DO YOU THINK 37S ARE TO BIG??

[CanMan]

Ya well switch to a real tire and I'm sure your lucky streak will end.I hate Ground Slicks they only work in reverse.

I dont believe they work at all.

 

[Ba-Riedo]

Ya well switch to a real tire and I'm sure your lucky streak will end.I hate Ground Slicks they only work in reverse.

May I suggest turning your tires around?:doh:

-Alex

 

[uncc civilengineer]

37's are too small... You've gotta go to at least 38's: :guitar:

(38 x 15.50 r16.5 Ground Hawgs on 16.5 x 9.75 Monster Rims - 5 on 5.5 pattern)

... and for all the web-wheelers & hard-core Pirate boys, this sucker's sit'n on stock D30/35 axles w/ ONLY a 3" susp lift and 2" spidertrax wheel adapters!!! Yeah, no chromoly's, D44's, full-widths, or other fancy stuff needed! Of course this isn't a rockcrawler either, but for riding muddy trails & sandy creeks... small lift & GREAT flotation + moderate acceleration = NO breakage!

I know in the Online 4x4 World... this truck's Taboo! Aint no way it could possibly hold up? Well, it does. I don't want to jinx it, but been using it as a hunting truck for a while & has yet to break anything! I mostly built it this way as a joke... was gonna run the stock axles til they snapped then swap to 3/4 gear, but jokes on me I guess, stubborn old goats won't die!

I'm sure some folks will say this is B.S., but its not... just thought I'd show what's possible for anybody out there on a budget that can't afford fancy beef. Just take it easy on the skinny pedal & the stock gear will hold up.

arty:

I like you've tried it but honestly it's not good advice to be sharing.. I like the LCG but any flex would slice those tires pretty bad...

 

[vetteboy]

5"-6" lift on 35's will take you anywhere that 8" lift and 37's will.. without all the headaches, associated with taller lifts..taller is not better!

Respectfully disagreed.

... and for all the web-wheelers & hard-core Pirate boys, this sucker's sit'n on stock D30/35 axles w/ ONLY a 3" susp lift and 2" spidertrax wheel adapters!!! Yeah, no chromoly's, D44's, full-widths, or other fancy stuff needed! Of course this isn't a rockcrawler either, but for riding muddy trails & sandy creeks... small lift & GREAT flotation + moderate acceleration = NO breakage!

...and for those of us that actually wheel, and make forward progress via traction instead of momentum, this is terrible advice.

 

[MudAddict]

Well, not everyone lives near & wheels in rocky or mountainous areas... there's a lot of flat land & farm country low land. Almost every 4x4 site has hardcore people that recommend lockers, axle upgrades, gears, etc. But a lot of times, this is overkill. I purposely built the truck this way to see if the hype was true and the axles would snap, etc... but they didn't. Yes, momentum is a big factor in mud & sand... but this aint rockcrawling! Lockers & traction will dig you down & leave you high-centered on the axles around here! Flotation is King in swamp / marsh /sand areas... so for the lower South Eastern U.S. of GA, AL, FL, MS, LA... this is an adequate set up.

Before anyone gets their panties in a wad & starts flame'n... I just wanted to reiterate that this truck was built for lowlands and moderatetly hilly trails... NOT rockcrawling. It doesn't see much flex so tires don't get sliced. For anybody out there that doesn't go to ORV parks or places with rockcrawling terrain... you can get away with bigger tires & less beef. For someone w/ limited $$ or a High School kid who must make every penny count on a budget wheeler, this is good advice to know... in contrary to the majority of build-up advice out there.

 

[jeepme]

Well, not everyone lives near & wheels in rocky or mountainous areas... there's a lot of flat land & farm country low land. Almost every 4x4 site has hardcore people that recommend lockers, axle upgrades, gears, etc. But a lot of times, this is overkill. I purposely built the truck this way to see if the hype was true and the axles would snap, etc... but they didn't. Yes, momentum is a big factor in mud & sand... but this aint rockcrawling! Lockers & traction will dig you down & leave you high-centered on the axles around here! Flotation is King in swamp / marsh /sand areas... so for the lower South Eastern U.S. of GA, AL, FL, MS, LA... this is an adequate set up.

