Rustys Long Arms - another breakage

[XJEEPER]

I'm posting this mainly for those who are new to the XJ modifying game and haven't been around for the last 5 years to see this stuff happen firsthand........:soapbox:

I don't like to Hasta but as many times as I've seen Rusty's junk break on the trail, in the driveway or on the trailer.......why do folks still purchase his crap? He's had the same problem for years, so he's not learning from his engineering mistakes, giving me the impression that he just doesn't care.

I really don't think that pretending to be a nice guy makes up for this, I wouldn't run his stuff if I got it for free and he threw in a nice steak dinner for 2.......given some time, both will wind up resembling the other. And is he really that nice of a guy if he turns out crap, and after his junk breaks, suggests that you upgrade it at YOUR cost with the HD components that he should have used in the first place? :banghead: Come on folks, this is easy math!!

XJoachim, I would press for a full refund AND stop selling his stuff AND return any Rusty's inventory you have on hand for a full refund.

These components are not that difficult to build right the first time, many of us build higher quality stuff in our own garage, and the reason Rusty's stuff is cheaper than RE and Curries is because it's built cheaper. :twak:

Choose wisely where you decide to spend your hard earned cash, and weigh the risks that are associated with your purchase decision.

 

[flexj]

I just cut the end off of one of my Rusty's LA uppers and was suprised to find it was only 3/16 wall. I specifically remember him telling me that they were 1/4. I guess I shouldn't be suprised that he lied. I can't count how many times UPS "lost" my shipment.

 

[ashmanjeepxj]

The link broke...

It looks cheap and easy to repair, a 20min job...
Go thicker or sleve that joint next time, or replace with with a strong Rod end.

I wouldent put rustys long arms under my rig, but my rig is Huge compared to a normal 6in lifted Xj with a d30 front and 35s...

 

[Redcbr007]

3/16 wall isnt bad thickness for a Upper LA. But if he told you 1/4, that would be the problem ...


-Red

Off Road Soup
www.JPFabrication.com/Forum

 

[Jaysheep]

When you see a piece of metal break perfectly ONLY AROUND THE WELD, what exactly do you call it, a good weld? Do you commonly try to weld two different thickness metals and not over-heat the thinner material?

I wont argue the fact that 2link radius arm (the ultimate suspension BTW) bind transmitted into these wimpy and improperly welded bushings may have caused the failure, but the poor workmanship created the weak spot.



-jb

You tard, my point wasn't that rusty's junk is the best, my point was that you are using something that was intended for something else. If every company refunded every redneck that thought he new how to bulid a better suspenison and then just ended up breaking everything there would be no lift companies left. Stuff breaks, then you beef it up (welcome to offroading 101). I did not say it wasn't safe to run one upper i said it wasn't right if your suspension wasn't designed for one upper. Or maybe it could have something to do with using an axle thats twice as heavy as what the arms are designed for. I could care less if you bash rusty or not.....
but thanks for putting words in my mouth......

 

[XJoachim]

I wouldent put rustys long arms under my rig, but my rig is Huge compared to a normal 6in lifted Xj with a d30 front and 35s...

What do you call my rig?

 

[woody]

I think anyone who wheels their junk is obliged to look after it... Ride hard on anything and it's subject to failure at some point. Also look at this application: using stuff that was designed for a D30 and 4 arms with a D60, one arm missing, and big tires> for how many trips/comps? Gimme a fucking break.

How many peoples junk breaks after one short trailride? (first obstacle fuckup syndrome) How many's tears up after repeated trailrides? (Did you actually LOOK at things-everythings- EACH TIME or did ya just say: "it's new it's good to go.")

Before anyone throws a wet blanket... look at things from a destructive point of view. What product out there exsists with a 'no questions asked, 100% you kill it, we replace it' warranty? Also for the sake of argument in this specific case... who has sent their parts back to the manufacturer, 'unmodified' for failure analysis?

Everything has a shelf life. Ignore it at your own peril. Look at your junk.

 

[Glenn B]

That is pretty harsh. I have ran plenty of Rusty's stuff, and had no problems. I inspected my stuff everytime I used it, and adjusted or repaired as needed. I found his stuff to be trouble free for the most part. In fact, I went through more gears, ujoints, body panels, tires, etc... than I had problems with any of Rustys stuff.
Glenn

I'm posting this mainly for those who are new to the XJ modifying game and haven't been around for the last 5 years to see this stuff happen firsthand........:soapbox:

I don't like to Hasta but as many times as I've seen Rusty's junk break on the trail, in the driveway or on the trailer.......why do folks still purchase his crap? He's had the same problem for years, so he's not learning from his engineering mistakes, giving me the impression that he just doesn't care.

