Dana 34: D44 hubs & brakes on D30 Knuckle

[rockclimber]

Dana 34: D44 hubs & brakes on D30 Knuckle

It's been done by Bill Ansel (check Pirate tech section). It requires custom inner shafts which adds to the expense and PITA factor when something breaks.

Hey... I never said it was a good idea... But it's still better than keeping d30 bjs..


But why would it require custom inners?

If its just a length issue, the C could be spaced so that stock 30 shafts could work.

 

[Boostwerks.com]

Re: Dana 34: D44 hubs & brakes on D30 Knuckle

The weakest part of the D30 is the balljoints. Why not just cut the whole inner C/outer C off the 44, and swap it onto the 30?


That way you stay HP, don't have to gear, and you get all the benefits of the 44 outers.

I'd have to disagree. Especially now with the heavy duty D30 ball joints being offered by Solid Axles, Poly Perf. and even XRF. As for inner C strength, there are also now several companies producing inexpensive gusset kits.

 

[cal]

Re: Dana 34: D44 hubs & brakes on D30 Knuckle

The weakest part of the D30 is the balljoints. Why not just cut the whole inner C/outer C off the 44, and swap it onto the 30?


That way you stay HP, don't have to gear, and you get all the benefits of the 44 outers.

Thats just not true. Synergy D30 balljoints are stronger than any Dana 44 balljoint on the market.

We went out of our way to put Dana 30 knuckles and balljoints onto the 44 in the Team Naxja car, for the better balljoints.

 

[Root Moose]

Re: Dana 34: D44 hubs & brakes on D30 Knuckle

Hey... I never said it was a good idea... But it's still better than keeping d30 bjs..


But why would it require custom inners?

If its just a length issue, the C could be spaced so that stock 30 shafts could work.

No worries.

Not sure, don't remember... something like there was no way to keep a stockish WMS2WMS without a custom shaft... but I'd go read the article to get the truth.

 

[cal]

Re: Dana 34: D44 hubs & brakes on D30 Knuckle

No worries.

Not sure, don't remember... something like there was no way to keep a stockish WMS2WMS without a custom shaft... but I'd go read the article to get the truth.

The Dana 44 outer is several inches longer than the Dana 30 outer, and the spacing between the inside of the C and center of the balljoints is not the same between a 30 and 44. The math just doesnt work out to use stock shafts unless you're going to retube the 30, which will cost as much as new shafts and give you a wider width.

 

[rockclimber]

Dana 34: D44 hubs & brakes on D30 Knuckle

I'd have to disagree. Especially now with the heavy duty D30 ball joints being offered by Solid Axles, Poly Perf. and even XRF. As for inner C strength, there are also now several companies producing inexpensive gusset kits.

I cut my own C gussets out of a peice of 3/16 plate... That doesn't make the knuckle any stronger... Sure you can get Reid's, but I thought we were talking budget here.

To lazy to multiquote on my phone, so I'll respond to cal too...


Just because synergy says their balljoints are stronger than the spicers, does not mean they still aren't the weakest part of the axle.

 

[rockclimber]

Dana 34: D44 hubs & brakes on D30 Knuckle

The Dana 44 outer is several inches longer than the Dana 30 outer, and the spacing between the inside of the C and center of the balljoints is not the same between a 30 and 44. The math just doesnt work out to use stock shafts unless you're going to retube the 30, which will cost as much as new shafts and give you a wider width.

A cut and sleeve retube would not cost as much as custom shafts... I've retubed 2 d30s that have cracked the stock tube by cutting it off about 4" from the dif and OD sleeping it. To get the 44 outer on its just a matter of the right size material.

 

[cal]

Re: Dana 34: D44 hubs & brakes on D30 Knuckle

Just because synergy says their balljoints are stronger than the spicers, does not mean they still aren't the weakest part of the axle.

No, but them selling more than 8,000 dana 30 balljoints and having exactly 9 come back for free warranty replacement does make it not the weakest part of the axle.

 

[Boostwerks.com]

Re: Dana 34: D44 hubs & brakes on D30 Knuckle

I cut my own C gussets out of a peice of 3/16 plate... That doesn't make the knuckle any stronger... Sure you can get Reid's, but I thought we were talking budget here.

To lazy to multiquote on my phone, so I'll respond to cal too...


Just because synergy says their balljoints are stronger than the spicers, does not mean they still aren't the weakest part of the axle.

We are talking budget here. WJ knuckles to be exact. When was the last time you saw one of those breaking?

As for the ball joints, if team can survive KOH on a D30 sized ball joint and 35's ... I think they'll be fine. :thumbup:

 

[cal]

Re: Dana 34: D44 hubs & brakes on D30 Knuckle

We are talking budget here. WJ knuckles to be exact. When was the last time you saw one of those breaking?

