Ford D35 lockout parts on a Jeep D30

[Root Moose]

Just thinking out loud, I haven't seen the Ford Dana 35 parts...

If the spindle can be attached to the knuckle and then the u-joint ends up too close to the inner C you may be golden.

When converting an XJ axle to WJ knuckles you need a 1/4" spacer to go between the knuckle and the spindle assembly to correct the axle u-joint geomtrey.

If the geometry is similar with this proposed configuration you could machine a spacer to the correct thickness and then be good to go possibly.

Very intriguing.

 

[HoneyBadger]

I have a Mile Marker conversion awaiting installation in the workshop if you need any dimensions or photographs of components. We've had the Warn conversion on one of our XJs for three years without issue.

 

[cjsxj87]

I would think that you'd have to use the ford outer shaft. I know with the Warn conversion you have to use a diffrent outer.

 

[alaskan]

I have a Mile Marker conversion awaiting installation in the workshop if you need any dimensions or photographs of components. We've had the Warn conversion on one of our XJs for three years without issue.

That would be fantastic. I'd like a PN for the Mile Marker locking hub, length of the stub shaft it comes with, outside diamter of the spindle where it fits into the knuckle (should be in the 2"-3" range) and it would be cool to know if it's a 1 5/8" thread on the spindle like the Ford parts I'm looking it.

Thanks for helping. Hopefully we can eventually turn this into something where you pull $50 in JY parts, pay $50 for some machining, buy some $100 lockouts and then build the rest of it out with really common parts store pieces.

I would think that you'd have to use the ford outer shaft. I know with the Warn conversion you have to use a diffrent outer.

Definitely. Jeep stub shafts are splined at the unit hub and the Ford stub shafts are splined at the end for both manual and auto hubs with non-unit bearings.

 

[mekcanix]

The Warn kit uses the same hubs but they are made with different material. the stubs in the warn kit look like CJ5 stubs, damn near same length and same spline. I have used the ford hubs as spares and my daily runner and keep the Warn Jeep hubs in my tool box, as they cost about about 300 bucks each and the fords are 50 bucks a pair all day long at the wreckers. also the ford one act as a kinda fuse as they are a little weaker than the jeep ones. I am very interested to see if your idea works using the ford spindle because if it does i will re build my front end to use all off the shelf parts. because the warn stuff is getting real hard to get since randy's bought the hubs from warn

 

[alaskan]

The Warn kit uses the same hubs but they are made with different material. the stubs in the warn kit look like CJ5 stubs, damn near same length and same spline. I have used the ford hubs as spares and my daily runner and keep the Warn Jeep hubs in my tool box, as they cost about about 300 bucks each and the fords are 50 bucks a pair all day long at the wreckers. also the ford one act as a kinda fuse as they are a little weaker than the jeep ones. I am very interested to see if your idea works using the ford spindle because if it does i will re build my front end to use all off the shelf parts. because the warn stuff is getting real hard to get since randy's bought the hubs from warn

Yeah, I probably wouldn't bother with the Warn standard hubs (not the gold anodized metal ones) because they're $200 for something that's probably not any stronger than the $90 Mile Markers. The aftermarket for Rangers/Explorers is weak sauce compared to Jeep, that's probably why the hubs are so much more expensive. The only real good thing about Ford is their proliferation in the junkyards.

 

[mekcanix]

Its funny the warn top hat hubs they use in the kit are identical except for the material the use in campared to the ford hubs (which are made by warn).
I honestly love my hub kit I got it for a steal of a deal (bought a YJ axle with them on it) the only bad part is cause it cam from a yj its got the small joint and I do find that they do improve gas mileage and they do make it easier if you break something in the diff just unlock hubs and drive it home.

 

[alaskan]

Its funny the warn top hat hubs they use in the kit are identical except for the material the use in campared to the ford hubs (which are made by warn).
I honestly love my hub kit I got it for a steal of a deal (bought a YJ axle with them on it) the only bad part is cause it cam from a yj its got the small joint and I do find that they do improve gas mileage and they do make it easier if you break something in the diff just unlock hubs and drive it home.

Nice, glad to hear from somebody who has it and likes it.

I have a feeling the people who are going to be able to do this are sort of few and far between. It's only going to (possibly) work for people with '96+ non-abs XJs. Although I suppose people with small joint axles could step up to the better shafts and ABS people could just drive around without it and tolerate the dash light.

 

[WI88XJ]

Nice, glad to hear from somebody who has it and likes it.

I have a feeling the people who are going to be able to do this are sort of few and far between. It's only going to (possibly) work for people with '96+ non-abs XJs. Although I suppose people with small joint axles could step up to the better shafts and ABS people could just drive around without it and tolerate the dash light.

Why? I think that a lot of folks would do this mod if it doesn't take an engineering degree and a whole shop of fab tools.

