Locker/LS with NP242

[crmerrill]

I have a 8.8 with a factory lsd and it works well I've figured out when I'm not really gaining like I'd like to I tap the brakes and it locks the rear up tight. I get all squirrely in the show and ice but I drive with a heavy foot most of the time. I don't have a 242.

that's really nice to hear, thanks for that. A locker is my ideal solution, however I'm glad the LS isn't a complete waste.

Your snow manners, is that in 2wd or PT 4wd?

 

[muddypunk]

All of the above my stocker with a 242 and lsd non C-clip turdy5 is the snow cat it out performs with novice wife driving it lol. I plan on stuffing my lunch box in the front of my jeep w/231 to have lsd locker combo.

 

[crmerrill]

I would not put an auto-locker in the front with 242 in Full-Time. The open diff in the FT position means torque will transfer to the front on its own, no driver intervention required. Do you need to stab yourself in the eye to know its going to hurt?

Selectable locker is something different. Limited slip with clutch pack is something different, in another way.

No, I have met plenty of people who have stabbed themselves in the eye and have learned the lesson the easy way. Hoping to do the same here :looney:

In my experience, theory and lived experience don't always match. Just want to hear as many sides of the story as I can before I jump.

 

[ehall]

A fine idea but you were getting posts from people who don't even run 242 so

 

[Rod Knee]

OK, I was asked the adequacy of my front LSD truetrac/rear locker combo. The limiting factor in my rigs capability through difficult obstacles right now is tire size (31) and to some extent perhaps tread design (all terrain) and lift height (2 inch). So I have not really been in a situation where the adequacy of my traction enhancement devices has been challenged with my current setup.

 

[Rod Knee]

BTW...you live in a mountainous area...I suspect that you might find 33 inch tires combined with 4.10 gears less than optimal.

 

[crmerrill]

BTW...you live in a mountainous area...I suspect that you might find 33 inch tires combined with 4.10 gears less than optimal.

I think I had been relying too heavily on those gearing charts... seems like there's more to the gearing equation than just RPMs. Now it's between 4.56 and 4.88- probably 4.88s

Saw in your profile you are from SD- I was born in Hot Springs in the Black Hills. Really miss that area. Not the winters of course...

 

[crmerrill]

A fine idea but you were getting posts from people who don't even run 242 so

Yep, I suppose I should be more patient in getting responses. I am pretty convinced that a selectable is the route I will take, eventually. Although, I'm still really interested in hearing someone's experience w/front locked FT 4wd; hoping someone is willing to share.

 

[cal]

I think I had been relying too heavily on those gearing charts... seems like there's more to the gearing equation than just RPMs. Now it's between 4.56 and 4.88- probably 4.88s

Saw in your profile you are from SD- I was born in Hot Springs in the Black Hills. Really miss that area. Not the winters of course...

Figure out what your revs would be with each ratio. Throw it in third and run those rpms on the highway for a while to try them out.

 

[Rod Knee]

Hmmm...yes...small world. Thinking about retiring in Hot Springs, or maybe Custer or Hill City. There I've just violated my own personal policy about keeping my mouth shut about the Black Hills.

 

[kcox506]

I live in NC as well and had lots of ice driving this winter. I have a 242 with an LSD front. I have had no issues driving. My friend and I race his XJ, 242, LSD front, no issues offroad.

That is my experience, take it as you wish.

 

[RedHeep]

I ran an Aussie in the front with a 242 for 2 years. I drove home in NC thunderstorms in FT all the time. I never noticed anything detrimental.

In a rainstorm was the only time I ever used FT. I was in snow in OH plenty of times and I was in 4hi. I'm on the trail in 4low. I would much rather have a lunchbox locker in the front and deal with the occasional (if ever) times that the tcase is in FT than settle on a LSD that is worthless on the trail.

If you have selectable money, go for it. I love mine. But if you don't, put a lunchbox in it, you're not going to hurt anything.

Limited slips might as well be called limited traction.

 

[MikeMc]

If you're running mostly street I'd go with open in the front and limited slip in the rear. When I first got my rig this is the setup for about a year and I ran on moderately difficult trails and it still worked very well. Plus it's the smoothest setup for the street IMO. I have auto-lockers front/rear now and wouldn't want to drive every day to work like this. OF course if you can afford it then go with selectable.

 

[crmerrill]

I live in NC as well and had lots of ice driving this winter. I have a 242 with an LSD front. I have had no issues driving. My friend and I race his XJ, 242, LSD front, no issues offroad.

That is my experience, take it as you wish.

Thanks- I'm assuming you were using FT when you said you had no issues driving. I don't think I'll really get into racing- have you done many trails or mild-moderate crawling w/LSDs?

I ran an Aussie in the front with a 242 for 2 years. I drove home in NC thunderstorms in FT all the time. I never noticed anything detrimental.

In a rainstorm was the only time I ever used FT. I was in snow in OH plenty of times and I was in 4hi. I'm on the trail in 4low. I would much rather have a lunchbox locker in the front and deal with the occasional (if ever) times that the tcase is in FT than settle on a LSD that is worthless on the trail.

If you have selectable money, go for it. I love mine. But if you don't, put a lunchbox in it, you're not going to hurt anything.

Limited slips might as well be called limited traction.

Excellent, thanks for that- have you ever had LSDs on road or off? Seems to be a fair amount of people with them that have had good experiences off-road; most people who don't like them have never used them off-road.

If you're running mostly street I'd go with open in the front and limited slip in the rear. When I first got my rig this is the setup for about a year and I ran on moderately difficult trails and it still worked very well. Plus it's the smoothest setup for the street IMO. I have auto-lockers front/rear now and wouldn't want to drive every day to work like this. OF course if you can afford it then go with selectable.

That's definitely an option. If/when I regear, I'm having a hard time convincing myself not to add lockers since I don't want to pay/perform double labor to add them later. But it's good to hear you were still able to do a lot w/front open diff and LSD rear. Probably would force me to improve my technique rather than rely more on my equipment, and hopefully less carnage.

 

[RedHeep]

I had a 8.8 with a lsd in it for a couple years. It's probably a big reason why I snapped the main shaft of the transfer case on guardrail in Tellico when I had to use too much pedal when one rear wheel had no traction.

I've watched and spotted a few jeeps with trash locks in the rear the past couple of years and whenever it gets to the point where you need it the most, it works the least.

It's better than nothing but its not a locker.

 

[wavingpine11]

I can vouch for what others have said about the 242/rear autolocker combination being a good one. I have a '98 Classic that came with a 242 case. I ran that with a Powertrax No-Slip in the rear for a while and that was extremely streetable in 2wd but even more so in AWD, since you are splitting the torque it takes more gas to actually prevent it from unlocking on turns.

I tend to just leave it in the Full-Time (AWD) setting and eventually switched the open front out for an OX locker and the rear locker out for an Aussie. Yes, it was expensive, but it was completely worth it. I'm currently having problems with the rear, and I believe it is the locker, but it just started becoming an issue recently and I haven't had a chance to fully diagnose the problem yet. I went with the OX up front because I was concerned about unintentional activation on the road. I will say that although the Aussie was historically very well behaved in AWD it always locks up when I am turning uphill from a stop.

I run 4.10 gears with 31x10.5x15 BFG AT's, 33x10.5 BFG KM2's, or occasionally with some almost bald 33x12.5x15 Dunlop Mud Rovers my wife gave me when she exited the Cherokee owners' world. I'm pretty happy with how it drives and handles and this Jeep, with well over 222,000 miles on it, can still hit well over the posted speed limits here without scary handling characteristics surfacing. No, it doesn't accelerate like a stock Jeep with 215/75-15 tires on it, but I don't need it to. Would I go lower gearing if I could right now? I probably would, but the current setup is tolerable. I had obtained a set of axles from a 4 cylinder Jeep and that's why I'm at that ratio.

I wish I could advise you on the use of an autolocker in the front, but I simply avoided the issue by going OX. I had a great job a the time so the cost wasn't an issue when I bought it. I wish I had one in the rear as well. My Jeep is not worth anything, but the axles and lift kit and armor have been on more than one Jeep, so I just see it as a set of parts that will make any decent Cherokee a way better Cherokee and the Jeep itself lasts as long as it does before it's time to get a new one and transplant the parts. In that sense, it really doesn't matter if your upgrades far overshadow the value of the host, because the host is replaceable. That's my view of it, anyway.

 

[kcox506]

Thanks- I'm assuming you were using FT when you said you had no issues driving. I don't think I'll really get into racing- have you done many trails or mild-moderate crawling w/LSDs

Yes in FT. Both of ours with the same setup have been to Uwharrie and haven't had an issue. However we were in 4 low, not FT.

Dare I mention I have a Volvo LSD, not a regular one. Which behaves a tad different than a regular one, so that may have played a factor.

 

[crmerrill]

I can vouch for what others have said about the 242/rear autolocker combination being a good one. I have a '98 Classic that came with a 242 case. I ran that with a Powertrax No-Slip in the rear for a while and that was extremely streetable in 2wd but even more so in AWD, since you are splitting the torque it takes more gas to actually prevent it from unlocking on turns.

I tend to just leave it in the Full-Time (AWD) setting and eventually switched the open front out for an OX locker and the rear locker out for an Aussie. Yes, it was expensive, but it was completely worth it. I'm currently having problems with the rear, and I believe it is the locker, but it just started becoming an issue recently and I haven't had a chance to fully diagnose the problem yet. I went with the OX up front because I was concerned about unintentional activation on the road. I will say that although the Aussie was historically very well behaved in AWD it always locks up when I am turning uphill from a stop.

I run 4.10 gears with 31x10.5x15 BFG AT's, 33x10.5 BFG KM2's, or occasionally with some almost bald 33x12.5x15 Dunlop Mud Rovers my wife gave me when she exited the Cherokee owners' world. I'm pretty happy with how it drives and handles and this Jeep, with well over 222,000 miles on it, can still hit well over the posted speed limits here without scary handling characteristics surfacing. No, it doesn't accelerate like a stock Jeep with 215/75-15 tires on it, but I don't need it to. Would I go lower gearing if I could right now? I probably would, but the current setup is tolerable. I had obtained a set of axles from a 4 cylinder Jeep and that's why I'm at that ratio.

I wish I could advise you on the use of an autolocker in the front, but I simply avoided the issue by going OX. I had a great job a the time so the cost wasn't an issue when I bought it. I wish I had one in the rear as well. My Jeep is not worth anything, but the axles and lift kit and armor have been on more than one Jeep, so I just see it as a set of parts that will make any decent Cherokee a way better Cherokee and the Jeep itself lasts as long as it does before it's time to get a new one and transplant the parts. In that sense, it really doesn't matter if your upgrades far overshadow the value of the host, because the host is replaceable. That's my view of it, anyway.

That's really helpful, thanks for the response. Do you have a D35 or C8.25? From what I can gather, most people are too smart/afraid to try locked front w/FT and have worked around it in other ways. Thanks for your sound arguments, much appreciated.

Yes in FT. Both of ours with the same setup have been to Uwharrie and haven't had an issue. However we were in 4 low, not FT.

Dare I mention I have a Volvo LSD, not a regular one. Which behaves a tad different than a regular one, so that may have played a factor.

Great, thanks for the update. LSDs definitely get a bad rep, but I suppose it comes down to what you have used and what you want out of them. I'm sure technique is a major factor with the user's performance and expectations.

 

[crmerrill]

So far I've altered my plan to save for 4.88s and selectables front/rear.

For right now, I'll pull the front d/s and just work out some of the other bugs until I can get the cash for the major surgery. I've heard the carriers are weak on both the 30 and 8.8, so replacing them with full carrier lockers seems to be wise. I'd rather repair the weak u-joints on the trail than have to get dragged because of an exploded diff. I don't think w/33s that would ever happen, but I'm not interested in ever telling a story like that...

In any case, I'm still interested in hearing about lived experiences with FT 4wd and a locked front.

Thanks to everyone so far!

 

[wavingpine11]

I am running a 29 spline 8.25 in the rear. I previously had a 92 XJ that came with a D35 rear and I Aussied that but never ran tires larger than 235/75-15 BFG AT's. That setup outlived the Jeep itself, which came to an untimely demise at the hands of a younger brother. The '98 Classic came with a D35 but I bought that used set of D30/8.25 axles with the stock 4.10's in them. The 8.25 was originally 27 spline but I bought a new carrier and a couple of tools and then swapped the carrier in. The gear setup was simplified by the fact that the pinion depth was already correctly set and I just needed to shim the carrier properly and then adjust the preload.

Also, I'd like to add that I opened the rear differential up last night, expecting to see all kinds of metallic carnage, and the locker looked almost brand new (after years of trail use) and the gears had no chips or broken teeth. The center gap was also correct. I now am fairly certain that when I open the t-case up I'm going to find a stretched chain and will have to replace it. At this point, I am extremely happy with the Aussie locker since it lives on completely unscathed while I am anticipating merely having to replace a wear item in the transfer case. Hopefully I didn't damage any of the gears the chain rides on! But thinking about it, having stretched out the chain while doing lots of wheel spinning with chains on this winter, often in 4-low, is a no-brainer.

Good luck with your build! Occasionally, when I leave the trail and I've forgotten to disengage the OX, the handling is unsurprisingly terrible and I have trouble even completing the turn from the dirt forest road back onto asphalt. I can only imagine what would happen if the road was super slick with snow and/or ice and I was going at this with an autolocker up front since I always switch back to AWD once I'm about to hit the pavement. The roads in that area are rarely well maintained in the winter. And for the record, it is easy to forget the front is locked when you're driving on roads that you basically are paddling up or down due to the depth and density of the snow. On dirt and rocks the loss of turning ability is much more obvious due to the greater traction available and I usually engage/disengage per obstacle. If you were running AWD with a front Aussie or the like installed, you would have to really moderate your driving style to compensate. And the uphill turns from a stop in public driving situations would be even more awkward than in my case with just the rear Aussie. There's a particular turn in a nearby town where I always have to turn uphill and to the right, and also have to merge with a single lane of traffic. It's the main road in the town, and it's a small college town. If there were a police car behind me, I think that I would be nervous about drawing unwanted attention to a vehicle that already attracts attention with squealing and tire hop as I tried to fight through the steering deficit. It's pretty much one of only a couple of scenarios where autolockers front and rear would cause an issue, and this particular example isn't even one I thought of ahead of time--I was more thinking about road manners while already in motion--but in hindsight, I am very happy with my locker choices.