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XJ frame stiffeners

MaXJohnson said:
IMO,this would provide excellent protection for rock damage to your uni-rails, but marginal increase in chassis strength.

YMMV
Click to expand...

Theory VS Real World Experience?

BTW.....this thread is worthless without more pictures!
 
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XJEEPER said:
"Originally Posted by MaXJohnson IMO,this would provide excellent protection for rock damage to your uni-rails, but marginal increase in chassis strength. YMMV"

Theory VS Real World Experience?
Click to expand...


"IMO" acronymically speaking, translates to "In My opinion". In this case, my opinion based on theory. The design of every aspect of your Jeep, down to the smallest detail, was based on theory. "YMMV" or "Your Mileage May Vary" acknowledges my view may not hold true for all cases and variations in design.

In the case of the T&J chassis stiffeners, I believe their main design goal was to strengthen the front suspension control arm mounts by spreading the load further back into the chassis. The purpose of this is to resist impact loads on the control arm pickup points. The benefit of this to a JeepSpeed racer should be obvious. Many of the comments in this thread relate to increases to the beam strength of the frame rails and overall torsional stiffeness. I would argue that improvements in these areas are minimal.

For "Real World Experience", AKA "the Butt Dyno", there are several responses in this thread claiming dramatic improvement in ride and handling, including less body roll (?) when cornering and a softer ride (?).

IMO, Butt Dyno's have a high degree of error.
YMMV
 
agreed, butt dynos have high rates of error. but when something works, it works.

i got those tandj stiffeners a while back before i started making my own stuff. they do work and you will see (and feel:)) a difference.

however, if you can make them, do. as they are pretty pricey.

finally, as well as the stiffeners work, they could be better. i am planning on making rock rails that tie into them and then creating at least one cross member to tie them together. i also plan on tieing them to my front and rear bumpers in a pseudo-exo cage type thing. the stiffeners alone have reduced a lot of flex in the unibody, but i feel that with this arrangement, i will be rock solid!

just my .02

dan f.
 
That picture of the rear is a sweet setup. Full length tubes with numerous tie-ins to the existing rails as well as to the roll cage, extra cross members & diagonal bracing. An E-ticket ride for sure.
 
MaXJohnson said:
"IMO" acronymically speaking, translates to "In My opinion". In this case, my opinion based on theory. The design of every aspect of your Jeep, down to the smallest detail, was based on theory. "YMMV" or "Your Mileage May Vary" acknowledges my view may not hold true for all cases and variations in design.

In the case of the T&J chassis stiffeners, I believe their main design goal was to strengthen the front suspension control arm mounts by spreading the load further back into the chassis. The purpose of this is to resist impact loads on the control arm pickup points. The benefit of this to a JeepSpeed racer should be obvious. Many of the comments in this thread relate to increases to the beam strength of the frame rails and overall torsional stiffeness. I would argue that improvements in these areas are minimal.

For "Real World Experience", AKA "the Butt Dyno", there are several responses in this thread claiming dramatic improvement in ride and handling, including less body roll (?) when cornering and a softer ride (?).

IMO, Butt Dyno's have a high degree of error.
YMMV
Click to expand...

What does "marginal" or "minimal" refer to? A percentage of improvement or change that you've measured? IMO, before one shares an opinion on a mod, it's best to have some first hand knowledge to base the opinion on. Without that, the opinion offered is without merit.
The Butt Dyno has a margin of error .....theory and speculation have a margin of error as well, both can be substantiated or disproved through real world testing. I'll take a Butt Dyno'd opinion over web wheeler theory anyday......YMMV.

When someone asks for an opinion, why confuse them with theory and speculation when there are many who have performed the mod and can share their real feedback?
My Mileage Does Vary.....that would be MMDV :D
 
XJEEPER said:
What does "marginal" or "minimal" refer to?
Click to expand...
On T&J's website, they claim their chassis stiffeners: "Dramatically increases frame rigidity". I don't believe that statement. In my context, marginal is the opposite of dramatic. Marginal and minimal refer to my accepting the fact that T&J's chassis stiffeners do add some strength, but only a small percentage of what is implied. What is a small percentage, you ask: how about 10% to 20% (my opinion). Once again, I think these stiffeners would help strengthen the front control arms mounts(my opinion again :) )


XJEEPER said:
... there are many who have performed the mod and can share their real feedback?
Click to expand...
I count one guy in this thread who actually owns T&J chassis stiffeners and one other with home built copies. Both seem to feel they make a difference, but in defiance of your rules, no measurements are provided. Three others have plated their frames with angle iron and seem to think that makes a difference as well. Again, no measurements are provided. Richards response, as usual, is probably the most informative with some opinions on the subject and information on his own mods and the degree they reduced movement between door and body structure. Not exactly a measurement, but revealing non the less.


