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CSF 3 Row Radiator the best way to go?

1990JEEPXJ said:
that is my problem right now. playing in the dunes for about 10 minutes is about all i can do. just got back from a weekend out in the dunes. didnt get to drive the XJ as much or as hard as i had hoped for this reason
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The jeepspeed dudes say they run 2 rows and 2 stock new style efans and do fine. I don't doubt the fans, they work great, but id like to know exactly what kind of rads they're running.
 
BlueCuda said:
OK update, this thing is a piece of shit. I had to clearance the jeep to clear the adaptor for the transmission line and make a fitting for the upper line.

The deal breaker? Once you assemble the rest of the core support there isn't any room to turn the radiator cap so it comes off.....FAIL. Then as I wrestle with this piece of shit i notice my hands are turning silver because the cheap ass paint to make the aluminum look better is rubbing off on me lol.

It fits the jeep great, but if you plan on hooking up transmission lines or filling it with coolant than this is not the radiator for you!

I will say radiatorsforless.com seems to be great to deal with. He offered a refund before I opted to modify my transmission lines so I just sent an e-mail about this.
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I've been meaning to do a write up on my Champion install, but I ran into issues and got sidetracked with making the thing work. I'll really try to finish the write up though so others won't have so much trouble with this radiator.

Here are the problems:

1. The quick connector for the lower tranny cooler line come out too far and interferes with the wheel well area. I zipped off a relief for it with a dremel and that part was A-ok.

2. This one is the more frustrating of the two. As Cuda said, the upper fitting doesn't work for the stock tranny cooler lines. Stock (for mine at least) is a flare, but they give you another quick connector fitting for it. Obviously a flare on the radiator won't connect to a quick connect on the line going to the tranny. To make matters worse, the nut on the transmission side of the flared fitting uses standard threads rather than pipe threads that normal flared fittings use. The threads on the radiator are pipe threads as well, and they're welded in so there's no changing fittings or threads on the radiator. Soooo, the two won't connect. In order to connect the two using the flared fitting, you would have to cut the flare off of the transmission hard line, remove the stock nut, and replace it with a flared nut with pipe threads to match the radiator. What I did however, was use the quick connector fitting supplied with the radiator, and I hacked the flare off of the tranny hard line and connected the two with a rubber hose and zip ties. I'll eventually re-flare the end of the tranny hard line for a more secure connection and replace the zip ties with spring clamps but for now it's working just fine with no leaks (tranny lines aren't under much pressure).

Yes, I was very frustrated with having to "fab" a vehicle specific product. I should be used to it though, it seems like at least half of the "bolt in" products I've bought I've needed to do some fabrication on. But my disappointment at the fitting issues were quickly forgotten when I tested the thing out.

I did the electric fan conversion using two stock A/C fans at the same time as the new radiator. It was 100 degrees out the day I got it done, how convenient right? :firedevil: Long story short, I sat in a blacktop parking lot with my A/C on full blast and my temp needle never even flirted with 210, no joke. Since then, I've also driven it around town in 70-80 degree weather with my fans completely unplugged (just for shits and giggles) with my A/C on and never hit 210.

So yea, I'm very happy with mine. As far as performance goes, this thing kicks ass. And it's not painted, it's just aluminum "dust" or oxidation or something from the manufacturing process. I can vouch that the thing is very high quality, looks great sittin in the engine bay :thumbup:
 
XJLI said:
The jeepspeed dudes say they run 2 rows and 2 stock new style efans and do fine. I don't doubt the fans, they work great, but id like to know exactly what kind of rads they're running.
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yeah thats what ive seen too. some say they get them custom made but that sounds a bit expensive. griffin makes XJ radiators but they cost over $500
 
1990JEEPXJ said:
yeah thats what ive seen too. some say they get them custom made but that sounds a bit expensive. griffin makes XJ radiators but they cost over $500
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Sounds worth it if it means you can go a whole day of wheeling/prerunning without having to stop and let the engine cool down. I don't have a problem paying a bit more for quality parts that solve major issues on the Jeep.
 
Milford Cubicle II said:
I've been meaning to do a write up on my Champion install, but I ran into issues and got sidetracked with making the thing work. I'll really try to finish the write up though so others won't have so much trouble with this radiator.

Here are the problems:

1. The quick connector for the lower tranny cooler line come out too far and interferes with the wheel well area. I zipped off a relief for it with a dremel and that part was A-ok.

