New motor oil wear problems on older engines

[corbinafly]

They have been around here in Houston since at least the early 80's. I used their cheap recyled oil back then on an old gaser with a leaky rear seal for a while. They seem to have a compete line of motor oils now, and are available at several chains in Houston stores. I have seen the Coastal SL still on the shelf here in Houston.

Looks like they might be keeping the API Sl only for a while from the looks of their web site, but who knows. For now at least some of the store inventory of Coastal Oils is not API SM yet, but once again you must check each bottle for presence of the old SL or CH-4 label and absence of the new SM or CJ-4 label.

Coastal is not a well known and respected brand name like Mobil oil or Redline oil, but in a pinch for an SL or CH-4 rated DYNO oil I would feel safe using theirs.

On another note I found an old bottle of ProShop Oil Treatment (blue bottle like STP's) at a Dollar store yesterday. They also had the blue STP bottle and new unknown brand called XL, but the XL did not list ZDDP in the contents. The ProShop listed ZDDP in the contents, but it seemed to be old stock and no longer available.Could not find a source of it on the web, but it was recommended in an older engine discussion thread on another forum. (studebaker something site I think).

Went to WallyWorld yesterday too, boy was that disapointing, nothing left their but SM/CJ-4 rated oils! Only additive left with ZDDP was blue STP bottle. I have yet to find a single bottle of STP red anywhere.

My local Kragen has it on the shelf for $2.99. Picked some up today along with some Delvac 1300 super 15w40 in the older CI-4 plus formulation.

Kyung

 

[mikegronholz]

I am hoping I am reading everything right ... but for the best chance at no problems, SM or SL rated is best ... correct ?

If so, from my readings, it looks like the Rotella 5w-40 synhetic would work ... correct ?

From Shell:
Meets or exceeds the diesel engine requirements of API CI-4 PLUS, Cummins CES 20078, Detroit Diesel, John Deere, Dodge, Ford, GM, International, Mack EO-N Premium Plus 03, Volvo and others; For gasoline engines, it exceeds API SL.

Also:


Approvals and Recommendations

• API CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF
• API SL, SJ, SH
• Cummins CES 20078, 20076, 20071
• Detroit Diesel 7SE 270
• Mack EO-N Premium Plus ’03, EO-N, EO-M Plus
• Volvo VDS 2pprovals and Recommendations

I have always run it in my Cummins Dodge, it would be real hady to use only one oil. It will problebly go in the new JK as well.

 

[Ecomike]

Regardless of what else it says on the bottle, if it says SM or CJ-4 anywhere on the container, it is suspect. If it has SM or CJ-4 in the API sysmbol on the container, then it is the new stuff and does not have enough ZDDP in it anymore. In which case it would only be OK if you find a ZDDP additive and added enough to get the Zinc up to 0.12%.

I am hoping I am reading everything right ... but for the best chance at no problems, SM or SL rated is best ... correct ?

If so, from my readings, it looks like the Rotella 5w-40 synhetic would work ... correct ?

From Shell:
Meets or exceeds the diesel engine requirements of API CI-4 PLUS, Cummins CES 20078, Detroit Diesel, John Deere, Dodge, Ford, GM, International, Mack EO-N Premium Plus 03, Volvo and others; For gasoline engines, it exceeds API SL.

Also:


Approvals and Recommendations

• API CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF
• API SL, SJ, SH
• Cummins CES 20078, 20076, 20071
• Detroit Diesel 7SE 270
• Mack EO-N Premium Plus ’03, EO-N, EO-M Plus
• Volvo VDS 2pprovals and Recommendations

I have always run it in my Cummins Dodge, it would be real hady to use only one oil. It will problebly go in the new JK as well.

 

[mikegronholz]

Awesome ... thanks for clearing it up for me. I just bought an XJ and am doing the initial flush and fill. The xj is an 01 and has 88k on it ... cool for synthetic ? Or stick to dino ? As of now, there is not a drip anywhere on the undercarriage or engine comprtment.

 

[Ecomike]

Awesome ... thanks for clearing it up for me. I just bought an XJ and am doing the initial flush and fill. The xj is an 01 and has 88k on it ... cool for synthetic ? Or stick to dino ? As of now, there is not a drip anywhere on the undercarriage or engine comprtment.

Some here would say switch to Mobil 1, but I would and I am switching to any CH-4 Diesel oil Like the Mobil Delvac 1300 super that I recently located and bought, on my next oil change, primarily because of the higher ZDDP and detergents content.

You might still be OK with a switch to a true synthetic like a Mobil 1 EP (I forget which ones Mobil is keeping the high ZDDP levels in, but its listed somewhere here earlier in this thread), but don't be surprized if it springs a leak shortly after the change. At 88K and 6 years old I would say it is starting to look risky.

I tried Castrol 20W50 Syntech in mine and it even leaked at a 6 month old valve cover gasket on mine! It went from using 1 quart every 3000 miles of 20W50 to using 1 quart every 200 miles. So I went back to mostly dyno oil. It still has some Castrol Syntech left in it mixed with Exxon 20W50 and Lucas additive that I added as the Syntech leaked out.

If my tapping lifter(s) gets noisy again I might risk a quart of Mobil one EP as an additive next time. Mine has 248,000 miles on it, but some of it has been reworked since I bought it, and maybe before I bought it.

 

[mikegronholz]

I guess I will give the Rotella Synthetic a go and see what happens.

 

[Ecomike]

Well I tried to pick up some more Mobil Delvac 1300, the old stuff, tonight and all they had was the new stuff, SM/CJ-4. So I guess even the Mobil Delvac 1300 Super has gone low zinc now.

I did buy six of the blue bottles of STP oil additive, and I broke down and bought 2 gallons of the API CH-4/SL Coastal Fleet brand Dyno oil they still had.

