long arms... too long?

[Goatman]

Just moving this back to the top, to go along with the other long arm discussion......FWIW.

 

[jnackos]

Just when I have my mind made up to get a LA kit (I was going to order it tomorrow) you guys have to sink my dreams!

Clearance was a concern I had with the LA kits - I have been looking at the Full Traction kit. The mid-length arms look like a nice compromise and I really like the way you moved the axle mounting points up so they don't get whacked.

However, I am not a welder or a fabricator - I would like to learn, but time doesn't allow. So now that you have torpedoed my long and hard earned decision (I've been lurking other XJ boards for months - I like this one much more), what is a good "bolt on" compromise? I guess it wouldn't have to be bolt on, but I don't think I will be able to get someone else to do all of the fab work for the ~$2k I would pay for the LA kit. I would like to have a good compromise between having a very capable trail rig, but also be able to use it as a DD. Any suggestions?

 

[pfogle]

Don't let this discussion scare you away from long arms. They are better then short arms once you have a lot of lift. The Mid arms are nice, but probably nothing for the beginner to work on, or for those on time constraints. Maybe I'll design something like that next winter when the rig is down, but for now, gonna move forward with my long arms....maybe cut them down to about 30" or so though.

Maybe we can get some LA people to post a few pics of their setups, and actually see just how much clearance they're losing compared to Richards.

 

[awr94903]

Try the Carolina Rock Shop Unlimited (CRSU) long arms, I have a set of theirs siting in my garage. I believe they're 28" long, they use RE joints and are priced very resonably. http://www.carolinarockshop.com/

 

[Beezil]

Just moving this back to the top, to go along with the other long arm discussion......FWIW.

oh goatie, you are always lookin out for the long-armers.....what a guy!

 

[Goatman]

oh goatie, you are always lookin out for the long-armers.....what a guy!

Actually, I've been quiet about it for quite awhile, but we seem to have an uptick in activity, so I couldn't resist. You have your fun and I have mine.....

 

[Goatman]

Just when I have my mind made up to get a LA kit (I was going to order it tomorrow) you guys have to sink my dreams!

Clearance was a concern I had with the LA kits - I have been looking at the Full Traction kit. The mid-length arms look like a nice compromise and I really like the way you moved the axle mounting points up so they don't get whacked.

However, I am not a welder or a fabricator - I would like to learn, but time doesn't allow. So now that you have torpedoed my long and hard earned decision (I've been lurking other XJ boards for months - I like this one much more), what is a good "bolt on" compromise? I guess it wouldn't have to be bolt on, but I don't think I will be able to get someone else to do all of the fab work for the ~$2k I would pay for the LA kit. I would like to have a good compromise between having a very capable trail rig, but also be able to use it as a DD. Any suggestions?

If you have to bolt it on, do a good search for a kit with the best clearance, or go with RE drop brackets. If I had my choice between a long arm bolted to the bottom of the frame rail or the drop brackets, I'd go with the drop brackets every time. If the arms can be mounted up inside the frame rails, I'd go with long arms, but still shorter than most are running.

Part of my point of view on this topic is that a personal design goal I stick to is to not do any modification to my rig that causes a loss of ground clearance......the idea being that mods are supposed to increase trail performance, not compromise it.

 

[Nay]

Maybe we can get some LA people to post a few pics of their setups, and actually see just how much clearance they're losing compared to Richards.

Long arms have a huge clearance loss compared to Goatman's setup. But unless you are going to build a D44 front end from scratch, you aren't going to have his setup.

The question of clearance arises primarily from how much lift you want and what type of wheeling you will do. What a bolt-on long arm kit allows you to do, from a suspension geometry perspective, is lift an XJ 6"-8" while retaining surprisingly decent road manners. With this much lift and say 35" tires, clearance is rarely a problem with long arms until you get into the more extreme stuff. This is, IMHO, why long arms are popular. And in my experience, they are a massive improvement over a stock mounted setup or a drop bracket solution.

So I think Goatman has a very good solution, and I'd be doing something very similar if I was starting over...it's just that by the time you decide you need to custom build a D44 (or D60) front end you probably either have the fabrication skills or a relationship with a shop to do the work for you to your specs. In which case you can copy or improve on these designs. But as far as bolt-on compromises go (that being redundant as bolt-on is almost always a compromise) long arms are probably the best thing out there if you want to go big.