2. This one is the more frustrating of the two. As Cuda said, the upper fitting doesn't work for the stock tranny cooler lines. Stock (for mine at least) is a flare, but they give you another quick connector fitting for it. Obviously a flare on the radiator won't connect to a quick connect on the line going to the tranny. To make matters worse, the nut on the transmission side of the flared fitting uses standard threads rather than pipe threads that normal flared fittings use. The threads on the radiator are pipe threads as well, and they're welded in so there's no changing fittings or threads on the radiator. Soooo, the two won't connect. In order to connect the two using the flared fitting, you would have to cut the flare off of the transmission hard line, remove the stock nut, and replace it with a flared nut with pipe threads to match the radiator. What I did however, was use the quick connector fitting supplied with the radiator, and I hacked the flare off of the tranny hard line and connected the two with a rubber hose and zip ties. I'll eventually re-flare the end of the tranny hard line for a more secure connection and replace the zip ties with spring clamps but for now it's working just fine with no leaks (tranny lines aren't under much pressure).

Yes, I was very frustrated with having to "fab" a vehicle specific product. I should be used to it though, it seems like at least half of the "bolt in" products I've bought I've needed to do some fabrication on. But my disappointment at the fitting issues were quickly forgotten when I tested the thing out.

I did the electric fan conversion using two stock A/C fans at the same time as the new radiator. It was 100 degrees out the day I got it done, how convenient right? :firedevil: Long story short, I sat in a blacktop parking lot with my A/C on full blast and my temp needle never even flirted with 210, no joke. Since then, I've also driven it around town in 70-80 degree weather with my fans completely unplugged (just for shits and giggles) with my A/C on and never hit 210.

So yea, I'm very happy with mine. As far as performance goes, this thing kicks ass. And it's not painted, it's just aluminum "dust" or oxidation or something from the manufacturing process. I can vouch that the thing is very high quality, looks great sittin in the engine bay :thumbup:
Click to expand...

What did you end up doing about the radiator cap? Do you have any pictures of the problems you ran into?
 
I'll get some pics. And the radiator cap fits, but it's a bitch. The "ears" on the cap stick out a little too far to turn without hitting the radiator support. I'll either use my stock cap or dremel those ears down.

sunburned said:
Sounds worth it if it means you can go a whole day of wheeling/prerunning without having to stop and let the engine cool down. I don't have a problem paying a bit more for quality parts that solve major issues on the Jeep.
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Not that I'm pushing this Champion radiator or anything, I'm just very impressed by it's quality and performance so far. That being said, I have a hard time believing that this thing can be beat performance or quality wise, much less for the money. Seems like Champion pretty much has it licked, it's got 3 cores and it's literally, 100% aluminum. What I'm saying is that I'm not sure a more efficient radiator can be built. You could make an argument for adjusting the size or number of the cores but IMO there wouldn't be a huge difference between them. That's just my .02.
 
Milford Cubicle II said:
I'll get some pics. And the radiator cap fits, but it's a bitch. The "ears" on the cap stick out a little too far to turn without hitting the radiator support. I'll either use my stock cap or dremel those ears down.



Not that I'm pushing this Champion radiator or anything, I'm just very impressed by it's quality and performance so far. That being said, I have a hard time believing that this thing can be beat performance or quality wise, much less for the money. Seems like Champion pretty much has it licked, it's got 3 cores and it's literally, 100% aluminum. What I'm saying is that I'm not sure a more efficient radiator can be built. You could make an argument for adjusting the size or number of the cores but IMO there wouldn't be a huge difference between them. That's just my .02.
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Thanks for your postings on this Milford - I've been wavering back and forth between a CSF and Champion radiator for awhile. At first when I read your "this thing is a POS" thread it turned me off on the Champion, but now I'm pretty sure I'm going with it by what you've recently said and other reviews I've read - so thanks for that.

I have a few questions for you (or anyone really) that I hope you can answer. By chance do you have pics of the "hacking" you had to do to get the radiator to fit? In your previous post when you said "1. The quick connector for the lower tranny cooler line come out too far and interferes with the wheel well area. I zipped off a relief for it with a dremel and that part was A-ok.", is it safe to assume that the the cooler line you speak of that you "zipped off" was on the radiator?

As for your upper fitting problem, is it similar to what happened in this thread - http://www.cherokeeforum.com/f51/cooling-system-upgrade-69207/ in particular post #9?

Oh, I have a 2000 Sport, 6 cylinder.

Thanks!
 
Thanks for the write up milford. I might just go get a new stock cap and see how it fits. Sounds like it works really good. I will be back home Thursday.
 
amorth said:
I have a few questions for you (or anyone really) that I hope you can answer. By chance do you have pics of the "hacking" you had to do to get the radiator to fit? In your previous post when you said "1. The quick connector for the lower tranny cooler line come out too far and interferes with the wheel well area. I zipped off a relief for it with a dremel and that part was A-ok.", is it safe to assume that the the cooler line you speak of that you "zipped off" was on the radiator?