Before anyone gets their panties in a wad & starts flame'n... I just wanted to reiterate that this truck was built for lowlands and moderatetly hilly trails... NOT rockcrawling. It doesn't see much flex so tires don't get sliced. For anybody out there that doesn't go to ORV parks or places with rockcrawling terrain... you can get away with bigger tires & less beef. For someone w/ limited $$ or a High School kid who must make every penny count on a budget wheeler, this is good advice to know... in contrary to the majority of build-up advice out there.

Well said. This is a good example of biulding your rig to your style of wheeling, not alot of people get that.

 

[ktm racer 419]

are you saying lockers do more harm than good in mud?

 

[loke]

I agree with mudaddict's view. You don't really need to spend thousands of dollars to get your XJ to a level where you can have fun.
My believe is that you find out what you want to do with your vehicle and then start building from there. Take advice from others but also use your brain and common sense.
My little XJ is doing pretty well compared to vehicles a lot taller and with a much higher amount of $ spent. I am sitting at 3" with 31's and my only real problem is my carburator, not lift or tire size.
I wouldn't go bigger than 35's on an XJ though if you ever get on rocks. You can upgrade your axles all you want to handle the bigger tires, but you will also have to build a sub frame to keep the unibody from twisting apart with rockwells, 39's and gears in the very deep ranges.

Find out what you want your XJ to do and build it for it.

 

[XJSpencer]

I'm surprised that nobody pointed out that a Dana 44 rear is undersized for 37's. I think we already mentioned that a Rubi 44 isn't much stronger that an HP30 if at all.

To get this back on topic....

What kind of knuckle and ball joint failures have y'all seen with the Dana 30 outer knuckles? I've got a Currie 9" front in the garage that has 30 outer knuckles. I've thought of trying 37's sometime.

 

[uncc civilengineer]

I agree with mudaddict's view. You don't really need to spend thousands of dollars to get your XJ to a level where you can have fun.
My believe is that you find out what you want to do with your vehicle and then start building from there. Take advice from others but also use your brain and common sense.
My little XJ is doing pretty well compared to vehicles a lot taller and with a much higher amount of $ spent. I am sitting at 3" with 31's and my only real problem is my carburator, not lift or tire size.
I wouldn't go bigger than 35's on an XJ though if you ever get on rocks. You can upgrade your axles all you want to handle the bigger tires, but you will also have to build a sub frame to keep the unibody from twisting apart with rockwells, 39's and gears in the very deep ranges.

Find out what you want your XJ to do and build it for it.

Coming from someone who has probably never wheeled rocks... I mean come on now..

Sub frame.. i'm assuming you mean plating the unibody rails not an actual "sub frame"?

I agree w/ building to suit your needs.. but like it's been said.. telling someone w/ a budget to go pick up some 37-38" on stock axles/gearing/steering/suspension is absolutely stupid and dangerous. When it breaks (not if)... you're going to have to spend money then... why not start within your means and work your way up like most of us have...

 

[uncc civilengineer]

I'm surprised that nobody pointed out that a Dana 44 rear is undersized for 37's. I think we already mentioned that a Rubi 44 isn't much stronger that an HP30 if at all.

To get this back on topic....

What kind of knuckle and ball joint failures have y'all seen with the Dana 30 outer knuckles? I've got a Currie 9" front in the garage that has 30 outer knuckles. I've thought of trying 37's sometime.

I disagree... I've not broken yet (knock on wood)... Truss/chromo, etc. I dont see a problem.. I guess I have a totally different mentality compared to most others that wheel "bigger" tires in rocks...

 

[vetteboy]

I'm surprised that nobody pointed out that a Dana 44 rear is undersized for 37's. I think we already mentioned that a Rubi 44 isn't much stronger that an HP30 if at all.

To get this back on topic....

What kind of knuckle and ball joint failures have y'all seen with the Dana 30 outer knuckles? I've got a Currie 9" front in the garage that has 30 outer knuckles. I've thought of trying 37's sometime.