XJEEPER said:
When someone asks for an opinion, why confuse them with theory ...
Click to expand...
I chuckle every time I read that line. You're welcome to ignore theory and get sucked up into the world of the Butt Dyno. I'm willing to consider both and will continue to offer theory and my opinion. That's what forums are all about.
 
MaXJohnson said:
On T&J's website, they claim their chassis stiffeners: "Dramatically increases frame rigidity". I don't believe that statement. In my context, marginal is the opposite of dramatic. Marginal and minimal refer to my accepting the fact that T&J's chassis stiffeners do add some strength, but only a small percentage of what is implied. What is a small percentage, you ask: how about 10% to 20% (my opinion). Once again, I think these stiffeners would help strengthen the front control arms mounts(my opinion again :) )



I count one guy in this thread who actually owns T&J chassis stiffeners and one other with home built copies. Both seem to feel they make a difference, but in defiance of your rules, no measurements are provided. Three others have plated their frames with angle iron and seem to think that makes a difference as well. Again, no measurements are provided. Richards response, as usual, is probably the most informative with some opinions on the subject and information on his own mods and the degree they reduced movement between door and body structure. Not exactly a measurement, but revealing non the less.



I chuckle every time I read that line. You're welcome to ignore theory and get sucked up into the world of the Butt Dyno. I'm willing to consider both and will continue to offer theory and my opinion. That's what forums are all about.
Click to expand...

So 10-20% isn't enough of an improvement to be worth the mod?

If someone offered you 10-20% of $1,000,000.00, would you take it? How about a 10-20% increase in fuel economy? ;)

What % equals dramatic? I know, I know.....IYO.

I'm not ignoring theory, it's the basis for anything ever created. Everything I've fabbed started out as theory. As you've pointed out, without actual measured results, the most credible sources of opinion are those that have actually applied their theories. You've done a fine job qualifying your opinion. IMO, I'll rate it as marginal........and don't worry about me getting sucked into anything that even remotely resembles a butt.......... :laugh:
 
2offroad said:
what drug this back up?
Click to expand...


Beats me, but while we're there...

I'd wonder where all the deflected energy is sent.

If it's dispersed from the LCA brackets to the unirails through 'stiffening,' does the stiffeners become the shunt?

Or does the otherwise stock body/frame crack up like a yummy lobster's shell, sooner rather than later?

Not that it matters, XJ bodies are disposable.
 
woody said:
Beats me, but while we're there...

I'd wonder where all the deflected energy is sent.
Click to expand...

with a tinfoil hat, the deflected energy shouldn't be a problem
 
Is it possble to make an XJ chassis too stiff? I realize that while a less stiff chassis will flex more and may be more desirable in that regard it could also mean that the metal will become fatigued and crack or break.

I did like the combination rock rail/unibody stiffener. Now I'm hating that I've already got some serious rock rails installed. I guess I could make up for that with a proper rollcage and a little welding on the unibody though.

Robert
 
Jeepspeed & "Rockspeed"= what...maybe 3mph, are 2 different things all
together. Jeepspeed offers a pcs of tube you weld to your unibody and bolt
to existing connections and thats it......for $295.00 plus shipping......Its a pcs
of round tubing, and thats it......if your doin rock & not sand at high speeds..
..its 2 different worlds, rocker gaurds are'nt even considered with that
configuration........If your into rocks & wheelin...take a second look at the
product offered by Detoursusa.com , I've seen and have drivin XJ's with this
product on the XJ and it works beyond well, I've heard comments like "That
thing did'nt creak at all" goin over that obstical......and that was the bolt on
version I was driving! Basically, its a damn good part which includes rock rails
for just a few bucks more than the T&J part........plus, they were installed
without using a jack or lifting any part of my Jeep, in my driveway! Side by
side construction/installation which runs parallel with the unibody also
offers additional protection to the unibody itself!!

Worth checkin out!!! :greensmok
 
i cant tell from the pics...do those cover teh side and bottom of the frame?, or all three sides?


is sleeving(outer) the uni with tubing cut in half basically the same?

i was thinking of welding a set of rocker guards up to the side of the sleeved "frame" and running some tubes across the inner part of the frame , like an X(not sure if it would fit). rocker guards would be bolted full length to the pintch seam and connected to the rear leaf mounting bolt/pocket. someone's already done this im sure

someone needs to make a laser cut and formed stiffener that fits the unibody up tight, is welded on, and is full length.

I think one main thing with chassis stiffening is connecting and beefing up all suspension mounts, aside from a full cage.
 
Gym_Floor said:
I'm new here and I just registered just to help you guys out, I found a page to get Jeep Cherokee stiffeners for your subframe. I got them on my Jeep and love them. Here's the site: http://www.tandjperformance.com/products-bpp.htm
Hope this helps
Click to expand...
Thanks for going through the trouble of registering to let us know about something we've known about for years.
If you'd have checked NAXJA first, you could have probably found a better deal than you got from T&J.
No offense......
 
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