 

[corbinafly]

Well I tried to pick up some more Mobil Delvac 1300, the old stuff, tonight and all they had was the new stuff, SM/CJ-4. So I guess even the Mobil Delvac 1300 Super has gone low zinc now.

I did buy six of the blue bottles of STP oil additive, and I broke down and bought 2 gallons of the API CH-4/SL Coastal Fleet brand Dyno oil they still had.

When I bought my delvac ci-4 yesterday it was on the shelf with the newer cj-4 formulation. I think I'll go back tomorrow and get the rest of the old stuff if they have any left.

 

[cygnus58]

Stopped at a local no room to walk thru the aisle auto parts store, famous for old stock items.
Found 4 STP red, walked to the counter, asked if they had any more.
Guy returns from back, "we got three full cases back there".
I said get me the newest looking one.
Eureka!!
Today I have 12 15 0z. bottles!!!!!

 

[RyanM]

Anybody got any UOA's???

Here's one on RP 10w30

Here's my latest oil analysis using Royal Purple 10w30 with 33,014 miles on the truck. I'm using a K&N Gold oil filter - HP1002 w/a filter wrap on the K&N FIPK cone filter. I'm going to stick w/a change interval of 7K miles. I'm satisfied that the engine is cleaning up well so I'll do a yearly UOA from now on..... JB

WEAR METALS-
Iron- 11, 11, 6, 4, 4
Chromium- 0, 2, 0, 0, 0
Lead- 4, 12, 3, 3, 0
Copper- 44, 20, 20, 13, 15
Tin- 1, 11, 4, 4, 1
Aluminum- 4, 5, 2, 2, 1
Nickel- 0, 4, 0, 1, 0
Silver- 0, 1, 0, 0, 0

CONTAMINANTS-
Silicon- 43, 16, 11, 8, 6
Boron- 56, 5, 1, 0, 0
Sodium- 286, 67, 28, 16, 17
Potassium- 3, 1, 1, 1, 1

ADDITIVES-
Magnesium- 295, 54, 17, 11, 11
Calcium- 2046, 2139, 2063, 2064, 2058
Phosphorus- 1007, 1246, 1083, 1140, 1102
Zinc- 1193, 1276, 1161, 1206, 1189
Molybdenum- 95, 164, 163, 147, 151

PHYSICAL ANALYSIS-
Fuel- A, A, A, A, A
Water- 0.0, <0.1, <0.1, <0.1, <0.1
Glycol- N, N, N, N, N
Visc/ 100c cST- 9.2, 9.7, 10.1, 9.9, 9.9

Soot- <0.1, <0.1, <0.1, <0.1, <0.1
Oxidation- 16.00, 17.00, 20.00, 17.00, 19.00
Nitration- 9.10, 8.40, 9.00, 8.00, 10.20

“Wear levels appear to be normal. No corrective action indicated by tests performed. Continue normal PM & sample interval.”

Consistent 1100ppm zinc and phosphors

 

[RyanM]

The UOA's on Amsoil look pretty good too. Some showed zinc levels of up to 1400.

 

[mikegronholz]

Good news to report ...

Stopped by the local Wally World this evening. My findings:

Rotella Synthetic 5w-40 - still SL
Mobil 1 for Diesel 5w-40 - "New Formula" ... SL
Mobil 1 10w30 and 10w40 High Mileage - "New Formula" ... SL
2 bottles of GTX 10w30 - SL

Somre Bad news ...

Delo - all varieties - SM
Delvac - all varieties - SM
All other dino oils - SM


Looks like Mobil will keep the SL on the high mileage and diesel as they are identifed as "new formula".

 

[1985xjlaredo]

Well Ill just keep using my crappy old valvoline. With 200,000 on one and 250,000 on the other I dont seem to have the need to be so indepth to whats in my oil.

 

[RyanM]

Well Ill just keep using my crappy old valvoline. With 200,000 on one and 250,000 on the other I dont seem to have the need to be so indepth to whats in my oil.

The crappy new Valvoline SM is not the same. Zinc and Ph reductions

 

[1985xjlaredo]

So what do I need to add to my oil to raise the levels

 

[Ecomike]

So what do I need to add to my oil to raise the levels

First try to find the old formula anywhere you can, it will have the API symbol and an SL spec on it. If says API / SM then it is the low Zinc and low phosphorous, new formula.

Then consider stocking up on the SL if you can find it, while you can still get it.

For the SM formula there are several additives most of which are also being discontinued (all listed below in this thread), but can still be found here and there. STP's blue bottle of Oil additive is still widely available, and 1 to 1/1/2 bottles (15 oz bottle) is enough to raise the SM formula zinc/phosphate concentration back the SL formula level.

 

[scottmcneal]

okay, does the dura lube work? slick 50? cause if it does work then you can put that in next oil change to help bearing life an cam life...i'm no expert but i'll put my 2 cents in

 

[Ecomike]

okay, does the dura lube work? slick 50? cause if it does work then you can put that in next oil change to help bearing life an cam life...i'm no expert but i'll put my 2 cents in

The only place I would put those two products is my trash can.

I am wondering if the product Restore might have some potential, but so far no one has answered my question about that product. I might contact the Restore people in few days to see what they are willing to divulge.

I have no idea (yet) what is in duralube and their product containers do not say what is in it.

 

[scottmcneal]

ok, hopeing you could tell me.. my old motorhome lost its oilpump rod on the freeway an it did over heat an knocked alot but keep running till i got off freeway.. it had slick 50 from p o in it

 

[RichP]

ok, hopeing you could tell me.. my old motorhome lost its oilpump rod on the freeway an it did over heat an knocked alot but keep running till i got off freeway.. it had slick 50 from p o in it

I attribute that more to the crank splashing oil up than slick 50....