Noisy lifter? or something else?

[UltimateG]

I need some help diagnosing an engine noise. My best guess is it’s a bad lifter, but I’m not an expert mechanic, and don’t know how to make a definite determination. Things are getting to the point where turning up the radio volume just isn’t helping any more. I just bought the jeep last year - It’s a stock 1994, 4.0 liter, AW4, daily driver in otherwise in good condition.

I’ve searched around here and learned a lot of good info about malfunctioning lifters, but I can’t tell for sure if that’s really what I have. Things have gotten really bad today, so a repair is imminent. I'd say that it's important to know exactly what's up before attempting to tear the top off the motor to replace the lifters (which I don’t know how to do, and I’m not looking forward to at all).

Not long after I purchased the jeep, two engine noises started popping up:
​

Bad noise #1 is a LOUD rough chattery click. It begins the second the engine starts, and only lasts for a moment. It will tick intensely eight or nine times in the space of 1.5 seconds, and then stop abruptly.

Bad noise #2 begins after the engine has run for only a minute; a second ticking noise fades in. This one is less noisy, a more gentle, sharp tapping that goes on for about five minutes, and then just stops suddenly after things have warmed up a bit.

Both of these happen on cold starts, especially in the winter. To fix this, I’ve tried some oil treatments. The last five oil changes have all been around 1500 - 2000 miles apart. Each of which I’ve added to the oil, with no success:

1- March: ATF added to Mobil-1
2- April: Seafoam/ Mobil-1
3- June: Auto-RX
4- July: Plain Castrol 10w30 - rinse phase for the Auto-rx,
5- Today: back to Mobil-1 5w30

NOW TODAY - things have become really bad. I put new oil in it this morning, and noise #2 started and did not go away. I drove it for a few hours and it stayed for the entire trip. It will fade in for a minute or two, then suddenly cut out, then fade back in again a minute later. I’m getting worried that things may be getting serious, and I can no longer put off doing an actual repair.


My Questions:

1. How can I determine EXACTLY what is causing the noise? (is it a lifter, or how can I tell if it’s something else?)
2. If it is the lifter, how many miles can I drive before it starts to damage the engine? (Does a sticky lifter hurt the cam? Does a collapsed lifter cause lack of oil damage to the rockers?)
3. Is there any other cure available without taking the engine apart?

Thanks



:eyes:

 

[ARBOGASTER]

Do not drive that car another mile ! ! ! My 1996 did the exact same thing to a T. Just a little noise when first started then a quiet ticking all the time then a little louder ticking all the time. Some guys on here claimed that it was not a problem and to just run some ATF fluid through with the oil to clean it out. Do not listen to them. I did that and now have a nice broomstick sized hole through my piston. I did pull the valve cover and check for broken springs and loose lifters prior to the catastrophic failyure but found nothing. So I limped it around town hoping to clean out the motor and solve the problem. To make a long story short I now have a low mileage 4.0 from a 1998 sitting in dad's garage waiting to be dropped into my truck. There is lots of great help on this site but sometimes you get some bad advice as well. Better to spend a few bucks now rather then yank the motor later. Just my .02$

 

[POSXJGuy]

Some guys on here claimed that it was not a problem and to just run some ATF fluid through with the oil to clean it out. Do not listen to them. I did that and now have a nice broomstick sized hole through my piston.

sounds like your case was a bit more serious than what any additive could fix. the atf and marvel mystery oil trick does work if you have certain condition, slightly stuck lifter.

i had a ticking lifter and it was cured with marvel mystery oil in one day. one short day. i have also done the aft trick in another xj and it worked great. of course these cures ar for ticking lifters not clunking motors.

 

[POSXJGuy]

I need some help diagnosing an engine noise. My best guess is it’s a bad lifter, but I’m not an expert mechanic, and don’t know how to make a definite determination. Things are getting to the point where turning up the radio volume just isn’t helping any more. I just bought the jeep last year - It’s a stock 1994, 4.0 liter, AW4, daily driver in otherwise in good condition.