I really don't think that pretending to be a nice guy makes up for this, I wouldn't run his stuff if I got it for free and he threw in a nice steak dinner for 2.......given some time, both will wind up resembling the other. And is he really that nice of a guy if he turns out crap, and after his junk breaks, suggests that you upgrade it at YOUR cost with the HD components that he should have used in the first place? :banghead: Come on folks, this is easy math!!

XJoachim, I would press for a full refund AND stop selling his stuff AND return any Rusty's inventory you have on hand for a full refund.

These components are not that difficult to build right the first time, many of us build higher quality stuff in our own garage, and the reason Rusty's stuff is cheaper than RE and Curries is because it's built cheaper. :twak:

Choose wisely where you decide to spend your hard earned cash, and weigh the risks that are associated with your purchase decision.

 

[Kejtar]

OK, I saw yesterday a second set of Rusty's Long Arms. They do not look bad and from what I talked with the owner of the rig, he's wheeled them pretty hard and loves them. I don't know how you can have such breakage without prior signs of fatigue or wear or something.
Also his parts are not as bad as everyone makes them out to be: I run his crossmember which is way beefier then stock. Could it be better designed? probably. Am I putting more "stress" on it then expected? probably. Did I reinforce it? yes. Should I expect it to be bulletproof and survive everything I put my rig through? I don't think so as everyone here has to admit that we put our rigs through waaaaaaaaaay more then it was ever intended or expected of them.

 

[woody]

Ach! a GEM mined from a gravel pit!

"I don't know how you can have such breakage without prior signs of fatigue or wear or something."

NO Shit! Look at your junk... closely!. I've looked after junk in a Military Weapons sense before, also looked after junk in an industrial sense (especially closer after wifey got her hand mashed by a runaway machine) If you decline the opportunity to inspect the junk before you use it... you get to wear the wreath afterwards.... it might be rosy or it might be shitty...

Or you can just blame your crew chief for 'checking it for you'?

 

[sidriptide]

here's my purchase next spring.... it's a little on the high end of the price range but its a the total other end of the spectrum from rusty's stuff..

http://www.claytonoffroad.com/hap_main.html

mike

 

[Beezil]

Rusty lover or Rusty hater, that sleeve that is used to capture the bushing is too thin, and IMHO, shouldn't be any lighter than 3/16ga, no matter what kind of control arms we are talking about.

 

[woody]

Maybe thin... but when was the last time the user looked at it... he was running a storebought radius arm setup with one link omitted, and a much huger axle than the setup was designed for. What vendor do you know that would allow that? RE? It's been asked. Today. Answer was: "your life is in your own hands".

Ask Clayton if he'd warranty his stuff with a D60 and one arm gone...

People with 'extreme' tastes tend to make and break their own junk... don't come out with some leaky ass "my junk broke" sob story from underbuilding your rig. It won't fly.

 

[YELLAHEEP]

I agree, that looks way too thin to hold a bushing no matter what kind of rig a person puts it on......

But I'm getting sick of hearing about people bitching about mass produced parts breaking when it's not being used for the application it's intended for.

Personally, I'd be ashamed to post anything about that breakage if I were running a D60/D70 combo and went to Rusty's to BUY suspensions parts.... :twak:

Put your self in the vendor's place..... Would YOU feel it reasonable to warranty your custom made pieces if they were being used in a manner other than intended? Jeezus.

Use common sense people. It's crap like this that shuts down good businesses. :soapbox:

 

[XJoachim]

@woody
You have to see it from an other point of view. This was not the first failure i had with those bushings. I already destroyed 2 frame side bushings from the short LCA when i was running short arms and the D30. Since then the design and the used material has not changed and i know a few people that had the same breakage. Knowing the weak point of this design i removed all the frame side bushings of Rustys Arms and replaced them with RE Superflex joints. The material is thicker and thus provides more material to produce a good weld.

If i would have bent the arm or the bushing would be ripped at any other point i would have brought out the welder, replace it with something stronger and call it my fault. But here the used material did not give - it was the combination of 2 pieces that have been welded together and the smaller one was overheated during the welding process. This produced fatigue and the result is breakage.

