AW4 Fluid

[8Mud]

Well you can't really judge an ATF on it's color. It's dyed red to differentiate it from other fluids, and color is not an indicator of it's condition.

Once again, I AGREE THAT DEXRON III IS THE BEST FLUID TO USE.

You used to be able to tell in Dexron I by the color change along with other indicators, no matter what they say ( I also read the letter about color not being an indicator of heat breakdown). Along with the color change, the smell and the feel changes in the later Dexrons along with the color change, earlier (lower mileage) than I recollect.

Dexron is cheap by the case, I do a partial change every year or sooner if the color turns. I do believe my XJ will likely see the junk yard before the tranny fails, so we may never know for sure.

 

[lawsoncl]

1. Just for fun see what Chrysler has to say about using Dexron in there transmissions.

Until recently, their TSBs spec'd Dexron III.

2: If your really interested, do some testing on your own, a few simple tests can tell a story. Friction properties, viscosity, adhesion etc.

Already done. The ATF+4 has a similar viscosity but a lower friction coefficient. It's also supposed to have longer lifespan before it starts breaking down. Dexron IIe and Dexron III have similar properties, but improved viscosity control (ie breakdown) and a better oxidation prevention package. The Dexrons are all forward compatible.

6. Should have kept the letter I once saw, shortly after Chrysler took over Jeep. The object of the whole ATF 3 and 4 controversy was to reduce redundant stocks at the service centers. Not what was best, or even better. Another reason stated in the letter was to avoid Chrysler mechanics from inadvertently using Dexron in Chryco trannies, back to number one.

I can believe that. Chrysler lost a lot of credibility and money due to mechanics putting Dexron in certain Chrysler trannies. The higher friction caused clutch chatter and damage to the clutch facing material.

Just an observation, the newer Dexrons seem more heat sensitive than the older ones were, if nothing else the color changes at lower temperatures or more easily.

Seems backwards as the Dexron III has better oxidation prevention additives. Color is a poor indicator anyway.

 

[Slo-Sho]

Planned obsolescence hard at work. Dex III for life!

 

[ehall]

Dex III for life!

Better hoard up a stash then, cause GM is not renewing licenses for Dex III

 

[5-90]

Better hoard up a stash then, cause GM is not renewing licenses for Dex III

Or just switch to a stick. GL-3 works neatly in an AX-15, as does straight 40 or 50 engine oil (for use in cold climates.)

 

[dlarrivee]

Or just switch to a stick. GL-3 works neatly in an AX-15, as does straight 40 or 50 engine oil (for use in cold climates.)

Haha... That's overkill isn't it?

 

[ColoradoRaptor]

Oh wow...okay, thats good info there. Wasnt aware of that. I think I'd trust Toyota more than Chrysler....:huh: :doh:

Oh well, if my tranny fails with Amsoil in it, they can buy me a new one

Toyota makes a good product............so what..........So do the big 3!!!!! :us:

 

[5-90]

Haha... That's overkill isn't it?

What's overkill? Reports from the field indicate that the AX-15 works well with heavyweight engine oil in colder climes - OEM spec usually calls for 80W-90, IIRC.

I know the idea works with Muncies - it's what we used to do back home. If a very harsh winter was expected (honestly, it usually was...) we'd run the more usual 75W-90 or 80W-90 in summer, and straight 40 in the wintertime. Problem solved.

Save the aluminum case, the AX-15 isn't (structurally speaking) that different from the old Muncies - just that the Muncies had iron cases.

 

[lawsoncl]

I think he meant switching to a stick.

 

[jaburk]

The big ATF debate cracks me up. Everyone has their own horror story of a failure because they used one type or brand of ATF. In reality, most of these stories are just that, stories. They are nothing more than hearsay at best. The Jeep dealership that flushed my tranny uses a multi-vehicle ATF. Most of these meet the requirements of Dexron III and prior as well as ATF+3 and prior. My tranny has 125,000 miles on it and shifts like a brand new one.

 

[Wayne Sihler]

The big ATF debate cracks me up. Everyone has their own horror story of a failure because they used one type or brand of ATF. In reality, most of these stories are just that, stories. They are nothing more than hearsay at best. The Jeep dealership that flushed my tranny uses a multi-vehicle ATF. Most of these meet the requirements of Dexron III and prior as well as ATF+3 and prior. My tranny has 125,000 miles on it and shifts like a brand new one.

Report back after your trans has over 250,000 miles,tell us how much better that ATF+3/4 is then.

Wayne

 

[jaburk]

Report back after your trans has over 250,000 miles,tell us how much better that ATF+3/4 is then.

Wayne

If you actually read my post, you would see that I am using multi-vehicle ATF and not ATF+3/4. There are many factors that determine the life span of a tranny other that the ATF itself. Dexron may be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but the fact of the matter is that it is being phased out.

