds like I need to replace my front hubs, when I go over slowly over bumps it feels like my passenger tire is going to fall off it also happens when I turn sometimes...

Click to expand...

Just do it, its a great investment. If you shop around enough you can find good parts for cheap money (will still cost in the 200$ range probably, but its worth it). I mean first things first: its a safety thing, second: fuel economy will improve leading to savings, third:you wont wear down tires as fast so thats eventual savings.

If you havent yet check out everything mentioned above, particularly ball joints and hubs. After that check out all the tie rod ends. For all of that you will be spending in the 350-500$ range but it can really improve the ride. I put doing mine off as long as I could (until I failed inspection for it) and then I did them and wished I had all along.

I bought a kit for most of my front-end stuff. I buy these kits from the same place for all my vehicles. They are quality parts with grease fittings and for under $200 it's a great value. It certainly beats replacing the parts one by one and having to tear apart the front end over and over.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350238771127&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME%3AL%3ACOSI%3AUS%3A1123



... I just have to figure out my front end vibration and "wuh wuh wuh" noise!

ngrover said:

... I just have to figure out my front end vibration and "wuh wuh wuh" noise!

Click to expand...

As much as the sound is PROBABLY a front end issue... don't narrow yourself down too much. I have run into issues that sounded like it was from the front end, or the rear end (etc etc) but it ended up being something completely different.

ngrover said:

I bought a kit for most of my front-end stuff. I buy these kits from the same place for all my vehicles. They are quality parts with grease fittings and for under $200 it's a great value. It certainly beats replacing the parts one by one and having to tear apart the front end over and over.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...1127&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME:L:COSI:US:1123



... I just have to figure out my front end vibration and "wuh wuh wuh" noise!

Click to expand...

I bought my ZJ steering setup from the same guy. Good deals to be had.

Aight took it for a rip at lunch.

I found that when I came to a red light and if I pumped the clutch slowly about 5 or 6 times then it would shift much smoother when the light turned green. I'm convinced this is a hydraulic issue. Either the slave or master cylinder is probably leaking oil past the rod when pushing the pedal in. It's probably the slave but I might just get one of those pre-bled master/slave combo kits (after I change the trans oil).

Anyone know where to find a master / cylinder slave kit for a good price?

I got a master from autozone... and it didnt fix my problem that was similar to yours.

Before you go start spending all the money just bleed out all your old fluid and give it a good bleeding with new fluid. I had a similar issue and ended up replacing the master and it did little to no good. A bottle of fresh fluid worked wonders. If the clutch fluid hasn't been changed in ages thats probably your issue.


Not to mention if you have to drop the transmission to get at the slave cylinder. I dont remember which years the slave was external to the housing.. If you don't know when the clutch was last done (if ever) and you do end up replacing the slave cylinder... I would just do the clutch at the same time. Its more expensive but if you are doing the work yourself and have to drop the tranny anyway, might as well get it done.

Thanks themangeraaad. I will try bleeding the clutch first. Good idea.

The slave on mine is external. I took it out last weekend just to have a look at it (didn't notice anything abnormal). But it's not like you can rule anything out just by looking at them.

themangeraaad said:

I got a master from autozone... and it didnt fix my problem that was similar to yours.

Before you go start spending all the money just bleed out all your old fluid and give it a good bleeding with new fluid. I had a similar issue and ended up replacing the master and it did little to no good. A bottle of fresh fluid worked wonders. If the clutch fluid hasn't been changed in ages thats probably your issue.


Not to mention if you have to drop the transmission to get at the slave cylinder. I dont remember which years the slave was external to the housing.. If you don't know when the clutch was last done (if ever) and you do end up replacing the slave cylinder... I would just do the clutch at the same time. Its more expensive but if you are doing the work yourself and have to drop the tranny anyway, might as well get it done.

Click to expand...

x2, don't just bleed it, give it a full flush with fresh fluid. Try not to bottom out the pedal while doing it, tends to damage the piston seals in my experience.

If you do a full bleed and still got problems, shoot me a PM. Like I said I changed my master and it didnt change anything (I used off the garage shelf fluid when i filled it and bled so I was putting more old crap in there).

I may have a spare master kicking around still that I can ship up to you.. have to look around to see if it got junked or destroyed. haha