I’ve searched around here and learned a lot of good info about malfunctioning lifters, but I can’t tell for sure if that’s really what I have. Things have gotten really bad today, so a repair is imminent. I'd say that it's important to know exactly what's up before attempting to tear the top off the motor to replace the lifters (which I don’t know how to do, and I’m not looking forward to at all).

Not long after I purchased the jeep, two engine noises started popping up:
​

Bad noise #1 is a LOUD rough chattery click. It begins the second the engine starts, and only lasts for a moment. It will tick intensely eight or nine times in the space of 1.5 seconds, and then stop abruptly.

Bad noise #2 begins after the engine has run for only a minute; a second ticking noise fades in. This one is less noisy, a more gentle, sharp tapping that goes on for about five minutes, and then just stops suddenly after things have warmed up a bit.

Both of these happen on cold starts, especially in the winter. To fix this, I’ve tried some oil treatments. The last five oil changes have all been around 1500 - 2000 miles apart. Each of which I’ve added to the oil, with no success:

1- March: ATF added to Mobil-1
2- April: Seafoam/ Mobil-1
3- June: Auto-RX
4- July: Plain Castrol 10w30 - rinse phase for the Auto-rx,
5- Today: back to Mobil-1 5w30

NOW TODAY - things have become really bad. I put new oil in it this morning, and noise #2 started and did not go away. I drove it for a few hours and it stayed for the entire trip. It will fade in for a minute or two, then suddenly cut out, then fade back in again a minute later. I’m getting worried that things may be getting serious, and I can no longer put off doing an actual repair.


My Questions:

1. How can I determine EXACTLY what is causing the noise? (is it a lifter, or how can I tell if it’s something else?)
2. If it is the lifter, how many miles can I drive before it starts to damage the engine? (Does a sticky lifter hurt the cam? Does a collapsed lifter cause lack of oil damage to the rockers?)
3. Is there any other cure available without taking the engine apart?

Thanks



:eyes:

the only way to be sure is to take top end off. other than that, there are things to try. if it wounds bad then it probably is bad. stuck lifters can ruin cams. dump in one quart of marvel mystery oil with 5 quarts of 5/30 wt oil and see what happens.

 

[ARBOGASTER]

Yeah, I know it has worked for some but his story sounds toooo much like mine. I'm not blaming anyone for my motor puking but I'd rather see this guy spend 300$ pulling the head and having it gone through than blowing something up. I know I learned my lesson.

 

[POSXJGuy]

Yeah, I know it has worked for some but his story sounds toooo much like mine. I'm not blaming anyone for my motor puking but I'd rather see this guy spend 300$ pulling the head and having it gone through than blowing something up. I know I learned my lesson.

i totally agree, you never know until you really look into it. these things work but only for certain things.

 

[UltimateG]

Well, thanks anyway for not telling me that the problem isn't that the radio needs to be louder.

What does this clue tell you: The sound was slight, untill I changed the oil from 10w30 castrol to 5w30 synthetic mobil.

How fast will I damage the cam if I drive with a collapsed lifter?

and, I've recorded some audio of the startup. the file is 90 seconds long (and 1mb) If you listen close, it's pretty obvious that the clicking fades in and out. Is that a clue, too? ------> wave file, click here



Thanks
G

 

[UltimateG]

Anyone else?

Bump for the sound file^, thanks.

 

[terryd]

i dont really have a diagnosis, but i have a 98 cherokee that we bought in january, it has 167,500 on it and i assume its all original parts. my motor makes no noise till it warms up some and then this ticking at first, now more of a cluck-ish sound occurs at idle.....my jeep has no guages just idoit lights so i assume if its losing oilpressure, its not droping to the point of no pressure, but i was wondering if this was a related problem to the one you're experiencing. i'd like to know if it needs a new motor, cause if i catch it before cataclismic failure, i'd like to attempt a 4.7 stroker with it. this being my frist jeep 6cyl and all....