BTW, these arms and the crossmember are the only bought things left on my rig's suspension.

@YELLAHEEP
What is the intended use for a lower control arm? What does he do? What does an upper arm?

The upper arm(s) prevents the axle from rotating and the lowers have to transfer the power from the axle to the frame. If the (single) upper arm would have broke or would have ripped off the mount from the axle - my fault. If the lower arm cannot transfer the momentum of the axle to the frame that a stock, tired 180.000 mile 4.0 sixbanger produces - also my fault?

There is no bind in my front suspension so this also could not be the reason for this (bind and something has to give).

If i would warranty a lower control arm? I sell and manufacture suspension parts too and i will warranty such a breakage without questions asked. Also if the bushing would have failed at the opposite side i would have asked to send in the arms and give him a stronger bushing.

So again, tell me what is the intended use for these control arms? Web wheeling or mall crawling? :confused1

 

[Beezil]

but when was the last time the user looked at it...

good point.

vehicle inspections are always a good idea.

this cannot be debated.

however, its a different subject.

The materials used in the construction in this particular componant are not adequate.

plain and simple.

Forget about who made them....if I showed you a picture of those arms before failure, and the information on who made them was excluded, you KNOW you'd say "jeeze, those bushing sleeves are pretty damn thin, they'll probably fail for sure"

the design is inherently flawed due to the choice of materials.

ESPECIALLY on vehicles that can be EXPECTED to see abuse

how can you argue with that?

 

[Beezil]

I'm talking to rusty now.

Pictures must be decieving.

The sleeve is .188 machined down to .156 (.250 worth of shoulder) to accomodate the bushing.

there are some things happening here that are important to the discussion.

these arms are meant to twist/articulate at the threaded section. Users who choose to add jam nuts are stopping the rotation of the arm, and in a limited range of motion, something has GOT TO GIVE. If you stop the arm from rotating, flex will cause fatigue. Rusty never intended for users to stop this rotation with jam nuts. He is not surprised that this would happen. Rusty also instructs users to run BOTH uppers. He cannot honor warranty claims for users that run ONE arm.

When it is understood that the arm may have failed because it was forced into a range of motion that exceeds the bushings ability to give, failure is guaranteed.

interesting.........

 

[XJEEPER]

I'm talking to rusty now.

Pictures must be decieving.

The sleeve is .188 machined down to .156 (.250 worth of shoulder) to accomodate the bushing.

there are some things happening here that are important to the discussion.

these arms are meant to twist/articulate at the threaded section. Users who choose to add jam nuts are stopping the rotation of the arm, and in a limited range of motion, something has GOT TO GIVE. If you stop the arm from rotating, flex will cause fatigue. Rusty never intended for users to stop this rotation with jam nuts. He is not surprised that this would happen. Rusty also instructs users to run BOTH uppers. He cannot honor warranty claims for users that run ONE arm.

When it is understood that the arm may have failed because it was forced into a range of motion that exceeds the bushings ability to give, failure is guaranteed.

interesting.........

Or you could design the arm with the flex points at the bushings and run Johnny Joints, RE Superflex joints or the like and greatly reduce the problem of bind-induced breakage.

Beez....from an engineering perspective, (which neither one of us are) which has the better ability to withstand repetative torsional loading, a set of threads or a joint like we've discussed?

 

[Kejtar]

Or you could design the arm with the flex points at the bushings and run Johnny Joints, RE Superflex joints or the like and greatly reduce the problem of bind-induced breakage.

Beez....from an engineering perspective, (which neither one of us are) which has the better ability to withstand repetative torsional loading, a set of threads or a joint like we've discussed?

Yeah but it was designed with a particular application in mind and it was "modified". So it's not a question of which design is better but people not using things as there were designed and then blaming the manufacturer for the failure which just isn't fair to the manufacturer.

 

[XJEEPER]

Yeah but it was designed with a particular application in mind and it was "modified". So it's not a question of which design is better but people not using things as there were designed and then blaming the manufacturer for the failure which just isn't fair to the manufacturer.

My original post is this thread is addressing the manufacturer in general, not so much this specific application. If I hadn't fixed his junk for others, redesigned his junk so it worked as intended, or experienced his product failure as often as I have on the trail, then I would have said nothing at all. It is relative to my experience and also why I do not, will not ever, nor recommend to anyone, buying components from Rusty's.
YMMV