AW4 fixed...but not!

[ParadiseXJ]

Why did you pull the AW4 to begin with? Front seal leak?

I also wonder if your AW4 somehow got air in it and foamed up. Read some interesting stuff recently about easy foaming operating conditions, too little or too much fluid, too high and rpm, too hot....that makes the blow out the seals and dip stick.

I pulled the tranny because it stopped going. It was full of fluid, but it was acting like the torque converter was empty. Several people said "your tranny is shot". I refused to believe that since I had no other issues with it...it felt like the torque converter did in my XJ when I popped a line and it drained out all the fluid. So, I pulled it, took the TCC to a local shop, he played with it for a while, shook it, tested the inner spline play...told me it was shot.

I also wonder if your AW4 somehow got air in it and foamed up

When I put the TCC back in, I check for play (up, down, in, out, rotational) in the input and output and scored or chipped spline/gears on the shaft and TCC...nothing, everything appeared perfect. I did not use the actual Jeep trans line connectors, I used generic connectors, that seemed to fit but I had rather a bich of a time getting them back in. I used the proper O-ring, spacer, o-ring configuration...but the clip was different and I don't think it sealed/clicked in very well. So if any air got in there, that would be the likely entry point. I'm still not sure if the vent hose is kinked either. I replaced the hose and changed the routing, and once I put the tranny back in...I'm not dead sure it's NOT kinked.

 

[ParadiseXJ]

Sound's like the torque converter wasn't installed properly at some point.

I've installed many a torque converter and I have a good system, I'm 99.9% sure that it was installed correctly and clicked in (3 clicks/clunks). When I measure the nose to flange it's dead on.

 

[Ecomike]

I had hell with the aftermarket tube connectors too that looked and acted like a match except the last step. Thought I had them in and clicked until I found quarts of fluid in my driveway the next morning.

I finally found the right ones after weeks of searching at one of the off road jeep stores online or at the wholesaler for trany parts.

Why don't you think the valve body might be an issue.....

 

[Transpoquick]

I've installed many a torque converter and I have a good system, I'm 99.9% sure that it was installed correctly and clicked in (3 clicks/clunks). When I measure the nose to flange it's dead on.

I'm not saying it was you, but unless you've owned the vehicle since it was brand new its hard to say.
Using the bolts to pull the trans and engine together is bad because if you have to do that it means the torque converter is not seated properly.
End result will be fluid everywhere and bolts backing off, if it works at all.
After the transmission is installed the torque converter should have to be pulled towards the front of the vehicle slightly to be bolted to the flex plate, from my exp.

 

[ParadiseXJ]

I finally found the right ones after weeks of searching at one of the off road jeep stores online or at the wholesaler for trany parts.

Why don't you think the valve body might be an issue.....

For now I'm not suspicious of the valve body because I had absolutely zero issues with it before this happened. The tranny gave me a couple little screeches, and I stopped going (the original why I pulled it) Good fluid, good color, good power...oh, and because I don't want to break open the tranny...I may be in denial.

But now I have the correct connectors...Ha Ha...$12.50 each x2 + shipping = +/-$30.00. And they didn't even take me out to dinner

...and transpo, When I put in the TCC and put the tranny back in, once the bell housing was flush and on the locating dowels, I bolted it up. Then I reached up through the starter hole and turned the TCC to the first bolt hole, the pad for the first hole had to come forward a tiny bit. It wasn't flat up against the flexplate, maybe 1/8" to 1/4" until I put a bolt in it. I know I've done some crazy dumb/ignorant things learning about my Jeeps, and vehicles in general so I don't take offense at ANYTHING I could have screwed up. I could write a book (well, maybe a pamphlet) about the obvious mistakes I've made.

 

[Transpoquick]

Well that's good, if you have to pull the tc up to the flex plate it's installed properly.
But I have one more question going back to post #1, when you installed the tc did you pour some fluid into it while it's laying flat on the ground?.

 

[Ecomike]

My thought is the first original problem might have been the valve body and not the TC, or both if parts from one, the TC, made it to the valves in the valve body. The R&R might have jared the junk loose to a new spot and a new problem? I need to pull out my manual and bone up on symptoms....vs causes.

