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No Skill...

just building my post #s. LOL i think a "built" Jeep can go farther and do less damage to the trail because you can go slow and easy without having to dig your way thru.
 
"but what about teh 12" lift on 10" chrome blocks with stock axles, stock gears and 37's? Is that a good example of building?"

No it isn't and anyone with a few brain cells left firing can tell that...

Luckily here at NAXJA we have pplenty of good folks who would (attempt to) dissuade anyone from that route, and at the few club events I have been to, we don't see any examples of that either...well at the SEC Truck Show we did have a couple pooper-duty's that were pretty far out there into the 'bling' zone., but I doubt they saw any off-pavement use.

Point is all the 'experience' in the world wont help your ass if your stock rig on mall tires & one-wheel-wonder axles is high centered on a pile of gopher crap and you are 10 feet too far from the nearest pull point to self-extricate.

I admre and love to watch good drivers wheel mildly built rigs... OTOH it's more fun for me to get into some nasty trails/any weather/disregard for carnage and have at it.

Folks can woof all that 'such a capable rig in stock form' stuff they care to...you won't see many of them in my rearview on the 'fun' trails down here...better have mud-grips and armor (at least) and not be afraid to trade some paint.

Before anyone cries 'Trailer Queen'...my junk has always been driven to & from the trails. That may change someday, but for now, it's a locked up, 6" on 33" daily driver that gets 17 MPG and a quart of 10W40 every week.
 
"Some have resourses and experience some just have resourses!!!"

Experience and mechanical ability (and tools) is a resource too.

If I could 'buy' my next rig, and never turn a wrench again in my life...trust me Grasshopper, I would in a heartbeat. I'd call AAA to air me back up after the trailride and have my 'escorts' keep fresh cold ones handy as the driver toted me around :D

Some folks get off on the maintenance/building/fab aspect...I used to like it, but hate it anymore; Being a po boy with a bundle of tools leaves me no other options but to DIY.

Woody
NAXJA President
 
I just don't think I would like it as much if I just bought my rig......I would like the time I spent off-road just as much but I spend a lot of my hobby time building my toys. My job can be stressful (whose isn't?) and there are days that the only way I can get through it is thinking about the work to do in the garage when I get home. When I have done all the basics of any build up I sometimes need other things to do. This leads to making my toys better and better. Not always nesc. but heck...its often cheaper than starting an entire new project. You can see where this can lead. My wife likes to note that when my job gets rough my garage gets busy! Maybe this is just another reason that rigs get better and better......
 
hahahaha... Woody, I can just picture you calling for AAA in a middle of Rubicon LOL.

Anyways, it might be a personal approach and view, but I think that when I started if I had from the getgo 6" of lift and 33's I'd be in trouble :D. I first had an 86 2.8 V6 which I took stock (with a helper spring in the rear and 235's) all over Mojave and Death Valley. There was one trail that I remember (actually an old abandoned mining road, on which I believe I shouldn't have been in the first place) that had me thinking that I should roll down my window a bit further to support my rig from rolling on it's side :D. In any case, then I had my 98 with the upcounty which I still took stock (on 225's that came with it) quite a few places. Of course none of them compared to Holocomb Creek, John Bull or Dishpan Springs, but they gave me an understanding of certain concepts. With time as I grew (first AAL, now a replaced pack and SYE) I grow more and more appreciation towards my XJ and I don't think I'd ever give it to a mechanic if it wasn't for the fact that certain jobs will be too big for me :(. ANyways, I don't think that what I'm saying is for people not to build, but not to get too much too fast. I can also understand someone wanting to buy a built rig (oh... if I only had $$ and OneTon was selling LOL) but I think that privelage of buying a built rig should go to someone who has seen his wheels through a growing period....

Kejtar
 
In some ways and at some times I think it might be nice to just pay someone else to wrench my fleet. Then I remember that on those occasions when I have paid someone else to do it (for whatever raison du jour), I've generally been less than satisfied with the result, and in a couple of cases my life has been endangered by said "work."

Hence, even though I am getting too old to crawl around on cold ground or concrete, and my knuckles are feeling the onset of arthritis, I still feel more secure doing my own work. I ain't the fastest wrench in the world -- in fact, I generally prefer using hand tools to power tools for some obscure reason -- but I trust my own work more than I trust anyone else's.

I think if I had more "resourses" I'd probably use 'em to buy more & better tools rather than hiring out the work.
 
I agree with you to a point.

When I first bought my XJ, I stuck 30" tires on it and wheeled it for a few years till I was capable of driving any place that the Jeep could go, then I put lsd's in both ends and drove again every place that it could go and continued building it and then driving it every place that it could go. Now I'm at the point that I'm going to break stock axles before a drive it every place that it can go.

The point I'm trying to make is maintain your experience level equal to or one step above your vehicles capabilities.
 
Scott Mac. said:
I agree with you to a point.