As far as the abs...I got rid of that crap from my wifes 2000 a couple of years ago. Glad I did it and so is she. There is a fuse and a relay in the black box under the hood on the pass side (at least on the '00 and my '98). No light no nothing.

Do it!! You pull this off and you'll put yourself up there in the heavens with the real fabbers here! :cheers:

 

[alaskan]

Why? I think that a lot of folks would do this mod if it doesn't take an engineering degree and a whole shop of fab tools.

As far as the abs...I got rid of that crap from my wifes 2000 a couple of years ago. Glad I did it and so is she. There is a fuse and a relay in the black box under the hood on the pass side (at least on the '00 and my '98). No light no nothing.

Do it!! You pull this off and you'll put yourself up there in the heavens with the real fabbers here! :cheers:

Coincidentally, I do have an engineering degree and license. I don't think they taught me anything in school about converting unit bearing hubs to manual locking, serviceable bearing hubs, though.

I only said that people might not be interested because plenty of people enjoy abs and aren't willing to go as far as replacing all four axle shafts and scouring a junkyard for the Ford parts along with spending $200 or so on new parts. Heck, look at the carping and moaning over the expense/hassle of a hack and tap SYE with a front driveshaft.

 

[alaskan]

Just thinking out loud, I haven't seen the Ford Dana 35 parts...

If the spindle can be attached to the knuckle and then the u-joint ends up too close to the inner C you may be golden.

When converting an XJ axle to WJ knuckles you need a 1/4" spacer to go between the knuckle and the spindle assembly to correct the axle u-joint geomtrey.

If the geometry is similar with this proposed configuration you could machine a spacer to the correct thickness and then be good to go possibly.

Very intriguing.

I suppose that could happen, but I think that's more of a problem with stub shafts with spline engagement in the middle of the shaft as opposed to the end of the shaft. The Ford stub shaft could hit that spindle bearing a 1/2" off and it wouldn't matter. If you tried that with a Jeep stub shaft you could be hitting the spindle bearing with splines, which is a no go.

It's still possible that the the Ford stub shaft will be too short (the Ford spindle could be cut down by a 1/2" or so from what I've seen) and the whole thing would go down in flames. If the Ford stub shaft is too long it shouldn't be that hard to put a spacer between the spindle and knuckle.

 

[kastein]

I have two engineering degrees but no licenses... and I'm a pro electronics nerd, not a mechanical engineer.

I'd do this if I needed to change my unit bearings anyways. My bet is that ford outers, ford bearings and whatnot, ford brake rotors maybe (off an explorer probably, since people use those for the WJ swap when they don't want to redrill WJ rotors), and maybe some milling or a WJ-esque spacer welded to the knuckle will make this work. I'd really like to see it happen, I can pull probably all the junkyard parts for under a hundred bucks around here.

Oh, plus converting the knuckle to 5 bolt or the spindle to 3 bolt.

The other issue - have you checked the diameter of the spindle where it bolts to the knuckle? On the XJ D30, the bolts don't handle the side load, they handle only holding the bearing in. The round seating surface that the unit bearing slips/presses into actually handles the load of the vehicle.

 

[alaskan]

I have two engineering degrees but no licenses... and I'm a pro electronics nerd, not a mechanical engineer.

I'd do this if I needed to change my unit bearings anyways. My bet is that ford outers, ford bearings and whatnot, ford brake rotors maybe (off an explorer probably, since people use those for the WJ swap when they don't want to redrill WJ rotors), and maybe some milling or a WJ-esque spacer welded to the knuckle will make this work. I'd really like to see it happen, I can pull probably all the junkyard parts for under a hundred bucks around here.

Oh, plus converting the knuckle to 5 bolt or the spindle to 3 bolt.

The other issue - have you checked the diameter of the spindle where it bolts to the knuckle? On the XJ D30, the bolts don't handle the side load, they handle only holding the bearing in. The round seating surface that the unit bearing slips/presses into actually handles the load of the vehicle.

Yeah, that's why I asked the guy to measure the conversion spindle where it fits inside the knuckle. It appears to me that the Ford spindle isn't using the five 8mm bolts to bear the entire wheel load, either. If it was then I bet they'd be significantly beefier. I could drill the spindle/knuckle but I'd definitely need to pay somebody to open up the Jeep knuckle with a lathe if required.

This guy is clearly drilling 5 bolt CJ (based on the wheel pattern) spindles for use on the 3 bolt knuckles.

http://www.rwkhaussupply.com/magent...na-44-5x5-5-30-spline-hub-conversion-kit.html

The CJ 5.5 on 5 lockout hubs might be stronger, but ending up with a new lug pattern is the suck.

