Mechanic rant

[iwannadie]

So, I just wanted to rant and maybe get ideas on how to handle the situation.

My moms car was taken to a local shop, I know the owner/main guy through a local car forum. I've had minor work on the jeep done there over the years and he always has been honest and great about everything. My moms car is a 99 sable, it had a blown head gasket and I recommended she take it to this shop. The guy looked it over and wanted something like $800 to it which seemed worth while to me.

He gets the car and started working on it, later that day we got a call saying the head is warped slightly and a few bad valve seals. He said they use a local machine shop and got a good rate to do the work. He offered not to do the head work but said he would really rather do it just to be sure it's 100% so we do it. I wasn't shocked with the age of the car and hoped he was just being thorough and wanted the car running perfect. It brought the bill up to $1200.

My mom got the car back and I think the next day it was loosing coolant, bubbling out of the over flow bottle(closed cooling system). We call and they tow it back to the shop and call the next day to say it was a bad thermostat and is going to be about $100 to fix. I first don't like that if it was bad they didn't replace it while it was all apart, then I don't like that as the cause for the leak. How the bad thermostat caused a major leak the day after the head gasket repair and not one over heating problem before is beyond me. She pays for that to be done however and just decides to move on with the car.

A few days later, again coolant is bubbling out of the over flow bottle. They come again to tow it. They find this time that the over flow bottle has stripped threads. I just recently replaced the over flow bottle less than 2 months before they got the car. How the stripped threads were missed the 2 previous times in the shop and how they got stripped to me are a mystery. They offer to fix it for just the cost of the part this time after I told them I would replace the bottle myself rather than pay them for something that easy.

With the car back it was driven a few days then my mom said she saw tons of smoke out of the back of the car and it suddenly ran bad and died. They came and towed the car off the side of the road. They got it to their shop and found the lower radiator hose had burst and the car over heated so bad it shut itself off. They replaced the hose and it started but ran bad with signs of the head gasket blown and the water pump just gushing coolant. Basically now the engine ruined after just paying over $1300 to fix it.

Should I trust the guy and just accept the hose didn't show sign of wear before it suddenly blew and each previous issue was a mistake. Each time they had the car they said they drove it and let it idle to make sure nothing was leaking or going to go bad. They used at least a full tank of gas over the 3 times there. Would I be out of line to ask for an engine swap to be done at just the cost of parts?

 

[codyj86]

Absolutly ask for a engine swap. I doubt theyd give free labor, but it should be discounted. It probably had a cracked block from the get-go. I literally just did heads on an 89 3.0 (friends car so cost parts and no labor for them) and had the exact same problems...

 

[souske]

Cody, please disable your tapatalk sig.

 

[Talyn]

$400 to surface a head and replace valve seals is ridiculous. Maybe if there was a valve job included in that it would make sense.

I would bet that they stripped the overflow threads

Did they have to remove the t-stat or the lower rad hose to get the head off?

 

[Darky]

How badly did your mom let it overheat when she blew the head gasket the first time? Maybe it damaged the block from the get go but wasn't obvious.

 

[iwannadie]

How badly did your mom let it overheat when she blew the head gasket the first time? Maybe it damaged the block from the get go but wasn't obvious.

It never over heated before the head gasket job, I found exhaust in the cooling system which led to the blown head gasket.

 

[GrimmJeeper]

$400 to surface a head and replace valve seals is ridiculous. Maybe if there was a valve job included in that it would make sense.

x2 even with shop markup that is way over priced.

How badly did your mom let it overheat when she blew the head gasket the first time? Maybe it damaged the block from the get go but wasn't obvious.

I would be VERY skeptical that overheating it cracked the block, but I suppose it is possible.

did she get any type of warranty on the work from the shop? usually head gasket work is warrantied for at least 30 days. Even without a written warranty I would call a lawyer, stop talking to the shop.

just my 2¢

 

[iwannadie]

I haven't herd back from the shop, I sent 1 email basically recapping the events to them and asking them what my options are. My mom said that the shop told her in the first phone call that since the lower hose blew it wasn't anything they could help with or warranty. Basically they claimed their work was fine and the old hose blew the engine.

 

[GrimmJeeper]

any shop worth a damn should have inspected the entire cooling system when doing a head gasket job, I'd be furious if this happened to my mother. In lieu of calling a lawyer you can also submit a statement to your state's Bureau of Automotive Repair and they can determine if it is worth pursuing legal action against the shop. They will go after them on your behalf if they feel the shop is in the wrong here.

 

[kastein]

My bet is that the thermostat stuck closed and blew the hose... or the overpressure in the cooling system from the compression->cooling system leak blew it. Either points to shoddy parts or work on their part.

 

[iwannadie]

I am going to go monday to pick the car up and talk face to face with the guy. I am cool headed, I don't yell or make a scene but I will be pretty stern and make it clear what my plans are and I will not just take this as an expensive loss. Either, I will get a refund for the work done, a motor put back in it or I will do all in my power to waste his time defending it in court and drag his name through the mud in the process.

I don't see a Bureau of Automotive Repair for arizona... Maybe my quick search didn't turn it up, I just see California.

 

[H8PVMT]

Could always go through the better business bureau, a bad rating from them can seriously hurt a business plus their response to your complaint is recorded and you can use it in a lawsuit if need be

 

[Alex E]

Sounds like the shop didn't quote the job out properly. I'm not sure what the hourly rate is down there for shops but 1,200 sounds cheap.