 

[lilredwagn]

Mechanics stethescope. As little as $5 on sale at HF or as much as $10 from your local auto parts store. Will help you determine where in the engine the noise is coming from.

 

[HogWash]

Did you try some of the seafoam,its great stuff.I dont have my noises any more coming from my engine compartment.Now I hear noises every were else!:roll:

 

[90xj06]

i have this chattering sound i think it maybe the timing chain. it sounds like a chain rattinling bit im not sure.

 

[ARBOGASTER]

I switched to different oil weights and found that the sound went away and came back at different RPM's . . . .Quit running the thing and tear it down to be fixed unless you want to replace the whole motor. ! ! !

 

[lawsoncl]

Are you sure its a lifter? Get out your long handled screwdriver and locate the noise. #2 could just be the classic cracked header. Loose flexplate bolts are a common source of noise, but isn't really intermittent like that.

 

[dyna]

This will get messy but we used to run engines with the valve cover off to adjust valves on some engines. while its ideling you could easily hear which valve is loose and if not just push the rocker end opposite the valve stem, this will keep the slack out and shut it up. The snake oils can work at times. Marvel is supposed to completly dissolve carbon deposits which is better than ATF which supposedly only knocks it loose and possibly causing blockage of oil passages. Either way removing heavy carbon build up on rings and other places isnt necessarly gonna be a good thing. Heavy oil use can be a result of loosening up the rings.

 

[Jay Welch]

I've heard of engines with loose rockers wearing the end off the valve stem to the point that the keeper has nothing to keep and the valve gets launched through the piston.

So what was the final prognosis with your blown engine????

I switched to different oil weights and found that the sound went away and came back at different RPM's . . . .Quit running the thing and tear it down to be fixed unless you want to replace the whole motor. ! ! !

 

[Stormwalker]

Well, thanks anyway for not telling me that the problem isn't that the radio needs to be louder.

What does this clue tell you: The sound was slight, untill I changed the oil from 10w30 castrol to 5w30 synthetic mobil.

How fast will I damage the cam if I drive with a collapsed lifter?

and, I've recorded some audio of the startup. the file is 90 seconds long (and 1mb) If you listen close, it's pretty obvious that the clicking fades in and out. Is that a clue, too? ------> wave file, click here



Thanks
G

It's pretty interesting, I listened to that sound file and it sounds exactly like my 91 does. My 91 has been doing that ever since I picked it up. I think it is just now starting to get just a little bit worse. I have not bothered to fix it or anything because the truck just isn't worth doing much to (floor is rusting out, etc) and I picked it up to be a disposable truck anyways.

If it's any consolation to you, like I said, mine has sounded like that since day 1. I have put 50k miles on it so far without issue. But if this is a nice truck you care about, then I guess you should do something about it.

 

[jmowens]

FWIW, I've had my '98 4.0 for about 3 months now, and it sounds exactly like your sound file. I test drove 4 other 4.0 XJ's b4 I bought mine, and all sounded like that, so I just assumed that's what a 4.0 with over 100K sounds like!

 

[ARBOGASTER]

I'm not sure yet. When i pull the motor in about 2 weeks I'll pull the head and find out and let you know. All my initial investigation revealed was that I had a 50 cent piece sized hole in my piston #3. This was observed through the spark plug hole. My engine blew while under load while climbing a hill at 50 mph. I picked up a 60k mile 4.0 out of a 1998 and figured I'd start fresh.

 

[Stormwalker]

FWIW, I've had my '98 4.0 for about 3 months now, and it sounds exactly like your sound file. I test drove 4 other 4.0 XJ's b4 I bought mine, and all sounded like that, so I just assumed that's what a 4.0 with over 100K sounds like!

They aren't supposed to sound like that. Probably a stuck lifter, there's good advice on this forum on what to do about it (involves running some products along with your oil).

My 96 and my girlfriend's 93 don't have any of that valvetrain noise, but my 91 sounds just like that sound file. Alot of 4.0s do indeed have that problem though.