When I first bought my XJ, I stuck 30" tires on it and wheeled it for a few years till I was capable of driving any place that the Jeep could go, then I put lsd's in both ends and drove again every place that it could go and continued building it and then driving it every place that it could go. Now I'm at the point that I'm going to break stock axles before a drive it every place that it can go.

The point I'm trying to make is maintain your experience level equal to or one step above your vehicles capabilities.
Click to expand...

Dang Scotty, that was pretty good for a Yank. :) I agree completely.
 
Well damn, I think Scott pretty much summed it up, I agree too That's it, 3 people agree in a row, this thread is finished :D
 
One Ton, You Remind Me of Bill O'reilly in a room full of Democrats Liberals; Your the only one who thinks your way and no one else cares about your Opinions!
 
Scott, What you said ties into most Motorsports. You'll ride the Trail Bike on the motocross track til you come home with ruptured fork seals theen you know you've reached the limit and go out and buy a motocross bike. WELL SAID!
 
"I admre and love to watch good drivers wheel mildly built rigs... OTOH it's more fun for me to get into some nasty trails/any weather/disregard for carnage and have at it."

I can think of two folks that sentence reminded me of--Dale (RoXJeeper) and of course,Woody

:D :D
 
There is a good exchange of ideas going on here among the boils of opinion. Bandwith is cheap... let's keep it up.

Besides :jester: I likes funnin with all these 'little Jeep' people.

I dunno...not saying that the experience gained by going in increments is 'BAD' (driving skills, upgrade parts selection & installing knowledge) and it does feed the used parts market here and on other boards :) and I surely won't say that folks in mild rigs aren't having fun...or folks like Rich and others who are building (or built) a street performance Jeep... We are lucky to have such versatile and adaptable rigs as our vehicle of favor.

I might be jaded, but I bought my MJ with 33" on there (mild lift, open/3.07) then within the 1st 6 months did a SOA, +4.5" lift 4.56:1, spool & LS front. I wasn't new to off-roading though...just new to that rig, and I did what I felt it needed to get where I wanted to travel. It was my DD then as well.

Mark makes a good point that IF PROPERLY OPERATED, a more built up Jeep may tread more lightly than a mild one that has to work harder for the same trail progress.

I think when my 9 yo grandbaby gets tall enough to safely operate a vehicle, she will learn how to wheel in my 'mildly built up' 89XJ. No sense putting a newbie in inferior equipment ;) or a rig that can't Right now she is 'mature' enough (moreso than her momma and 15 yo aunt combined)...just not tall enough IMHO. The learning skills are the same (taken from step zero) so why handicap a new Jeeper?

The most important thing to me about Jeeping is the "having fun" part. That aspect is a purely individual thing that varies among the community, and it requires an open mind and patience to even begin to communicate it to others.

Having fun yet?
 
Georgia Mike said:
I can think of two folks that sentence reminded me of--Dale (RoXJeeper) and of course,Woody

:D :D
Click to expand...

I am not a good driver... I have cashed in a lifetime's worth of lucky moments is all... :dunno: but ya don't want to be around when my lucky streak zero's out.

Dale, Kevin, & Michelle from this year's Crawl and Mark (2offroad) come to mind as skillful drivers in capable rigs.
 
Damn, sure is a lot of BS flinging on this thread. ;)

You can't really disagree with anyone's point here, just a couple of different angles on the same subject. I also think much of the buildup stuff is another aspect of recreation. Some of us like to think things up and build them, it's fun just like the wheeling is.

I also hope no one thinks that they have to build up to fit in, because that's not true. The fun of wheeling is the scenery and the challenge, and wheeling a stock or slightly modified vehicle can be more fun and challenging than putting easily along in a modified rig.

Part of building (and spending) is for reliability as well as performance. There have been comments made about building too fast and not getting enough driver experience, which can be a good point. I think more in terms of increasing the capabilty of a rig without increasing it's reliabilty......not a good thing in my view. Since we can have fun at any level, I don't go for the big tires and big lifts when everything else is still stock, like axles and steering. I say keep the build up balanced, increase capabilty and reliability at the same time, and driver experience will also go with it.

Wheeling is fun......breaking down isn't, even though we accept a certain amount of breakage as just a part of the sport.
 
Goatman said:




I also hope no one thinks that they have to build up to fit in, because that's not true. The fun of wheeling is the scenery and the challenge, and wheeling a stock or slightly modified vehicle can be more fun and challenging than putting easily along in a modified rig.
Click to expand...
Well said,
Last week on Deep Creek/Holcomb Creek there was a gal in a stock rig about 6 XJ's ahead of me. There were also very modified XJ's (dual lockers, V-8, etc.)as well. Not once while climbing through the tougher sections did I think about how the built rigs had managed to get through ahead of me. A stock XJ with some belly protection, even with open diffs, can suprise the snot out of you. :D
 
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