Jeff 98XJ WI
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Butternut, WI
CRASH said:
I like the pocket idea, but I agree with crash here. My long arm 3 link has the lower arms angled in quite a bit and my tires will still rub them a touch at full lock turn. Jeff
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pocketing frame for long arms...any thoughts?
- Thread starter rockwerks
- Start date
I like the pocket idea, but I agree with crash here. My long arm 3 link has the lower arms angled in quite a bit and my tires will still rub them a touch at full lock turn. Jeff
"If you spread the weight on a FLAT piece it will slide with much less effort. because it is flat. and how the hell can you have the same clearance if you have a bracket hanging down from the frame? The frame rail is what we are using to ride on."
and what you dont understand is that rock thats sliding across your flat frame is going to slide INTO YOUR CONTROL ARM AT SOME POINT, if your bracket is in the same place as your control arm exits the frame and is at the same angle as your control arms the rock will slide onto your bracket JUST AS IT WOULD THE CONTROL ARM its simply hitting your bracket sliding up and following down your control arm. i dont see why you cant understand that. and if you build your brackets properly there will be no difference between the rocks sliding onto your control arm or onto the bracket.
if you dont understand that then theres nothing else i can type that will make you understand.
and what you dont understand is that rock thats sliding across your flat frame is going to slide INTO YOUR CONTROL ARM AT SOME POINT, if your bracket is in the same place as your control arm exits the frame and is at the same angle as your control arms the rock will slide onto your bracket JUST AS IT WOULD THE CONTROL ARM its simply hitting your bracket sliding up and following down your control arm. i dont see why you cant understand that. and if you build your brackets properly there will be no difference between the rocks sliding onto your control arm or onto the bracket.
if you dont understand that then theres nothing else i can type that will make you understand.
gearwhine
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Denver, CO
88rockxj said:
ok..forgetting ground clearance losses, you are correct...it will slide along the bracket the same exact way. I'm pretty sure that's what you're getting at.
My thought on the topic is...rocks, stumps, etc. dochip, dent, etc... extra protrustions (1/4" brackets hanging down...like a knife almost) are more prone to digging into the obstacle (not talking about ground clearance here, totally different subject) the flatter, and more area it has to lay on that obstacle, the less likely it is for you to get really stuck.
Next...again, land on a rock with your control arm....slide down your CA until it's at your frame bracket...either way...it will hit the frame bracket, and we'll assume you slide over the bracket with any design. Keep in mind we are not competition crawlers....we do back up to reposition and stuff. say you slide over that rock with a bracket hanging down...now, try backing up if you notice you don't have the right line...it's not going to happen. If you don't have a protrusion, it makes it that much easier to back up.
Now you're probabaly going to bring up the ramp behind the bracket idea....still not the same...still a protrusion and still MUCH harder to back up over. Better than no ramp, but there are still better options.
I hope I understand what you're trying to say still, and I hope you understand what i'm saying.
_nicko_
bj-666
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Rhode Island
88rockxj said:
just for giggles unless u are talking about a very elastic materital such as rubber surface area does not come into play when talking about sliding resistance. Dont' beleive me take some type of scale and a 2x6 place the 2x6 on the wide side and pull on the scale not place the 2x6 on the skinny side the readings will be the same (in perfect conditions) now if you talk about a much more elastic material it is a different sceen.
and i think you guys are bitchen about the same idea post some pics or something of what your talking about.
- Location
- Brighton, CO
I just took a tape to my rig, and you're right. My frame is 22", and axle centerline is 18" from the ground. I don't remember how low stock axle LCA brackets hang, but assuming they are 2" below centerline, the arm could hit the frame with 6" of uptravel.xjnation said:
I didn't even think about tire rub. I guess I should look at stock geometry once in a while.
-Jon
gearwhine said:
"Now you're probabaly going to bring up the ramp behind the bracket idea....still not the same...still a protrusion and still MUCH harder to back up over. Better than no ramp, but there are still better options"
if the "ramp" is built properly there is no difference between the rock sliding down your control arm directly to the frame as it would if you were to pocket the mount as compared to the rock sliding down your control arm then to your properly designed "ramp" and then to your frame.
that is my only point in this entire thread, i dont see why that is so hard to understand.
when i reverse the rock sliding on my frame is going to slide into my control arm at some point , the same point my bracket is in with my "ramp" on my bracket. once again, rock sliding down your frame will hit your control arm at some point and will no longer be on the flat surface of your frame it will now be on your control arm which has less surface then my flat ramp so ????
- Location
- Foresthill, CA
88, which of these setups seems better to you?:
A:
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B:
A:
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B:
- Location
- Foresthill, CA
60 WMS, 15x9", 3.5" BS, 35's.
Most people don't get full turning out of their u-joints. I am right at u-joint bind, minus a little to account for steering stop wear, and I touch the LCA under articulation.
Most people don't get full turning out of their u-joints. I am right at u-joint bind, minus a little to account for steering stop wear, and I touch the LCA under articulation.
- Location
- West Sacramento, CA
Setup A will obviously be better than B (because of the flatter arms), as long as the drag plates are properly ramped. Ramp them back roughly halfway to the front leaf spring bolt, and you'll be ready to wheel all over NOR*CAL.
CRASH said:88, which of these setups seems better to you?:
A:
.
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B:
1. i said properly built
2. crappy ass ford arms dont count
3. that was a pathetic attempt at comparing my idea to his
4. you pick a very good example for his setup then you choose a horrible example for my setup , which you didnt even get right.
5. imo anyone that mounts ford arms under thier jeep instead of building thier own shouldnt be complaining about anything
are you really serious? im thinking you are and thats pretty darn sad .
and i could care less about hitting my control arms, thats what 67" wms axle is for since the stock one is a pile of crap with unit bearings and pathetic r&p. out 2" for every 1" in extra height is around what ilike to do.
rockwerks
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Chito Beach Resort, WA
OK rocket scienctist learn us....instead of rambling how about a pic of what you mean....If you can find one
JeepFreak21
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Cameron Park, CA
Lincoln said:
After he gets some decent seat time, he'll wise up.
Billy
- Location
- Foresthill, CA
88rockxj said:
It's funny, we all seem to have equal difficulty in deciphering what you mean.....curious.
In any case, I really don't think you have been in the kind of situation where having a ramp mounted to the bottom of the frame has hindered you. If you had, it would be perfectly clear to you why you want ZERO obstruction to sliding on the frame/control arm mount/control arm. Sometimes the differnce in making a given obstacle and taking the strap is about 50lbs of thrust. A 9/16" bolt head with 3000 lbs resting on it can easily stop forward progress in low traction situations.
Then again, maybe I'm wrong and you're a fabrication genius and rockcrawling champ who is just misunderstood. :dunno:
CRASH
JeepFreak21
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Cameron Park, CA
88rockxj said:
Send it my way.
Billy
JeepFreak21
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Cameron Park, CA
88rockxj said:
Here's his pic...