 

[ehall]

Dexron III is being phased out, Dexron VI is being phased in.

I'm using VI and my 334k mile AW4 is loving it. Shifts above 2nd are like butter and 1st to 2nd has gotten a lot better in the last week.

 

[5-90]

If you actually read my post, you would see that I am using multi-vehicle ATF and not ATF+3/4. There are many factors that determine the life span of a tranny other that the ATF itself. Dexron may be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but the fact of the matter is that it is being phased out.

"Multi-vehicle" fluids are a compromise - but it sounds like "multi-vehicle ATF" is a better compromise than the ones we're usually offered.

You're not using +3/+4, so you're on the right track. Yes, there are other factors in automatic transmission longevity (heat and loading are the critical factors,) but fluid has a good deal to do with how both of those are handled.

So, what "multi-vehicle" fluid are you using? How long have you been using it, and have you noted any changes in operation at all? Do you happen to have a transmission temperature gage installed? Have you noted any changes there?

(In case you're wondering - I'm just gathering information. I don't have enough information - yet - to confirm or deny what you've been saying, so I've started gathering it...)

 

[Dzl DV8]

I just had to pipe in from experience.
When a dealer puts the wrong fluid in a 100k vehicle and you want them to foot the bill, you will need to prove it in court. They won't pay for squat.

 

[8Mud]

The big ATF debate cracks me up. Everyone has their own horror story of a failure because they used one type or brand of ATF. In reality, most of these stories are just that, stories. They are nothing more than hearsay at best. The Jeep dealership that flushed my tranny uses a multi-vehicle ATF. Most of these meet the requirements of Dexron III and prior as well as ATF+3 and prior. My tranny has 125,000 miles on it and shifts like a brand new one.

Empirical data is just as valid as anybody else's data, often more so because it's generally without an agenda.
Look at it, rub it between your fingers (check for grit), smell it, taste it, look at the results over a year or two or twenty.
Take apart a tranny and look at the nooks and crannies where grit and varnish deposits collect and ask yourself if it is a good idea to flush a tranny and move that junk through the valve body.

 

[dlarrivee]

5-90, I meant that it was overkill to switch to a stick because no one can agree on what ATF to use.. haha, just a joke buddy.

What do you mean when you say reports from the field though? Do you work at a Dealer?

I honestly, think at this point I'd just use whatever Multi-Vehicle ATF (that's supposed to be used in a Dexron III spec tranny), or Dexron/Merc, would be what I would personally put in my tranny.

I just wonder, if I went to get a flush done, if the shop I took it to would argue with me if I wanted them to use a certain fluid but they insisted on ATF+4 or something...

 

[JNickel101]

Toyota makes a good product............so what..........So do the big 3!!!!! :us:

From top to bottom, every vehicle that Toyota makes is damn near top of the line....

by "Big 3" i'm sure you are talking about Ford, GM, and Chrysler

Chrysler, I'm giving a mulligan to - let them fix the crap that Daimler f-ed up

Ford makes awesome trucks, and a few ok SUVs...I'd still never buy a car with a Ford oval on it...

GM...well...ummm....next question.

Being in the military, I'd say I'm as American as they come, but if I want a car that's gonna last for 200,000 miles, I'd get a Toyota or Honda (which are probably more Made in the USA than the "big 3")

 

[JNickel101]

What do you mean when you say reports from the field though? Do you work at a Dealer?

He means his reports come from people who actually own and operate a Jeep with an AW4 and have tried the "fluid that has proven to work all the time" and the one that is "hit or miss"

Just FYI, you're making yourself look like a real smartass and jackass on here. 5-90 is one of the most knowledgable and respected members on this board, and you attempting to go toe to toe with him shows your ignorance. You keep contradicting yourself - when in fact you should just listen to what the man says. His record speaks for itself.

atriot:

 

[jaburk]

When I had initial concerns about my trans flush, I emailed the Dealership and this is the response I got from Jeffrey Davis at Lithia Jeep in Colorado Springs, CO:

The fluid that is used from our bulk tank is a multi vehicle atf, which I have specs on here and shows to be compatible with both dex-3 and atf +4, as well as merc v and SLF. We have been using this fluid for years and have never had any issues or concerns caused by fluid replacement. I checked with my trans tech to address your concerns, he has given me no reason to be concerned about the fluid used. I understand your concern and have wanted to take the time to ask several people about this fluid and all of them say it will be no problems, most of the techs I have asked have been with Chrysler for 10 years or more. I hope this helps you in some way.

Since the flush, I belive the trannys shifting is basically the same or possibly a little firmer. I do run an aftermarket tranny cooler and I do not tow with my XJ. The only problem I have is that I believe its time to pull the NSS and give it a good cleaning.