Nay

 

[andyr354]

Goatman:

Do you have an upper arm on the drivers side? I can't spot one in the pics.

 

[Paul S]

Long arms have a huge clearance loss compared to Goatman's setup. But unless you are going to build a D44 front end from scratch, you aren't going to have his setup.

There's no reason one cannot copy Goatman's mid arm on a 30, which is exactly what I did. The only thing I did different was to retain 2 uppers, therefor I made mine longer than Richard's as I wanted them the exact same length as my lowers.
I don't think the guys with long arms tucked inside the frame have any real clearance issues, but IMO mounting them below the frame is a huge step back from stock short arms, & drop brackets don't belong anywhere on the trail.
Paul

 

[Goatman]

Goatman:

Do you have an upper arm on the drivers side? I can't spot one in the pics.

No, only one upper arm, on the passenger side. I went with a johnny joint on the axle end of the upper arm, to get away from front axle wrap caused by halfway worn out rubber bushings in the axle housing. Since you need some bushing deflection with a four link (unless the arms are equal length), and I don't have any bushings, I went with a three link which can't/won't bind as the suspension articulates. It's been on there now for two+ years, with tons of hard wheeling, and multiple long road trips from SoCal to CO, Moab, and the Rubicon.

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I want to be clear here. My only issue with long arms is loss of ground clearance. When the arms are tucked up nicely inside the frame rails they work well, though my personal choice is still a shorter arm. Why I choose to make a big deal about this is because I've seen so many people go out and get long arms with mounts that hang down low without thinking or being aware of what it's going to do......mostly because it's the latest cool thing to do. For many wheelers, with the amount of lift that they have, how they use there rig, and the type of wheeling they do, it might not be a big deal. But for others it can be a total waste based on the actual trail performance that they end up with. Just be aware of all the issues, and make a decision that is right for you. Besides, everyone of us has a thing or two on our rig that friends can rag on us about, so have fun and don't worry about it.

 

[Beezil]

Besides, everyone of us has a thing or two on our rig that friends can rag on us about, so have fun and don't worry about it.

yeah, its a real bitch when this happens at mickeys hottub, and you look out your window right before your fifth attempt, and goat is sitting there grinnin his silly ass off.

 

[FarmerMatt]

He tends to do that a lot. He doesn't like it when you do it back at him though.

 

[Goatman]

yeah, its a real bitch when this happens at mickeys hottub, and you look out your window right before your fifth attempt, and goat is sitting there grinnin his silly ass off.

Oh man.....let's don't go there. We haven't even brought up long arms unloading on steep climbs..........

I haven't climbed out of Mickey's every time either.

 

[XJJPR]

He tends to do that a lot. He doesn't like it when you do it back at him though.

Matt I sure remeber just recently a time where your LAs hung you up big time while I walked it!

hinkley

 

[XJJPR]

Just incase you need a refresher:

hinkley

 

[FarmerMatt]

Now that's not quite fare. I was hung on the cross member, not the arms or mounts, & the only reason you weren't was because your frame sliders walked you off to the left. I do admit that this last trip was not my trip.

LA's have there advantages & disadvantages just as mid arms & short arms. Don't worry too much about Goatman, as stated he likes to stir the pot. Nothing climbs a vetrical ledge like a LA. Mid arms & short arms struggle with this greatley where a LA walks right up. We all have different ideas about what works well, but as stated before clearance is key.

Matt

 

[jnackos]

After much additional contemplation, I ordered the Full Traction LA kit today. After reading the different posts I think this will be a good compromise for me right now. After all, this is my first suspension mod to the XJ, I've got at least 5 or 6 more to go before I have the setup I want right?!

Goatman, I still like your mid-arm setup. Maybe in a couple of years I'll have broken enough parts off of my Jeep that it will be time for another serious modification!

Thanks you guys, this thread has been very informative and helpful! I'll post info about the Full Traction LA kit after I get it installed. Any advice on what to look out for on installing and tweaking a LA setup?

Jordan

 

[XJJPR]

Now that's not quite fare. I was hung on the cross member, not the arms or mounts,
Matt

Your point?



hinkley

 

[FarmerMatt]

The point is that you would have gotten hung also if it weren't for the niffty little frame slider. Another thing is... forget it I know I'm going to loose this one.

Matt