And a Ford guy hating his D35 wheel bearing/lockouts and switching to D44 Chevy parts. At that point, just go straight to the D60 like the pirate guys always suggest.

http://www.mappyjack.com/Dana44.htm

 

[HoneyBadger]

That would be fantastic. I'd like a PN for the Mile Marker locking hub, length of the stub shaft it comes with, outside diamter of the spindle where it fits into the knuckle (should be in the 2"-3" range) and it would be cool to know if it's a 1 5/8" thread on the spindle like the Ford parts I'm looking it.

Thanks for helping. Hopefully we can eventually turn this into something where you pull $50 in JY parts, pay $50 for some machining, buy some $100 lockouts and then build the rest of it out with really common parts store pieces.

Here are the dimensions from the Mile Marker hub conversion: 9-1/4" (234.95mm) outer axle shaft, 3-1/2" (88.89mm) outside diametre of the spindle where it fits into the steering knuckle, and 1-5/8" (41.275) spindle nut.

 

[alaskan]

Here are the dimensions from the Mile Marker hub conversion: 9-1/4" (234.95mm) outer axle shaft, 3-1/2" (88.89mm) outside diametre of the spindle where it fits into the steering knuckle, and 1-5/8" (41.275) spindle nut.

Is that from the ears on the stub shaft of just the actual shaft length? Also, can you let me know if that portion of the spindle fits tightly in the steering knuckle? The interweb seems to be saying that the unit bearing has a 3.92" dimension there. In that case the three bolts on the mile marker conversion are taking 100% of the wheel load. Thanks for the measurements.

 

[aintright]

http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/4wd_Front_Axles.html

http://www.therangerstation.com/Magazine/May04/offroad.htm

here's a little info i found after reading this thread. i like the idea of a cheaper hub conversion. making it easier and cheaper to fix trail breakage. if this can be done with a reasonable amount of time and money involved i'd definately do it.


it seems the ranger guys like the jeep hubs because they are stronger.

 

[HoneyBadger]

Is that from the ears on the stub shaft of just the actual shaft length? Also, can you let me know if that portion of the spindle fits tightly in the steering knuckle? The interweb seems to be saying that the unit bearing has a 3.92" dimension there. In that case the three bolts on the mile marker conversion are taking 100% of the wheel load. Thanks for the measurements.

That is the total length of the outer shaft from the ears to the opposite end. The shaft area itself, before the u-joint ears measure 6 inches.

Forgive my haste. I measured the wrong portion of the spindle that fits into the steering knuckle. After I posted that measurement, I installed the spindle and realised this.

It is 3.92" and reduces to 3.5 inches. This "lip" that is 3.92" contacts the knuckles and requires some force to insert. It rests on the mating surfaces of the knuckle. On the Mile Marker spindle, it would not seat completely until the 13mm bolts were installed and torqued. The three bolts are not receiving 100% of the load transmitted from the wheels based on this evidence.

 

[alaskan]

http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/4wd_Front_Axles.html

http://www.therangerstation.com/Magazine/May04/offroad.htm

here's a little info i found after reading this thread. i like the idea of a cheaper hub conversion. making it easier and cheaper to fix trail breakage. if this can be done with a reasonable amount of time and money involved i'd definately do it.


it seems the ranger guys like the jeep hubs because they are stronger.

Thanks for that link. It looks like the overall length of the stub shaft is a go, but the stub shaft seal rides on a thicker part of the stub shaft on the Ford (2.31" vs. 2.12") so the stub shaft seal is going on my list of problems to solve.

That is the total length of the outer shaft from the ears to the opposite end. The shaft area itself, before the u-joint ears measure 6 inches.

Forgive my haste. I measured the wrong portion of the spindle that fits into the steering knuckle. After I posted that measurement, I installed the spindle and realised this.

It is 3.92" and reduces to 3.5 inches. This "lip" that is 3.92" contacts the knuckles and requires some force to insert. It rests on the mating surfaces of the knuckle. On the Mile Marker spindle, it would not seat completely until the 13mm bolts were installed and torqued. The three bolts are not receiving 100% of the load transmitted from the wheels based on this evidence.

Thanks. I need to dumpster dive at my house for that Ford spindle with the mangled threads that we threw away. I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's not going to be 3.92" because that would be too convenient.

 

[aintright]

no problem. i hope this works out. it would be cool to be able to do. this way i could just spool my front end and have the lock outs. hahaha

 

[stockerwithalocker]

My good friend has a ranger with a 35 front. He HATES the wheel bearings as they are always coming loose, he has to check them every trip and he has had to replace them a couple of times. The stock warn hubs hold up alright, I know he has broken one if not two on 33's. They honestly look like a hub cap (that is what they charge us for at the junkyard) and I know a unit bearing vs a stock ranger hub in strength is no comparison, the unit bearing is stronger because of the boss OD.

Go look on dezertrangers, they dislike the bearings and the trend is to run the ford 44 outers on the their dana 35 fronts. Which if you are going to do it, skip the 35 outers and run the 44 stuff.

Don't take this as bashing the idea, just trying to give you a heads up before you try it.