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Your Oil Recomendation

Ecomike said:
Note that you said "IF you get the right oil"! I have yet find such a product, LOL!:bawl: :laugh3:

Obviously you have not read my threads here on "Snake OIL" products! Try the advanced search in the OEM thread, use Ecomike as the author and "Snake OIL" as the search words. I for one am quite impressed with Restore. Be sure and read about the Ford Taurus I used Restore on 6000 miles ago. It even pasted the EPA gestopo tests last week!

That said, you are right, a good engine with no problems, should not need oil additives except for this ZDDP problem with our older flat tappet engines, and STP blue is mostly ZDDP and some oil carrier.
Click to expand...
Youre right, I haven't read them... And just to be clear, I'm not saying they are all "bad" just that they have had to defend themselves a time or more against unhappy customers who claim that they are untruthful. And some have lost the complaints and had to pay out for false advertising. I used restore once in an old car when it first came out, and I was happy with it. I didn't know much then, but it seemed to help, and it didn't blow my motor up. LOL none of them are gonna blow up your motor, I'd just rather save my money for gas. LOL
 
Ran M1 10-30 full synth for 50K, switched to royal purple 10-40 for the past 70K, about to switch to Amsoil 10-40 (AMO). After reading all 11 pages, there still will never be a consensus on which is the best oil. I couldn't find any data sheets on Royal Purple as it pertains to zddp levels. Would switching to Amsoil 10-40 (AMO) be any better than Royal Purple? 172K on it, the only ticking I hear are the injectors.
 
GreenXJ2K, you should look into Amsoil a bit more before jumping into that pool. From what I've read, it's snake oil that sells based on word of mouth-- but that word of mouth is created by what is virtually a pyramid scheme. There are standards that it doesn't meet, and they claim it's because it costs too much-- what does that tell you? And also keep in mind that every test you see showing Amsoil to be the best is from Amsoil themselves.
 
Here is a press release from Amsoil.

Amsoil do NOT produce or market oil additives and do not wish to be associated with oil additives. They are a formulator of synthetic lubricants for automotive and industrial applications and have been in business for 30+ years. They are not a half-hour infomercial or fly-by-night product, nor have they ever been involved in a legal suit regarding their product claims in that 30+ year span. Many Amsoil products are API certified, and ALL of our products meet and in most cases exceed the specifications of ILSAC, AGMA etc..... Their lubricants also exceed manufacturers specifications and Amsoil are on many manufacturers approval lists. They base their claims on ASTM certified tests and are very open to anyone, with nothing to hide.

They further state on their website:

AMSOIL- "Our Company makes the Best Lubricants in the world, period, and challenges anyone or any company to prove us wrong! That won't happen because our competitors know it's true."

FWIW there are no complaints against amsoil by the FTC either...
 
"Many Amsoil products are API certified"

Enough said. A lot of people buy it because word of mouth tells them it's the best, blah blah. When in reality their products don't meet all the certifications that their competitors do. In at least one instance, a dealer has refused to cover engine damage under warranty because the customer used Amsoil. Amsoil left the guy high and dry rather than standing by their product.

Think about it... There is a reason Amsoil uses "multi level marketing" rather than sell in stores.

Multi Level Marketing:
http://www.falseprofits.com/MLM%20Lies.html

A lot of posts here about API certification. Only 5 of Amsoil's products are:
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/279903-regular-oil-vs-synthetic.html

Here is an interesting but long thread http://www.dodgedakotas.com/boards/ot/6931.html
Notice how the Amsoil fans/sellers post BS like "Mobil 1 is not API certified" and generally act like a cult.


Amsoil is in the same league as K&N. An inferior product that depends on reputation and word of mouth, with a cultish following that refuses to listen to reason and facts. You can almost see them covering their ears and saying "lalalalalala" when they read something negative about their favorite products on the interwebs.
 
Look at what Amsoil says about the API certification. Pretty bizarre how they say they don't get the API cert because it's a "minimum" standard, and that they exceed that minimum. How the hell does that make sense?

http://www.oilsandlube.com/amsoil_api_licensing.htm

"AMSOIL INC. takes pride in never having conformed to industry norms or standards when those standards are contrary to peak performance."