 

[ParadiseXJ]

Well that's good, if you have to pull the tc up to the flex plate it's installed properly.
But I have one more question going back to post #1, when you installed the tc did you pour some fluid into it while it's laying flat on the ground?.

No, the guy at the tranny shop told me not to. He said "Add 5 qts to the pan with the engine off, then start the truck in Neutral, add 2 more quarts, check your level. If the pump is doing it's job, it will fill the TCC and read low". Then he said to top off the fluid with another 2 - 2.5 qts. or so

The level of fluid came out just about perfect, a little high. I drained out around a cup, drove it for a week or two, and it needed a bit more, no leaks. He expressly said NOT to fill it until I installed it. All the other TCC's I've put in, I've added fluid first.

 

[ParadiseXJ]

My thought is the first original problem might have been the valve body and not the TC, or both if parts from one, the TC, made it to the valves in the valve body. The R&R might have jared the junk loose to a new spot and a new problem? I need to pull out my manual and bone up on symptoms....vs causes.

I would appreciate that, since all I have is a Chiltons.

The tranny didn't "go" at all with the old torque converter in it, full fluid, cherry red, no chunks, no pieces of metal on the magnets, zero leaks anywhere.

I put in a new torque converter, new fluid, new seals. No other changes...and it worked, and worked well for a couple weeks. I understand that there "might" have been a booger or something that got moved, not likely, but possible and I previously didn't even consider that.

All I know for sure is, my truck is sitting out back, non op. :gee:

 

[Transpoquick]

When installing a tc I always flip it over and get as much of the existing fluid out, new ones have some welding and brazing slag in them from manufacturing, used ones got junk in them as well.
Once that is done, flip it back over and get as much fluid in it as possible.
Getting the fluid level right can be tricky, I like to check mine in the summer when it's hot w/ someone in the car shifting it through the gears and me under the hood, then I check the level.
The level changes a lot from when you get out of the vehicle and under the hood.
I've never heard of not pouring fluid into a tc before installation.
But that's just my 2cent.

 

[ParadiseXJ]

Re: AW4 fixed...PERIOD!!

It's been a long haul, but the Jeep is back on the road.

I dropped the trans, pulled the torque converter, seal in place. Bought a new seal, pulled out the OLD new seal, took the NEW seal out of the box, and that's when I saw it.

The OLD new seal was the wrong size. It was plain as day holding it up next to the NEW seal. The I.D. was a good 1/8" bigger than the new seal. The new seal was almost twice as thick (depth wise) the old seal was plastic and about 1/4" thick where the new seal is about 5/16" thick.

Hasta

So, after all that it was just a case of putting in the wrong seal. I've driven it over 200 miles since Friday without a single drip, drop, seep or ooze. Drives strong. I declare this problem to be FIXED.

arty:

Moral: Take old parts with you to the parts store before you go dropping your transmission

:wow:

 

[Transpoquick]

Well okay but, please clarify.
Did you put a mopar seal in?, or a aftermarket type?

 

[ParadiseXJ]

Yes, the second seal I got from the dealer...BUT...I had also ordered one from Morris 4x4. The one that came from Morris 4x4 (Crown) looks identical to the seal from the Jeep dealer and appears to be made of the same stuff. The one from the parts store was obviously listed or picked wrong...so it wasn't the seal itself...just the parts guy, giving me the wrong part AND me not paying attention to what I took out or matching up the two parts.

In another SNAFU, the rear output seal on the t-case, was also wrong. I saw that when I bought it. It was a Timken seal, so I figured good, good brand, but different design. The old seal (the one I took out)on the t-case was just a flat piece, the one they gave me was the flat part but with a cone type end. I had to do some searching to get the right seal for that.

The Jeep is an 88 4.0 with a 93 AW4 tranny and a 94 NP231 case, so I suppose I confuse the parts guy every time I go in there.

...and kudos to Morris 4x4 for ALWAYS getting my orders right.

 

[Ecomike]

Similar problem years ago replacing my ignition key lock mech on my 85. I forgot the steering column was a junk yard buy, no idea what year.:scared: Glad I had the old part!!!!