Need help: Front shock mounting ideas

[CumminsJeep]

Ok, so I'm just starting to get a little into this highspeed stuff with my XJ. I picked up a set of 10" Fox 2.0 resi and mounted them up with JKS upper and lower shock adapters. The problem is, I want to get more uptravel out of them. Im running about 5" of lift in the front and want to get an extra inch to inch and a half of uptravel. Everytime i try and do something serious I bottom out. I have prothanes in there now to try and soften the blow, but its not enough due to my lack of uptravel. I can always throw a hockey puck under the prothane to raise it up a bit just for a temporary fix I cant afford air bumps yet, so they are temporary. the upper bump tower is just a plate so it doesnt destroy the prothane.
Here is a crappy cell phone pic cause thats all I have right now.

now, i was contemplating doing something like this:
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg319/digitalc0nvict/Rich/DSCF3246.jpg

and using these mounts cause i already have a set laying around. they are flat tho and not curved for an axle tube.
http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/paired-bracket-175tube-p-30.html

I have Currie LCA mounts so I dont think strength is an issue. However, these shocks are heim style. So what and I supposed to put in between the shock and the mount? the JKS upper and lower mounts used a cone shaped piece that pressed against the heim. does anyone sell just this piece?

any other options out there besides making some sort of upper shock hoop and this idea?

Thanks guys :cheers:

 

[GrimmJeeper]

First off, get rid of the BPE's and move the shock mount down like the pic you linked from Jim's build. Use Misalignment spacers to take up the room between the heim and the mount, that's the proper way to do it, and that is what it's called.

Second, your hose is just asking to get ripped off pointing towards the tire like that.

Third, can't do much about uptravel, aside from revalving your shocks to have stiffer compression or getting some springs with a higher spring rate. What coils are those, and how old are they? If they are RE coils everyone I've talked to personally has the same problem with them when they start going fast, they just don't have the spring rate to handle big hits, they always bottom out. That's part of why they ride so nice on the street, they're a pretty soft coil considering what you're putting them through.


Hope this helps out some.

 

[CumminsJeep]

From what I know they are Clayton/Rock krawler. I bought them off someone. I know I have to turn the shock so the hoses arent sticking out like that. For some reason when I mounted them, I did it that way. Dont ask me why. But that was going to get done when I did the mounts.

As for coils, any recommendations for a stiffer spring rate coil? or something a little better in the whoops?

 

[crazyjim]

I had Full Traction 3.5" front coils on my XJ with ACOS Pro's (you could substitute coil spacers) and loved them. They performed great. My RE springs are way too soft.

The major player is Deaver, they build a 5.5 off the shelf Jeepspeed coil that is a winning coil.

 

[CumminsJeep]

I had Full Traction 3.5" front coils on my XJ with ACOS Pro's (you could substitute coil spacers) and loved them. They performed great. My RE springs are way too soft.

The major player is Deaver, they build a 5.5 off the shelf Jeepspeed coil that is a winning coil.

Thanks Jim. any recommendations in the 4.5" range? or would a 3.5" coils with a 1.5" spacer be a better option? ACOS pro is out of my price range right now.

I hate to bring anything to anywhere from JF but I did find this. you guys know how accurate this is?
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f11/springs-heights-their-spring-rates-613756/

 

[vetteboy]

That table is junk, for the most part. Just as an example, these are my old Rusty's 4.5" springs next to the Rusty's 6.5" springs:

No way in hell they're the same rate. Also from experience I'd say both are stiffer than the RE counterparts.

I still have both sets of springs (the Rusty's 4.5 and 6.5) sitting around if you want to give them a shot. In the meanwhile I'd probably add some compression valving as well.

 

[CumminsJeep]

Thanks Chris, I may take you up on that. I did some more research last night and found that RE 3.5 coils were (depending on the source) were anywhere from 220-245 lb spring rate. Those were some of the stiffest I found besides BDS 3" coils that were about the same. and of course the deavers were up there. Rustys coils are supposed to be around 150 for the standard duty ones and 180 for the HD ones. Im still not exactly sure what the valving is on the Fox's either but Im guessing they are 40/60 but im not positive. They will get re-valved when I have the time and know-how to do it

So what would be a good spring rate for something like my build around 4.5" of lift that sees whoops from time to time as well as rocks? I want a good multipurpose rig.