As for your upper fitting problem, is it similar to what happened in this thread - http://www.cherokeeforum.com/f51/cooling-system-upgrade-69207/ in particular post #9?

Oh, I have a 2000 Sport, 6 cylinder.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Here's the "hacking."

IMG_00761.jpg


Here are the two issues as well as their solutions:

1. You can see the little s-bend thing in the wheel well area, that's where I had to trim for the lower tranny cooler fitting to clear. It makes a wider bend than the stock fitting.

2. You can also see what I had to do with the upper tranny line. The stock connection is a flare, but it uses standard threads rather than pipe threads, which is what is welded into the Champion radiator. Therefore, you need to change the female (transmission side of the connection) threads in order for it to fit onto the radiator. And to answer your other question, YES - post 9 of the link you posted (http://www.cherokeeforum.com/f51/cooling-system-upgrade-69207/#post774059) is exactly what I'm talking about. So in order to change the threads, you need a new nut. But to get the old nut off and get the new nut on, the stock flare needs to be cut off. So cut off the flare and replace the nut with the actual flare nut that came with the radiator (with pipe threads instead of standard threads), then re-flare the line with a flaring tool (like in the link) and you're good to go. Or you can do what I did in my pic... I was in a hurry and also didn't feel like buying a flaring tool :greensmok

Hope this helps :)
 
Last edited:
So, here is a question for you...

Lets say you read on here before you bought it that you were going to run into the issues you did. You knew a few things weren't going to line up right and that some modifications would be made. Knowing that and now knowing the quality of the radiator, would you buy another one?

I'm not afraid at all to do a few hacks. In fact, I probably won't use the tranny cooler in the radiator at all. I'll just put a big cooler on in front.

In your opinion is this the radiator I should go with?
 
Well I went ahead and used mine, i was bieng kind of a bitch about it lol, but I really thought it should drop right in.

Thoughts, I used a hammer and folded down the area millford cut off. If I were to do it again I would do what milford did, that area is alot stronger than i thought it would be.

Trans lines, The provided quick connector adaptor works fine other than the clearance issue. For the top line I cut it in the striaght section near the bottom of the radiator and used transmission hose to connect it with the top hookup point on the rad. I however used a hose clamp!(I would change that zip tie millford).

I used my old radiator cap and while its pretty dang close it works OK.

My temps were never bad before, and I actually think it runs a little bit warmer now. However it should be noted that the shroud for my mechanical fan broke into a million pieces when I dropped it the other day. So I can't make any judgements on the cooling of this radiator until I put a shroud back on. It is 92* here right now and I went for about a 10 mile ride in some traffic some highway and the temp is well controlled its just a little warmer than before and I contribute that to the shroud bieng gone. I can tell the shrough makes a difference because the AC fan won't cycle on and off as much with the AC on it stays on almost constantly to keep enough air flow over the condensor. It usually cycles on and off a lot more.

I think the price is fair, the quality of the radiator is great. Its not a bolt in item and if you know that up front you will like it.
 
DrMoab said:
So, here is a question for you...

Lets say you read on here before you bought it that you were going to run into the issues you did. You knew a few things weren't going to line up right and that some modifications would be made. Knowing that and now knowing the quality of the radiator, would you buy another one?

I'm not afraid at all to do a few hacks. In fact, I probably won't use the tranny cooler in the radiator at all. I'll just put a big cooler on in front.

In your opinion is this the radiator I should go with?
Click to expand...

Yes, and most definitely.
 
Ok so I had it out some more, about 30 miles with a max outside temp of 101. It was still running slightly warmer than it did before without the shroud.

While I was out I picked up a new shroud($12 wow). It brought them temps back down and it now runs down on the thermostat and works great. I never had an overheating issue ever but with this much radiator it should never become a problem!
 
DrMoab said:
Bought mine yesterday. Grabbed a 98 electric fan too. Going to try using two electrics and see if it will handle the job. I'll post up my results.
Click to expand...


Hey DrMoab - you were able to get your hands on a Champion for a 91-01 XJ? I've been on their waiting list for about a month now and I haven't heard anything yet. Props if you did! I'm anxious to get one because of this thread.
 
amorth said:
Hey DrMoab - you were able to get your hands on a Champion for a 91-01 XJ? I've been on their waiting list for about a month now and I haven't heard anything yet. Props if you did! I'm anxious to get one because of this thread.
Click to expand...

Got on Ebay Sunday night, placed order, shipped Monday morning.
 
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