FWIW, on 33's I twisted the splines a little bit on my stock 44 rear shafts. 37's will require about 12% more torque through the axle shaft for the same propelling force so that would probably have been miserable for me.

Dana 30 failures - I primarily broke Spicer 760 joints, which unless I caught it immediately would usually destroy the ears on the shafts too. On two occasions the joint breaking took out the upper ball joint at the same time. I never broke a ring/pinion, or either shaft (stock). This was locked on 33's.

Only during one u-joint break was I actually "getting it". The rest of the times - probably 5 or 6 - I was "driving like a girl". Which put another way means that I wasn't revving it up huge or spinning tires all over the place - I was just trying to maintain a line or crawl through an undercut.

I don't like having to worry about stuff breaking. I don't like thinking "oo, can't go above 2500 RPM here or it might break", or "I can only turn uphill a little bit here or else I'll probably snap a D30 u-joint". I'd rather just wheel and trust my equipment to do what I'm looking for.

 

[XJSpencer]

I disagree... I've not broken yet (knock on wood)... Truss/chromo, etc. I dont see a problem.. I guess I have a totally different mentality compared to most others that wheel "bigger" tires in rocks...

After re-reading, I see that he has alloys front and rear. The 44 rear with alloys is OK for what he needs.

 

[XJSpencer]

FWIW, on 33's I twisted the splines a little bit on my stock 44 rear shafts. 37's will require about 12% more torque through the axle shaft for the same propelling force so that would probably have been miserable for me.

Dana 30 failures - I primarily broke Spicer 760 joints, which unless I caught it immediately would usually destroy the ears on the shafts too. On two occasions the joint breaking took out the upper ball joint at the same time. I never broke a ring/pinion, or either shaft (stock). This was locked on 33's.

Only during one u-joint break was I actually "getting it". The rest of the times - probably 5 or 6 - I was "driving like a girl". Which put another way means that I wasn't revving it up huge or spinning tires all over the place - I was just trying to maintain a line or crawl through an undercut.

I don't like having to worry about stuff breaking. I don't like thinking "oo, can't go above 2500 RPM here or it might break", or "I can only turn uphill a little bit here or else I'll probably snap a D30 u-joint". I'd rather just wheel and trust my equipment to do what I'm looking for.

Thanks for the info.

Where do you think the weak point would be on a front 9" with 31 spline alloys, WJ30 outers 5x4.5 Warn hubs and Longfield(or others) u-joints? I'm thinking the weakness would be at the hub. If the Diff was a 30, it'd be the gears..right?

 

[vetteboy]

With a regular Warn hub, yeah, probably. With a D30 center it'd be a tossup depending on if you had it trussed, what ratio, etc.

What size outer stubs? Does it use the 19-spline D44 outers? If so, even the alloy versions of those are kind of weak.

 

[MudDawg]

My experience in mud is that you can't have too much tire as long as you have the power to use them....you don't need much flex....but you do need lockers....otherwise as the old saying goes "without lockers, it's still just two wheel drive"...I have a XJ with 30/35 axles and havent broken them yet...but it has an auto trans and I dont use the blue button while it's hung up...I hook up the strap and get pulled out...I have seen plenty of guys blast drivetrains in the mud....get sucked down....rev it up and dump the clutch...the tires won't spin....whammo!!! but it isnt limited to 30/35 axles...if you are determined, you can break anything....if you are smart you stop short of destruction. But on the other hand, getting stuck in a mud hole isn't going to hold up a long line of other rigs...at least not down here.

There is a wide range of ideas about how hard mud is to navigate...."mud" is not hard pack with a few inches of dirty water on top....you can blast granny's car thru that if you dont drown the motor out....if you can tear thru the "mud" at 50mph...that aint mud....if you go ripping into real mud wide open, you can end up in a hole and tear the running gear right out from under the rig....takes a mix of power and finesse, and a good deal of being able to read the line and the consistency of the mud.