 

[toyotawrench]

cumminsjeep, I am in the EXACT same boat as you running 10 inch fox 2.0pro wit rezi, and re coils, I used aluminum style bumps (lower) and a urethane up top. And at 55mph across azusa canyon which is not super flat, I was on the bumps with every big hit. Pretty much exactly what mike said I am going to do. Plus I am going to rebuild, and re valve my fox's with a more stiffness involved, they are real smooth at speed, but to soft. What are you doing as far as rear springs shocks go?


peace
ted

 

[CumminsJeep]

cumminsjeep, I am in the EXACT same boat as you running 10 inch fox 2.0pro wit rezi, and re coils, I used aluminum style bumps (lower) and a urethane up top. And at 55mph across azusa canyon which is not super flat, I was on the bumps with every big hit. Pretty much exactly what mike said I am going to do. Plus I am going to rebuild, and re valve my fox's with a more stiffness involved, they are real smooth at speed, but to soft. What are you doing as far as rear springs shocks go?


peace
ted

I agree, the Fox's are super smooth with the way they are now, but the stiffness isnt the best at speed. Right now Im running Rustys 4.5" rear leafs and stock length Skyjacker nitros. They are temporary just because I just did the 8.8 swap and I had them laying around. I figured I wasnt going to buy good shocks until I go through the floor and make rear shock hoops in the trunk. I want to run Fox 2.0 Resi in the back eventually. But I really want to get the front squared away for now, then worry about that rear.

 

[GrimmJeeper]

You need to keep shock fade in mind as well once you start going fast, the hotter they get the softer they are going to become as the oil heats up inside. I've gotten my 14" 2.5 kings so hot you can't touch em. Revalving them stiffer isn't going to fix the problem if the springs are still too soft, it's just going to put a band-aid on it until you really get moving.

 

[FatCity]

Just to chime in (sorry, I didnt read the whole thread)

3 things:

1: Lower your lower shock mount to get the travel.

2: You have to get rid of those JKS upper mounts. They'll push right thru the uni-body and put and bust your master cylinder off.

3ont mount the shock side ways on the side of the LCA mount. Heavy duty or not, over time it will tear the LCA mount off. To much force there.

:cheers:

 

[vetteboy]

I don't believe at all that the RE's are 220+ lb/in. Stock XJ's are around 180 and the RE springs ride like a boat.

My 4.5" springs did OK but I never really did any go-fast stuff with 'em. When I did the 6.5" springs I installed the airbumps at the same time, but that setup kicked much more ass than the initial one. Even with meager Bilstein 5125's. I did a few local races like that and it always rode pretty nice.

I agree that revalving the shocks isn't the complete answer, but if your shocks are Fox 40/60, you could definitely use more compression if you're trying to go fast. That would be a typical setup for a trail riding/street/slow crawler rig. If you have some spare time, for a free baseline I'd try swapping the compression and rebound shims and seeing what that does for you...typically for speed you want the opposite characteristics of a competition rock crawler.

Another cheap bandaid do consider would be shock bumps...I have them on my coilovers:

I got mine from Poly Performance:

http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/Eibach-Micro-Cellular-Foam-Shaft-Bump-Stop-p-1354.html

You'd probably need the bump base as well for the 5/8" shaft. If you're changing valving anyway you might as well try 'em. I've heard they're nothing more than a stock TJ bumpstop but I haven't verified that yet.

Regarding shock fade...not gonna happen out here. If you run a 50+ mile race here with 2.0's they get warm but with the exception of 2.0 airshocks, we rarely see shocks fade significantly. The added damping and control of 2.5's is another thing though.