One reason why the price caught my attention is because on a 13 year old engine I would have resurfaced both heads, done the T-stat from the get go, recommended all new hoses, water pump, etc.

As for the bottle, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt, but I see your point (how come it wasn't stripped the last two visits).

I guess the point I'm trying to imply is...if they recommended to do everything and do the job properly they would have covered their ass and quoted the "worst case" scenario and let the customer decide what to do and not do. Sounds to me they either did the job as cheaply as possible to make sure the customer would "approve or ok" the repair (which is intellectually dishonest) OR they honestly didn't have enough experience or knowledge on a job like that and shouldn't have done a job like that to begin with. I can see both sides of the story seeing how I'm a mechanic my self and a service writer. But I can tell you one thing for sure, not doing hoses and a T-stat on any older car like that is suicide for the shop. Just watch out because all the blame for the job is going to fall on your mother for "continuing to drive the vehicle". I know it sucks but obviously thats their fall back position, she would have been fine if they did the job correctly to begin with.

FYI, those engines crack heads all the time...and I mean ALL the time. I use leak detection dye in the coolant and put the cooling system under pressure over night, then I disable the injectors and fuel system and crank the engine in the morning. Then I pull all the plugs and use UV light to see which cylinder is cracked or leaking coolant. Works like a charm!

 

[iwannadie]

That's the thing, the guy was so forward about wanting to do the job right that he really suggested doing the head work. He told me that the first time it was in the shop and we picked it up, that he went over the whole car checked all the fluids and tire pressure even. How you could miss or just not change a radiator hose that looks old enough that it is about to blow is beyond me. At this point, I don't even know if it was the hose that blew, that is just what they are telling me.

Then, after being back in the shop twice for coolant leaks I could only assume they would look closer at the hoses and suggest changing them out. I am also pretty certain the lower hose was replaced within the last year maybe 2. I don't think a hose would burst on its' own like that so soon.

I am starting to wonder, did they put the head gasket on backwards or something and it blocked cooling passages and it finally over heated bad enough or something else crazy.

Oh, for the rate, the guy gave us fleet rate at $75 an hour which is high to me but I guess not bad really.

 

[Alex E]

Its hard to say. Sounds like something happened, either they over looked a bad part or someone did something incorrect. Was it "leaking" coolant or just "consuming" coolant? Either way after a head job, no matter how poor the workmanship, you should never add coolant, have leaks, or deal with over heating. Hell, you could have other issues too like the cooling fan doesn't even work and could be causing other issues. IMHO is the job was done "poorly" you'd notice in 12 months or so when, the head gasket sweats a little, or the intake manifold leaks a little oil or coolant, or something of the sort. Simple annoying crap that should have been done properly but its a bearable issue. Not major issues days or even 6 months later. A poor mechanics work shows in 6 months, a good mechanics work lasts a matter of years or as long as the factory intended it. A F'ed up job or a major mistake you'd know when you first fire the engine OR drive it for a day or two.

 

[iwannadie]

Yea, I can't see how the shop wants no responsibility for this. I can see if they did the head gasket then it had an unrelated problem showed up. However, after leaking coolant twice within a day after getting it back from them, paying to fix it two more times then this happening... Seems pretty cut and dry to me who is at fault.

 

[Alex E]

Don't start accusing the shop or implying its 100 percent their fault but see what they are willing to do on their end to get the situation straightened out. Also, if they are smart, a small loss out of pocket works in their favor in the long run. Losing a good customer hurts more in the long run then paying out of pocket to make things right up front, not to mention it can ruin your reputation. I know 1,200 bucks wont change my life style one bit or make me retire early. In retrospect 1,200 bucks is nothing. Its hard earned money and its a crappy loss for a business or a customer but its nothing in the long run. Did you pay with a credit card? You know you can call your bank and do a stop payment right? I think you can do that with a check too...but I'm not certain.

 

[iwannadie]

I am certainly not going to blame them. My email to the guy was more asking him what my options where, nothing blaming anyone, just asking questions and being professional. I don't want to corner them with blame at all.

Alex, what would you recommend I ask for as a resolution. I offered the option of them putting a motor in with no labor cost and I would pay for the motor. I thought that was more than generous on my part. I figured that would cost them the least just their time, it would show I have trust in their work and also that I am not looking for them to take 100% blame.

 

[iwannadie]

Just an update as I have gotten nowhere.

The shop emailed me today finally offering something. They said they can get me a used motor with 90k miles on it for $750(wow) and that they would put it in for me, at the usual shop rate. However they offered me free oil and coolant....

I was hoping that if I took a loss and bought a motor(I was going to go with a rebuilt from napa, I herd napa does well with rebuilt motors) that they would take a loss on their time to put it in. I figure them loosing 10 hours would suck but at least they are not loosing money in the situation and everyone ends up happy. The head gasket was I think a 10 hour job so they can look at it as doing 2 10 hour jobs for half price. I would still be out 2 grand for the motor but that would be acceptable just to get past this.

 

[Johnnie Walker]

Pretty crappy situation. At least you know where NOT to go again. But next time, do NOT spend 1200$ on a maybe 1500$ car, sell it and get something else.