As for the ball joints, if team can survive KOH on a D30 sized ball joint and 35's ... I think they'll be fine. :thumbup:

Thats kind of my point there. We have pre-run for 2 KOH races, raced 2 KOH races, ~6 long weekends of playing, a short course race and 1 60 MPH barrel roll on our dana 30 balljoints. 1 balljoint (out of 4) got loose (we assume from the roll, its the wheel i came down on). Synergy handed us 4 new balljoints no questions asked, but we didn't bother to change they other side - they are still like brand new.

 

[VAhasnoWAVES]

there was some talk about doing this to WJ knuckles at the beginning of this thread. for those that are interested, ive decided to try/do it. dale/dgrigorenko has been very helpful in letting me bounce ideas off of him and answering my questions. i plan to have it done before a wheeling trip labor day weekend.

so its not going to be bolted on tomorrow, but ive been gathering parts and have started machining. teasers...

sand blasting:

final judgement:

 

[cracker]

Re: Dana 34: D44 hubs & brakes on D30 Knuckle

Thats just not true. Synergy D30 balljoints are stronger than any Dana 44 balljoint on the market.

We went out of our way to put Dana 30 knuckles and balljoints onto the 44 in the Team Naxja car, for the better balljoints.

Bawahahahaha. Just saw this. Synergy won't make this claim.......plus they make 'real' dana 44 ball joints too. It's like morons claiming Dana 30 high pinions are stronger than low pinion 44s.....crap that can't be proven true.

Keep in mind 'real' (non jk) dana 44 ball joints rarely have to be changed....I am talking the cheap ones from auto zone even running bigger tires 37s. They do go but it seems to take a long time. Dana 30 joints are changed rather often compared to their bigger brothers running 33s and 35s. The difference is huge in the amount of surface area that retains the ball....no matter how much nicer the synergy ball joints may be, they still can't provide more surface area to retain the ball. Bigger will always be better regarding ball joints...

 

[rockclimber]

Re: Dana 34: D44 hubs & brakes on D30 Knuckle

Bawahahahaha. Just saw this. Synergy won't make this claim.......plus they make 'real' dana 44 ball joints too. It's like morons claiming Dana 30 high pinions are stronger than low pinion 44s.....crap that can't be proven true.

Keep in mind 'real' (non jk) dana 44 ball joints rarely have to be changed....I am talking the cheap ones from auto zone even running bigger tires 37s. They do go but it seems to take a long time. Dana 30 joints are changed rather often compared to their bigger brothers running 33s and 35s. The difference is huge in the amount of surface area that retains the ball....no matter how much nicer the synergy ball joints may be, they still can't provide more surface area to retain the ball. Bigger will always be better regarding ball joints...

 

[cracker]

Could you elaborate a little more cracker as to why you feel that way? Just trying to see if I'm missing something here.

To me it seems like it would be a great way to get lockout hubs on the cheap. I'm one of those people who plans on keeping their 30 as It's HP, already built, and is just fine for my 33's. IMO, it would be a waste of time/effort/$ to swap to a LP44.

As my XJ will never be a trailer queen the benefits for me would be: gaining a fuse-able link, reduced DS vibs, lower wear/tear, larger brakes, stronger hub.

Especially for those with access to milling machines, it seems like a great solution. no?

Each modified application has its benefits for different individuals. In your case, you already spent a ton of money on dana 30 junk and you don't want it to go to waste. Plus on 33s, you are probably right, dana 30 will suit you fine. This may be a mod worth while to you....nothing wrong with that

For me, I hate seeing people spend any money or time on non standard mods with minimal gain. This case is getting better brakes, and lock out hubs and spindles. I am a fan of all three....HUGE fan. (I despise unit bearings and ball joints for that matter).

The increase in brakes is nominal....I know cause I run the same stuff on my mj front axle. One is better off getting some black magic pads and turning their rotors than going this route.

The upgraded spindle is cool....big fan of being able to pack, rebuild, and maintain my set up there but dislike the way it is done here. On all the dana axles, unless there is a brake mount cast into the knuckle, the spindle goes first into the knuckle and the brake caliper bracket goes on top of that spindle and is held tight with studs....this case it is 3 bolts only holding the setup and the spindle is outside the caliper bracket. To me, this is a significant issue....not cool at all. For off road only and being trailered to the trails it may work....but on the road with other people and their families on the road it is not worth the risk. Going against a standard design will not get you any brownie points when defending it should the worst happen.

I do like the locking hubs....I run them on my MJ with the belief that they will break first and be the fuse of my set up.