Uhh.... Wait, so they meet the API spec, even though that spec is contrary to peak performance, yet at the same time they do not conform to that spec?
 
winkosmosis said:
Look at what Amsoil says about the API certification. Pretty bizarre how they say they don't get the API cert because it's a "minimum" standard, and that they exceed that minimum. How the hell does that make sense?
Click to expand...
Because, as in the case with ZDDP, for them to get certified, they would have to reduce the amount of ZDDP and reduce the quality of their product to meet that "standard"

I don't use Amsoil, and don't really plan to, as I am a Lucas guy, but I do respect them and their products, and have NEVER heard anyone (even you) say FROM EXPERIENCE that their products are junk... Some of their stuff is certified, and some of their stuff that they prefer to not reduce the quality of is not certified. If guys don't like them for that, I understand, but to say they are snake oil is just not taking the time to pay attention to what really IS snake oil, and what the difference is.
 
falcon556 said:
If so, you solved my problem. The blue STP is dirt cheap and easy to find.
Thanks.
Click to expand...

I got that information first hand over the phone from either a chemist or the sales manager at STP.
 
So I did some looking around locally to see what oils I can pick up. I found the quantity of zinc in most of them but there's a few that I couldn't. Does anyone have any idea as to the PPM count of the following:

Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40
Valvoline Premium Blue Extreme 5W-40
Pennzoil Long Life 15W-40
Quaker State Universal HDX 15W-40

and finally, the Wal-Mart SuperTech Diesel 15W-40

I know I can call each manufacturer via the MSDS sheets but I figured I'd check here first.
 
I wrote to Valvoline with the following question;

1989 Jeep Comanche 4.0 with 100k miles. Looking for a good oil that contains enough zddp.
________________________________________________________
Valvoline replied;

All Valvoline oils will contain enough ZDDP for this application, as high ZDDP is not required for a 1989 Jeep Comanche. All of our Valvoline products are suitable for use in this vehicle.
________________________________________________________
I replied;

I have been told that my unit has flat tappets and should have at least 1200 ppm.
________________________________________________________
Valvoline replied;

From: [email protected]

Date: October 29, 2008 11:53:21 AM EDT

The 1200 ppm of Zinc is something that would be required for a high performance racing engine with an oversize cam application. Not sure who is supplying this information to you, but any stock flat tappet cam application, only requires around 800 ppm of Zinc for protection and approximately 730 ppm of Phosphorus, as Zinc itself will not serve the purpose. If you would like to use the highest Zinc content product we have, that would be our Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil, with 1300 ppm of Zinc and 1200 ppm of Phosphorus.
 
Usually the people I see recommending amsoil are also the ones who happen to be selling it on the side.

/my experience.
 
bgred2 said:
I wrote to Valvoline with the following question;

1989 Jeep Comanche 4.0 with 100k miles. Looking for a good oil that contains enough zddp.
________________________________________________________
Valvoline replied;

All Valvoline oils will contain enough ZDDP for this application, as high ZDDP is not required for a 1989 Jeep Comanche. All of our Valvoline products are suitable for use in this vehicle.
________________________________________________________
I replied;

I have been told that my unit has flat tappets and should have at least 1200 ppm.
________________________________________________________
Valvoline replied;

From: [email protected]

Date: October 29, 2008 11:53:21 AM EDT

The 1200 ppm of Zinc is something that would be required for a high performance racing engine with an oversize cam application. Not sure who is supplying this information to you, but any stock flat tappet cam application, only requires around 800 ppm of Zinc for protection and approximately 730 ppm of Phosphorus, as Zinc itself will not serve the purpose. If you would like to use the highest Zinc content product we have, that would be our Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil, with 1300 ppm of Zinc and 1200 ppm of Phosphorus.
Click to expand...

Doesn't sound like you got the right person, with the right knowledge for your answers, but it was interesting to read what they said.

What they failed to say is that ZDDP is part zinc and part phosphorous. There are several different ZDDPs with different ratios of zinc to phophorous in the ZDDP molecule. 1200 ppm of ZDDP is what you want. 1200 ppm of ZDDP is not 1200 ppm of zinc, or 1200 ppm of phosphorous.

I know this can sound confusing if you don't have the chemistry education, but think of it this way. Say you have 1 lb of ZDDP, 100% ZDDP, and lets say for argument (random value) that it is 45% zinc, then it is .45 lbs of zinc, not 1 lb of zinc.

The labels frequently list the zinc content as a ppm level of zinc as ZDDP, that lets them sort of lie or cheat playing with words by saying it 1200 ppm of zinc as ZDDP (which is also about 700 ppm of just zinc, or elemental zinc).

But keep in mind that just zinc or phosphorous is not the whole story, as the phosphorous can be non zinc phosphorous as detergents with no zinc, and the zinc as ZDDP is what protects the flat tappets and cams, not the detergent (non zinc) phosphorous.

So about 800 ppm of elemental zinc that is ZDDP zinc is the same as 1200 ppm of zinc as ZDDP.
 
I've taken about 3 hours this morning to write every major oil mfg. I've described this thread and asked them specifically for both their recommendation and the ZDDP content in PPM. We'll see what happens.
 
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