And to let everybody know I try to look at both sides of the coin...if I ever go somewhere where there are "real" trails, or "real" rocks...you bet your backside I will be looking up someone savy for advice...here "trails" are fireroads to most others...."rocks" in most cases are little rock gardens made of head sized rubble....I heard rumors of limestone quarries somewhere in North Florida, but so far they are a myth as far as anybody around here knows.

 

[fubar XJ]

37's are too small... You've gotta go to at least 38's: :guitar:

(38 x 15.50 r16.5 Ground Hawgs on 16.5 x 9.75 Monster Rims - 5 on 5.5 pattern)

... and for all the web-wheelers & hard-core Pirate boys, this sucker's sit'n on stock D30/35 axles w/ ONLY a 3" susp lift and 2" spidertrax wheel adapters!!! Yeah, no chromoly's, D44's, full-widths, or other fancy stuff needed! Of course this isn't a rockcrawler either, but for riding muddy trails & sandy creeks... small lift & GREAT flotation + moderate acceleration = NO breakage!

I know in the Online 4x4 World... this truck's Taboo! Aint no way it could possibly hold up? Well, it does. I don't want to jinx it, but been using it as a hunting truck for a while & has yet to break anything! I mostly built it this way as a joke... was gonna run the stock axles til they snapped then swap to 3/4 gear, but jokes on me I guess, stubborn old goats won't die!

I'm sure some folks will say this is B.S., but its not... just thought I'd show what's possible for anybody out there on a budget that can't afford fancy beef. Just take it easy on the skinny pedal & the stock gear will hold up.

arty:

That's cool looking, and a pretty decent budget-build for the limited wheeling conditions you subject it to.


Those tires do suck, though. I ran with a guy who took the grooving iron to a set, basically cut the centers up to look like TSLs. They worked much better than the uncut sets I've seen.

p.s. I love the way your paint faded. It looks like a mountain landscape from a distance on the sides.

 

[MudAddict]

I'm not saying lockers don't help in the mud... but if you do lockers & gears and are gonna spend over $1,000 in just parts, you might as well put them in some beefy axles like a D44/9" swap... but this just snowballs into a lot of other costs.

I only have about $2,500 TOTAL into this XJ (including its purchase cost).. vs. my $15k money pit:

...which is set up PERFECTLY for the mud & trail riding:

- Portal Axles (high center section)
- 7.56 gears (Deep Gearing!)
- Cable Lockers
- Full-Hyrdo Steering (ease of turning & no bad linkage issues)
- Beefed of Driveshafts
- Triple-sticked Dual T-cases (NP205/203)
- Only 6" Susp. Lift (low center of gravity)
- 16.5 x 12 STAZWORKS double beadlocks
- 44" Boggers
- Built 360 eng.
- 4 spd.

...not listing all this to brag, but on the contrary: I've dropped a ton of $$ (at least to a guy who only makes $25k in 1 yr... it took a LONG time to save this much)... and made the ultimate MUD / Offroad Truck, but it took a lot of time & fab work to create this. While this sat for several years being built, that cheap XJ which only took $1,500 in parts to make trail ready & a couple of weekends of buildup/labor time, has been a lot of fun & simple/easy to maintain & repair.

Having played the whole buildup / beef-up game every Off-roader eventually falls victim to... I've learned the hard way about the massive can of worms EXTREMELY modifying a rig can open! My XJ has a torquey little 4.0L & light weight... 1/2 the weight of the Dodge.. so I use that advantage & can get away going many places that my BIG Dodge goes. Plus, if the XJ gets stuck, anything can pull it out! Get that Dodge stuck & you'll need a Track Hoe OR Bulldozer to get back to where ever it managed to make it and get buried!

 

[cal]

You can talk about how your dana 35 holds up to 38.5's all you want, but people here won't believe you.

I'm one of them.

I blew up my dana 35 with 32's on stock gears. I was making a u-turn on gravel. One of the tires broke loose and hooked up again, busting the spiders and a shaft. I wasn't really on the throttle all that hard either - the 35 may as well be made from paper mache.

I don't buy there is any way it would hold up to 38.5's, at least, not after you pulled out of your driveway.

 

[MudDawg]

Nice Dodge man...:thumbup: