Mystery front end clunk - no it's not TRE's.

[VAhasnoWAVES]

with everything buttoned so tightly... id suspect the hard joints at the frame end of your long arms. i recently rode in a rig with brand new JJs all around. even though it was tight, it clunked. whats the width, bolt size, and thread? maybe you could replace it with something like the enduro joint from barnes?

 

[blistovmhz]

Tried swapping joints just cause I happened to have a spare set. No change, and no signs of control arms slipping on mounts.

 

[yossarian19]

Steering gear bolts & spacer all intact & torqued down? Pitman arm is tight?
Sway bar bushings all good?

 

[blistovmhz]

Steering gear bolts & spacer all intact & torqued down? Pitman arm is tight?
Sway bar bushings all good?

Yes, yes, yes, and yes. Just replaced the steering box (another durango box), which has been replaced 3 times. Spacer hasn't been in use in years as I built my own. Torqued well. Pitman is is tight and sway bar bushings are tight, and the clunk happens with or without the sway bars connected.

Something internal to the steering box might make sense, except that the problem has persisted through several boxes.

 

[rockclimber]

pictures of your suspension setup would help.

 

[trippled]

Maybe it's in your head and you need a lobatamy? :dunno:

I had some weird pops from my front end and turned out to be the front frame area around the steering box flexing enough to make noise. Built a big brace to tie both sides together and grab the box as well. Eliminated 98% of the noise. That was with a pretty stout bumper too.

 

[blistovmhz]

Maybe it's in your head and you need a lobatamy? :dunno:

I had some weird pops from my front end and turned out to be the front frame area around the steering box flexing enough to make noise. Built a big brace to tie both sides together and grab the box as well. Eliminated 98% of the noise. That was with a pretty stout bumper too.

Still considering that. The entire driver side is plated and braced to the passenger side, but I don't have the box itself braced. I was going to build a pitman arm brace, but with the sway bar still installed in the stock location, there's really no room so I was putting it off until I build a proper anti-rock bar. I don't think it's the frame though, as it's only on high speed stuff, and goes away if I keep the front brakes loaded.

 

[TRCM]

Have you tried driving with the front drive shaft completely removed to see if it does it then also ?

I ask, cuz I have come across this same situation (no clunk when braking or going downhill) in rear driveshafts, and it turned out it was a very small wear ridge on the splines in the slip joint on the driveshaft, and when the driveshaft compressed (going downhill or over small bumps) the splines would slide over this ridge, & the sound was amplifies by the hollow driveshaft tube. It also could be heard when the driveshaft stretched back out to normal length as you took back off or let off the brakes.

You could also lube the slip joint up real well and see if it gets less.

Sounds like almost everything else has been covered.

Does it do it if you stop real suddenly ? Being on the brakes forces the axle to compress enough to get past the ridge so it isn't noticed.

 

[cdn_xj]

I was chasing a front end clunk for months, although it felt like years. Turned out to be the track bar frame-side bracket mounting bolts. The weren't super loose, but loose enough to allow the bracket to shift slightly. I really had to reef on them to snug them to the point that the bracket would not shift anymore.

 

[TRCM]

Did you ever figure this out ???

 

[blistovmhz]

Not really. Given up.
I was just under it a few minutes ago trying to confirm why it's got a slight left pull, but I can't figure that out either. It LOOKS like the passenger camber is slightly more negative than the driver, but measurements suggest otherwise. While I was under there, I started beating on everything to see if I could reproduce the clunk. Discovered that my pinion is loose, which doesn't surprise me as I'm subjecting that poor 30 to far more abuse than it was ever intended for, but not quite the right sound. Also noticed that my WJ calipers make a somewhat similar noise to the clunk, and they very well could be it, but that's just their design, and I don't recall if I had the clunking before the WJ swap.

Either way, while under there I also discovered more. The list:
* Brand new BJ's that were installed maybe 2000km ago, are starting to loosen off again.
* Calipers bounce around a little, despite being almost brand new.
* Driver u-joint needs to be replaced. JUST replaced them maybe 7 or 8 wheeling trips ago. They're in chromolies, so this is definitely a u-joint strength issue and not a shaft problem.
* Pinion loose. Looks like I chewed the new bearings in under a year.
* Not entirely sure, but looks like my passenger tube is very slightly bent.

All this combined, I think it's just time for a big upgrade. I've been waffling on tons for a long time, but the extra 600lbs+ and 2" decreased ground clearance just don't appeal to me. I didn't really WANT to go to 37's to make up for the clearance, because that sorta takes a lot of the challenge out of all the nearby trails. Plus, that 600lbs really sucks. I've researched the shit outta building some 609's (front and rear), but I'm not sure I feel I can justify the $3000 Tru9 third for the front. Rear is easy. Any JY 9" will do just fine with a good truss and some 60 inners. Can do the rear for easily under $1000, with a lunchbox included. But the front, I'm looking at $800 for the housing, $3000 for the third member, and then at least another $1000 for the inners and outers with brakes. $6000 for axles is just seeming a touch ridiculous, when it's really only saving me 300 or so pounds.