 

[CumminsJeep]

Thanks a lot for the info Chris. Down the road, I definitely want airbumps so I can actually have something go-fast worthy up there. for now, Im going to do the lower shock mounts on the LCA mount, change the coils to something a little more go-fast worthy, and take it for a shakedown run. If it feels like it still needs more compression, I will just swap the compression/rebound shims like you said, Chris, and see what happens. I have never re-valved these shocks so I have to figure out how to do that as well.

anyone have any coil recommendations besides deaver?

 

[Cache96]

I run the Iron rock offroad springs and they work really good.. i mean i havent tried the deavers but they ride pretty nice to me..i guess ryan is going to have to take me on a test run in glamis so i can test the deavers.

 

[CumminsJeep]

anyone got any other coil choices? it seems 200 coil rate seems like something to go to...

 

[Zuul99]

Ok, so I'm just starting to get a little into this highspeed stuff with my XJ. I picked up a set of 10" Fox 2.0 resi and mounted them up with JKS upper and lower shock adapters. The problem is, I want to get more uptravel out of them. Im running about 5" of lift in the front and want to get an extra inch to inch and a half of uptravel. Everytime i try and do something serious I bottom out. I have prothanes in there now to try and soften the blow, but its not enough due to my lack of uptravel. I can always throw a hockey puck under the prothane to raise it up a bit just for a temporary fix I cant afford air bumps yet, so they are temporary. the upper bump tower is just a plate so it doesnt destroy the prothane.
Here is a crappy cell phone pic cause thats all I have right now.

now, i was contemplating doing something like this:
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg319/digitalc0nvict/Rich/DSCF3246.jpg

and using these mounts cause i already have a set laying around. they are flat tho and not curved for an axle tube.
http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/paired-bracket-175tube-p-30.html

I have Currie LCA mounts so I dont think strength is an issue. However, these shocks are heim style. So what and I supposed to put in between the shock and the mount? the JKS upper and lower mounts used a cone shaped piece that pressed against the heim. does anyone sell just this piece?

any other options out there besides making some sort of upper shock hoop and this idea?

Thanks guys :cheers:

Dang Dude how much do shocks like that cost? Fox Shocks is CRAZY, there bike stuff is wicked awesome(and wicked $$$ $1500 for a bike fork )

 

[GrimmJeeper]

Fox 2.0's like that aren't all that pricey, start getting into 2.5's with bypass tubes, or coilovers, and they start getting out of control

 

[tbburg]

Dang Dude how much do shocks like that cost?

That looks like a 2.0 smooth body resi. 'Havent found a price list for Fox yet(god their web site sucks), but Kings in that size/config. list for about $300.00/ea.

 

[CumminsJeep]

I actually got those shocks at a swap meet at englishtown race track for 150 bucks. I talked the guy down from 200. but they were exactly what i was looking for. New they are around 200-225 with the resivoir and around 150 without. These are just a lower level "jeepspeed" type shock but are perfect for what I want to do with it.

A little update. I did my shock mounts and please critique all you want to, I wont get offended. Im here to learn from you guys.

Started by cutting the old perch out and welded in the new Ruff Stuff mounts I had laying around to the Currie LCA mounts

Then I added some strength to it. This ties into the shock mount as well as the LCA mount. Doesnt look the prettiest but SHOULD do the trick.

Then I painted it up and got some grade 8 hardware and mounted them up.

Again, this isnt the prettiest looking but I like the way they turned out and they should do the trick. I have 5 inches of shock shaft showing on each side also. I was going for about 4.5" but I figure with me and a passenger in there, I should be right around that mark.
I havent done much testing yet however driving on the road feels better. the shocks seem to soak up bumps better. I still have to do a flex test with it to adjust my bumps and also to see if the shock is going to hit the mount at full droop. If it does, ill grind it down for more clearance. There is some space back there so it should be fine, but i will test it. Im also taking my oil pan into consideration but I'm not running a truss yet or jumping this thing without one so that can be taken care of if my bumps are all set.

 

[silverslk]

Looks good. If you are going for jeepspeed style I wouldn't trust the flex for bumps idea. I would pull the springs and bump it before your shocks bottom when lifting whole axle at same time (not one side only). Other than that....keep it up!!!