If one has the skills to do mods like this, surely one has the ability to build a better axle all together where these features are done properly to a standard and the parts themselves all around are stronger. Building and narrowing junk yard axles is not tough and if one starts off with building their jeep this way it can be way cheaper in the long run if you didn't (waste) money on the dana 30 already. I guess everyone realizes this eventually but building an XJ the second time round most everyone would build their cars differently.....I have built a few so my perspective is from the 'other side'.

 

[SPECFab]

the brakes can be way better if you use late 70's t-bird calipers they fit right on and have way more stopping power that is what the bronco guys do to get those big beast to stop on 38's and half ton brakes t-bird calipers have the clamping force of a chevy one ton single piston just on a smaller rotor

 

[VAhasnoWAVES]

the brakes can be way better if you use late 70's t-bird calipers they fit right on and have way more stopping power that is what the bronco guys do to get those big beast to stop on 38's and half ton brakes t-bird calipers have the clamping force of a chevy one ton single piston just on a smaller rotor

got info on this?
links?
write up?
part numbers?

 

[GordoSmasho]

Dana 34: D44 hubs & brakes on D30 Knuckle

I infancy have a bronco dana 44 about to go in my rig and I would like to know more about the tbird brakes.

 

[Boostwerks.com]

Each modified application has its benefits for different individuals. In your case, you already spent a ton of money on dana 30 junk and you don't want it to go to waste. Plus on 33s, you are probably right, dana 30 will suit you fine. This may be a mod worth while to you....nothing wrong with that

For me, I hate seeing people spend any money or time on non standard mods with minimal gain. This case is getting better brakes, and lock out hubs and spindles. I am a fan of all three....HUGE fan. (I despise unit bearings and ball joints for that matter).

The increase in brakes is nominal....I know cause I run the same stuff on my mj front axle. One is better off getting some black magic pads and turning their rotors than going this route.

The upgraded spindle is cool....big fan of being able to pack, rebuild, and maintain my set up there but dislike the way it is done here. On all the dana axles, unless there is a brake mount cast into the knuckle, the spindle goes first into the knuckle and the brake caliper bracket goes on top of that spindle and is held tight with studs....this case it is 3 bolts only holding the setup and the spindle is outside the caliper bracket. To me, this is a significant issue....not cool at all. For off road only and being trailered to the trails it may work....but on the road with other people and their families on the road it is not worth the risk. Going against a standard design will not get you any brownie points when defending it should the worst happen.

I do like the locking hubs....I run them on my MJ with the belief that they will break first and be the fuse of my set up.

If one has the skills to do mods like this, surely one has the ability to build a better axle all together where these features are done properly to a standard and the parts themselves all around are stronger. Building and narrowing junk yard axles is not tough and if one starts off with building their jeep this way it can be way cheaper in the long run if you didn't (waste) money on the dana 30 already. I guess everyone realizes this eventually but building an XJ the second time round most everyone would build their cars differently.....I have built a few so my perspective is from the 'other side'.

I'm not sure why several members think I have billions into my turdy 30? I picked my parts patiently picking up deals, and doing most of the build myself. I could be a little off, but by my last count I spent around $1500 on my 30. That's including my wilwood brakes, truss crap, XRF ball joints, truetrac (used and rebuilt), chromos, 4.56 gears (used but great condition), and install. But I digress...

Another factor that should be accounted for is I would use the WJ knuckles like VAhasnowaves above and machine separate adapters for my wilwood calipers to mount on CJ rotors. In this way the brakes aren't loading the mounting bolts or require any welding of the CJ bracket to the knuckle.

I've also toyed with the idea of chucking up some big CR round bar and turning my own Hybrid CJ/Late Model 30 spindles. In other words, the outer portion would replicate the CJ spindle, but it would still retain the inner portion of the late model unit bearings. In this way it retains the safe load transfer into the knuckle. Sort of like the warn hub kits, only it would vastly expand parts availability. Sure it sounds like a lot of work, but for a dude with time and access to machines it might be worth a try. Not to mention I think there's a market out there for an inexpensive lockout solution. I agree 100% with the 30 haters that spending $1100+ on a warn hub kit for a 30 IS a bad investment.

Thank you for getting back to me though! I appreciate your perspective.

 

[SPECFab]

its a long read but the info on tbird stuff is in there

http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90802

 

[yossarian19]

It seems like this is another viable option for upgrading brakes on a D30 for the machine tool owners out there. Also could let you put 6 lug hubs on the front end without going the full 44 swap, to match an Isuzu / Waggy / Whatever rear end swap. I'm trying to gauge the money & work involved in this vs a 44 swap vs a WJ swap...