heim vs tre

[Kejtar]

Yes, that's the one. It makes fabbing up steering much easier.

Is there any other benefit to using it appart from the ability to mount the draglink to it and still be able to align the tie rod?

 

[Bent]

Depending upon the mess you have made of your steering components on the trail, the Heims can leave more options to employ bubble gum and bailing wire to get you back.

 

[Roxtar]

Heimie joints.

Those would be the ones without the protective cover, right?

 

[88rockxj]

I don't get the "wrap 3/8" stock around the tie rod" comment, rather than weld on tabs. Sounds a little ghetto to me, and harder to get the spacing right, unless you're talking about making it a sleeve that bolts tight against the tie rod so you can loosen it to adjust the toe. Don't be so paranoid.

Pretty much everyone out there uses weld on tabs, including competitors, plus so do full blown race rigs both road and off-road. If you don't have anymore confidence than that in your welds, then have someone else weld it for you. I've broken three steering boxes and two track bar mounts with my weld on tabs....

How are you going to adjust the toe? I have since changed mine and now I use a QA1 double adjuster, which I recommend to everyone who is building their own steering and using rod ends.

ive got plenty of confidence in my welds, i beat the snot out of my last tie rod and drag link our of .250 with the bungs i welded on the ends for my heims. none the less the rest of my rig will be over built(well untill i can afford a hp60) so might as well do it on my steering.

what i mean about the wrapping the 3/8 is im going to take a piece of 3/8x3" flat stock like 8 inches or so and weld it in the center(of the 8" piece) to my tie rod then heat it up a lil and wrap both sides all the way around , then ill use another piece to go inbetween the two pieces for a full 360degree of weld around my tie rod. then cut two 1" long pieces of tube big enough to slip over my tie rod and weld one on each side of it so if some reason my weld does ever come off (which im 99% sure wont) it will be stopped by the two of them. some states its illegal to even have any welds on your steering, im just being a lil extra cautious becuase i drive on quite a few mountain roads with drop offs that go up to 1000 ft and if my steering were to fail i dont think id be surviving that lol. i have bad luck and im very hard on my crap lol.

ill still be able to adjust toe just not as precise as i should be able to but i can live with that since it has 40's and wont see "too much" street driving along with a spool in the back my tires wont be lasting long . i also will be rotating my tires at least every 1000 milles if not twice every 1k.

 

[RCP Phx]

ive got plenty of confidence in my welds, i beat the snot out of my last tie rod and drag link our of .250 with the bungs i welded on the ends for my heims. none the less the rest of my rig will be over built(well untill i can afford a hp60) so might as well do it on my steering.

what i mean about the wrapping the 3/8 is im going to take a piece of 3/8x3" flat stock like 8 inches or so and weld it in the center(of the 8" piece) to my tie rod then heat it up a lil and wrap both sides all the way around , then ill use another piece to go inbetween the two pieces for a full 360degree of weld around my tie rod. then cut two 1" long pieces of tube big enough to slip over my tie rod and weld one on each side of it so if some reason my weld does ever come off (which im 99% sure wont) it will be stopped by the two of them. some states its illegal to even have any welds on your steering, im just being a lil extra cautious becuase i drive on quite a few mountain roads with drop offs that go up to 1000 ft and if my steering were to fail i dont think id be surviving that lol. i have bad luck and im very hard on my crap lol.

ill still be able to adjust toe just not as precise as i should be able to but i can live with that since it has 40's and wont see "too much" street driving along with a spool in the back my tires wont be lasting long . i also will be rotating my tires at least every 1000 milles if not twice every 1k.

Extreme ghetto,this sounds alot like your LA mount theory.It will work but not for long!

 

[88rockxj]

thanks for your extremely bright input, it will be much stronger then what goatman has in his pics and will also have back up stoppers. but i dont see you calling his setup ghetto. you obviously are just a bandwagon web wheeler, thanks for going out of your way just to insult my idea and offer no positive crticism. another class act

 

[RCP Phx]

thanks for your extremely bright input, it will be much stronger then what goatman has in his pics and will also have back up stoppers. but i dont see you calling his setup ghetto. you obviously are just a bandwagon web wheeler, thanks for going out of your way just to insult my idea and offer no positive crticism. another class act

Specially with steering/suspension components,"anything that can move-will move",its just a bad idea.

 

[88rockxj]

Specially with steering/suspension components,"anything that can move-will move",its just a bad idea.

how is it a bad idea when it will be stronger then what goatman is running? becuase its not what everyone does? wont look purdy? try explainging yourself

i will have 360 degrees of weld, spreading the load to all sides of my tie rod nut just the top, i will have more weld surface . please enlightmen since youre obviously very intelligent

btw this "anything that can move-will move" thing makes no sense what so ever

 

[88rockxj]

Extreme ghetto,this sounds alot like your LA mount theory.It will work but not for long!

and also "my theory" about the long arm is crash has the ideal setup for the ground clearance problem and if i ever have a problem with my ground clearance i will rebuild mine pretty much just like his. in that thread i simply stated that amount of gain from pocketing your long arms is not worth the effort. personal opinion involving the amount of effort compared to gains


so please ,once again, enlighten me as to how my " La theory" will only work for so long , do you think crash's set up is ghetto? cause thats my theory on La mounting (like the tnt kit i fered to in that thread)

 

[RCP Phx]

The most common complaint with an inverted-t set-up is the fact that the drag-link "rolls" on the tie rod.Your "clamp" would never be able to resist that,after that wear/slop will set in,after that who knows.

 

[88rockxj]

The most common complaint with an inverted-t set-up is the fact that the drag-link "rolls" on the tie rod.Your "clamp" would never be able to resist that,after that wear/slop will set in,after that who knows.

and goatmans wont? or does his too? 3/8 should hold imo espeacialy considering ive seen hydraulic assist tabs built much weaker and hold fine under the pressure. thanks for explaing yourself though

 

[Goatman]

Extreme ghetto,this sounds alot like your LA mount theory.It will work but not for long!

WTF? How come such an insulting comment?

The most common complaint with an inverted-t set-up is the fact that the drag-link "rolls" on the tie rod.Your "clamp" would never be able to resist that,after that wear/slop will set in,after that who knows.

His "clamp" is a formed and fully welded bracket, and though I think it's over done and not the best looking, it would be damn strong. We build for peace of mind as well as for many other criteria, if this makes him feel safe then more power to him......it's his rig.

Now, even if it was some sort of clamp, your comment still doesn't apply, since similar clamps around the tie rod are regularly used for hydro-assist steering set ups.

As far as the tie rod rolling, yes, there is a tendancy to do that. However, the angle of the drag link has a lot to do with how much this is a problem, since increased angle puts more down force on the tie rod, making it roll more. Also, more angle in the drag link means that slightly more pitman arm/steering wheel movement is used up in the rolling motion. If the drag link angle is close to level, there is little rolling force, and when the tie rod does roll it doesn't create slop in the wheel since the drag link is pushing on about the same plane as the tie rod. The other thing that makes a difference is if the drag link is attached by a rod end on the top of the tie rod (what we're talking about here), or if the drag link is attached to the front (side) of the tie rod with a TRE. Obviously, the angle of the drag link is better if attached to the top rather than the side, and the force to roll the tie rod is also less.

Since my steering was brought up in this little exchange, I have absolutely no slop in my steering, it is very positive.

 

[RCP Phx]

WTF? As far as the tie rod rolling, yes, there is a tendancy to do that. However, the angle of the drag link has a lot to do with how much this is a problem, since increased angle puts more down force on the tie rod, making it roll more. Also, more angle in the drag link means that slightly more pitman arm/steering wheel movement is used up in the rolling motion. If the drag link angle is close to level, there is little rolling force, and when the tie rod does roll it doesn't create slop in the wheel since the drag link is pushing on about the same plane as the tie rod. The other thing that makes a difference is if the drag link is attached by a rod end on the top of the tie rod (what we're talking about here), or if the drag link is attached to the front (side) of the tie rod with a TRE. Obviously, the angle of the drag link is better if attached to the top rather than the side, and the force to roll the tie rod is also less.

I couldnt agree more but in my 36yrs of building/racing I havent found much that will hold any form of realistic rotational force on a smooth round object.Our last major project a couple of years ago.

 

[Goatman]

I couldnt agree more but in my 36yrs of building/racing I havent found much that will hold any form of realistic rotational force on a smooth round object.Our last major project a couple of years ago.

Before, I just thought you were rude and didn't know what you were talking about. Now, I'm dissapointed because you should know what you're talking about and don't.

Unless....you just missed that what he is talking about building is welded 360* around both ends.....so it can't rotate and would be very strong.

 

[RCP Phx]

Me "VERY,VERY" bad,mis-understood the original post.Was thinking of a "bald" collar(drag link adjuster with no threads)clamped on to the tie-rod being held in place by a couple of collars welded on the tie rod. :speepin:

 

[BrettM]

I've broken three steering boxes and two track bar mounts

hmmm.... hydro assist?

 

[Goatman]

hmmm.... hydro assist?

Just gotta get the hoses......

 

[88rockxj]

Before, I just thought you were rude and didn't know what you were talking about. Now, I'm dissapointed because you should know what you're talking about and don't.

Unless....you just missed that what he is talking about building is welded 360* around both ends.....so it can't rotate and would be very strong.

thank you, and i didnt mean to drag you into anything yours was just here for a perfect example hope no offense was taken.

 

[Goatman]

hope no offense was taken.

You're kidding, right? Of course I was offended......using me to hide behind? What did you think I would think?























J/k



No problem.

 

[88rockxj]

you might of had me there but i accidently scrolled all the way down and saw your smilee and jk first lol