At this point I'm on the hunt for a deal on a KP, driver drop 60. I'll just wave goodbye to my 6.5s 0-60, and at least 3-4mpg, to gain (probably) lifetime indestructability.

 

[TRCM]

Why would it take the challenge out of the triails ?

You go up 2" in tire size, but you lost 2" in clearance.....basically w a wash....still just as challenging....just ain't got to worry about breaking anything as quickly.

and anyone of the 1st 4 from your list could be the clunk

 

[blistovmhz]

37's, regardless of the same ground clearance, will make things WAY easier. If I go 37's, I sorta want to be beefy enough to at least try to keep up with the buggies.
I've seriously considered building a 609 for the front. Looking at the prices on housings and knuckles again, and honestly, for what it'd cost to build a used 60 the RIGHT way for my rig, I could probably just build a 609 with all new parts for the same price, but 300-350lbs lighter, and have 3" more clearance than I'll ever get out of a shaved 60. Doing more digging on that now. I figure $3000ish for a 60 properly. 609 is looking like a close option.

Yea, any one of those 4 could be the issue, but the issue has never gone away when I fixed all 4, so it's PROBABLY still something else.

 

[rockclimber]

a 609 is not going to be 300 lbs lighter than a 60.

 

[md21722]

I heard some people comment that JKS control arms the way they are made can clunk. I have lowers and notice that if I grease them the clunking dampens but usually comes back pretty quick. I live with it. Maybe you have a similar issue with your control arm design, whatever you are running.

 

[blistovmhz]

Depends how you build it. I wouldn't be shooting for a d60, which is sorta the point. Most guys clock a stock 78ish 60 in at around 550 +/- 25lbs. Most of the 609 builds I've seen are anywhere from 280 to 400lbs depending primarily on tube thickness. I don't need 1/2" thick tubes. I'd also be looking at either fabbing some knuckles or MAYBE going with the Spidertrax, but even they seem a touch overkill unless you're building a buggy.
I figure my target weight of around 300lbs is very reasonable considering I've seen 609's built for buggies weighing in at under 350.
Call it 200-250lbs < D60, but with almost 3" more clearance, third member (cause **** pulling the axle for gears), and I can stick the pumpkin anywhere I damn well please instead of having to work around the 60.

But, I talk a lot of shit about my build plans and some of it never gets done. Axles are one of those things that's just kind got pushed back repeatedly, but I'm trying to convince myself to pull the trigger and just do it, by keeping in mind that a properly built 609 is going to be far superior to anything that could be done with a 60, and it realistically should outlast several builds. If I'd just done it 5 years ago, I'd have paid for it by now in parts not exploded .

 

[blistovmhz]

I heard some people comment that JKS control arms the way they are made can clunk. I have lowers and notice that if I grease them the clunking dampens but usually comes back pretty quick. I live with it. Maybe you have a similar issue with your control arm design, whatever you are running.

It is entirely possible. They're RC arms. I'd have thrown them out years ago, but they just keep surviving (the one RC product that doesn't explode at the sight of dirt). I've checked the bushings tonnes of times and I can't find any play in them. I will completely lose my mind if swapping out the axle to a 60 or 609 doesn't solve the problem and it turns out it was the arms all along.

 

[rockclimber]

Depends how you build it. I wouldn't be shooting for a d60, which is sorta the point. Most guys clock a stock 78ish 60 in at around 550 +/- 25lbs. Most of the 609 builds I've seen are anywhere from 280 to 400lbs depending primarily on tube thickness. I don't need 1/2" thick tubes. I'd also be looking at either fabbing some knuckles or MAYBE going with the Spidertrax, but even they seem a touch overkill unless you're building a buggy.
I figure my target weight of around 300lbs is very reasonable considering I've seen 609's built for buggies weighing in at under 350.
Call it 200-250lbs < D60, but with almost 3" more clearance, third member (cause **** pulling the axle for gears), and I can stick the pumpkin anywhere I damn well please instead of having to work around the 60.

But, I talk a lot of shit about my build plans and some of it never gets done. Axles are one of those things that's just kind got pushed back repeatedly, but I'm trying to convince myself to pull the trigger and just do it, by keeping in mind that a properly built 609 is going to be far superior to anything that could be done with a 60, and it realistically should outlast several builds. If I'd just done it 5 years ago, I'd have paid for it by now in parts not exploded .

$10,000.00 gets you a currie housing with a Truhi9 center section, complete with 1 ton outers and 35 spline shafts. just needs brackets.

hop to it.

 

[blistovmhz]

Where's the fun in buying stuff?

 

[dan1977p]

It is entirely possible. They're RC arms. I'd have thrown them out years ago, but they just keep surviving (the one RC product that doesn't explode at the sight of dirt). I've checked the bushings tonnes of times and I can't find any play in them. I will completely lose my mind if swapping out the axle to a 60 or 609 doesn't solve the problem and it turns out it was the arms all along.

I had no way to recreate the noise in my RC arms either except by driving it. I ended up tightening the joints as tight as I could get them with their spanner wrench and the clunking went away.