AW4 fixed...but not!

[ParadiseXJ]

Hello Jeepers,

I posted awhile ago with a transmission issue on my 88 MJ. I did not think the transmission was shot, even though the truck would not move, although the engine ran fine. It felt to me like a torque converter, so I took it to a shop and the guy told me my torque converter was shot. So, I replaced it.

Along the way I replaced all the shaft seals. Front behind the torque converter, transmission output, t-case input, t-case output. I replaced all the vent hoses too, because they were squishy and worn out...and the linkage bushings for the t-case linkage.

I put it all back together. I filled it up with fluid, 8 qts. I drove it. All good June 1st. Engine runs good, tranny shifts really well, in all gears it feels just a skosh stronger. Drove it around town, to the dump (20 miles r/t), up hills, down hills, freeway, dirt roads. Added a bit more fluid according to the dipstick (hot, running and in Neutral). Everything perfect.

Fast forward to last Wednesday. I pack it up to go camping, not a big load, canoe, camping gear etc. Check all the fluids, all good. Hit the road. I get about 15 miles from home and started laying down a James Bond smoke screen. Stop the truck, look under, think I may have filled it too full and fluid was puking out the dipstick. Nope, there is fresh red fluid POURING out the front of the bell housing. Result...towed home, switch to my car...go on trip.

Can anyone give me a good reason why the front seal would have blown out, and/or if there would be anything else that would cause this hemorrhage.

 

[Ecomike]

Bad parts used and or bad assembly technique. Or some kind of flow blockage internally causing excess pressure that takes that route to exit? Best I got. Misalignment somewhere?

 

[ParadiseXJ]

Bad parts used and or bad assembly technique. Or some kind of flow blockage internally causing excess pressure that takes that route to exit? Best I got. Misalignment somewhere?

It has never run, shifted, sputtered, or jerked. The fluid is and always has been clean and clear. I'm at a loss, I was very deliberate about setting the seal, with the right tools until it bottomed out. I didn't damage it, I set the torque converter (three clicks) the same way.

All I can think of is:

I damaged the seal (or it didn't set right)

• The pump is damaged (but it has never given me a bit of trouble)
• I kinked the new vent hose.
• My tranny is now an anchor.

I don't get how a perfectly good running tranny can spit out a seal like that. Thanks for replying.

I'm going to drop the trans and give it one more try, then I'll know whether it's something I can fix from the outside...or it's time for a new trans. Thanks again.

 

[ehall]

might have knocked the spring off the seal or something, it happens

 

[ParadiseXJ]

I know, what I almost did was not connect the quik-connects on the transmission before I started it...at least I did THAT. The weird part is that I drove it around for a week with zero leaking and good performance...and then when I really wanted to get out on a road trip...POW. At least it happened close to home and not out in the boonies.

 

[Ecomike]

Check the AW4 manual and see if a stuck valve in the valve body from a tiny piece of dirt that was already in or got into the valve body, can cause high pressure at the seal and this the leak. If yes just pull the valve body and swap out a new one and see if the seal leak stops. That was one of the 2 things I was trying to say before.

Also, I had 78 dodge that ate up Torque converter hubs every 12-18 months and after 10 years and 6 replacements I discovered the thrust bearings on the crank shaft had 1/4" or more of play in them :rattle:

Found that the day the V-8 started knocking real bad at about 400,000 miles.

It has never run, shifted, sputtered, or jerked. The fluid is and always has been clean and clear. I'm at a loss, I was very deliberate about setting the seal, with the right tools until it bottomed out. I didn't damage it, I set the torque converter (three clicks) the same way.

All I can think of is:

I damaged the seal (or it didn't set right)

• The pump is damaged (but it has never given me a bit of trouble)
• I kinked the new vent hose.
• My tranny is now an anchor.

I don't get how a perfectly good running tranny can spit out a seal like that. Thanks for replying.

I'm going to drop the trans and give it one more try, then I'll know whether it's something I can fix from the outside...or it's time for a new trans. Thanks again.

 

[ParadiseXJ]

Will do, thanks.

 

[Ecomike]

Will do, thanks.

I think I have read somewhere of some transmissions loosing pressure control and doing that, in fact have you recalibrate the pressure control line to the transmission that is attached to the throttle body????? That could be the issue!!!!

 

[ParadiseXJ]

Do you mean simply adjusting the TV cable...or more complicated than that. Because I have done that.

Assuming because "re-calibrating" sounds more complicated than "adjusting", I'd best do some more searching. I'm still holding off dropping the trans until it cools off. By the time I get home from work, work...it's right around 100F and I'm tired. I need a cool morning

 

[Ecomike]

Adjusting the cable, nothing more. Could be cable or the cam it is attached to above the pan be stuck and making the pressure too high? Is the adjuster working right?

100 F is that why they call it paradise?

 

[8Mud]

I'd set up a dial gauge and check the out of round or wobble on my new torque converter. And/or wonder about the balance.

I learned the hard way to always coat a new seal with assembly lube or graphite grease. It doesn't take a new seal long to burn up a large part of it's life expectancy running dry. Takes a few seconds for most new assemblies to oil up all the places that need it, that few seconds can be deadly..

 

[ParadiseXJ]

Adjusting the cable, nothing more. Could be cable or the cam it is attached to above the pan be stuck and making the pressure too high? Is the adjuster working right?

100 F is that why they call it paradise?

Yes, the adjuster is working fine, as it should. I inspected the connection of the cable inside the trans while I had it out, just in case, since I would have replaced the cable, but it all looks fine, clean and tight.

95-100F is pretty normal here for summer, but we're in the hills, down in the valley, 12 miles away, the forecast for next week is 105-108

I'd set up a dial gauge and check the out of round or wobble on my new torque converter. And/or wonder about the balance.

I learned the hard way to always coat a new seal with assembly lube or graphite grease. It doesn't take a new seal long to burn up a large part of it's life expectancy running dry. Takes a few seconds for most new assemblies to oil up all the places that need it, that few seconds can be deadly..

I put some trans fluid on the inside of the seal, but not assembly lube or grease or anything special and I cleaned and dried the trans and the outside of the seal. The installation of the seal is definitely been on my mind.

I don't know how to set up a dial gauge. I was going to buy the regular replacement torque converter from NAPA, but the tranny shop owner (that I know and trust) talked me in to buying one from his source. So I'm fairly confident that the converter is OK...but, worth a shot.

 

[Transpoquick]

Maybe you need a seal retainer kit.
When the input shaft seal is replaced, sometimes the o.d. bore in the transmission gets worn.
The torque converter will be a little "wobbly" in the trans. until it's all bolted together, that's normal.
OEM seal's are alway's the best solution though.

 

[ParadiseXJ]

Maybe you need a seal retainer kit.
When the input shaft seal is replaced, sometimes the o.d. bore in the transmission gets worn.
.

I thought of a set up like that...BUT...I haven't cracked it open to see if the actual seal popped out or the oil just "blew past" the seal...so far it's too frikken hot to get anything done in the afternoon after a 10 hour shift at work. 105-107 yesterday. I'm working outside.

So, what does a seal retainer kit look like? I'm also waiting for the guts of the quik-connecter on the trans (O-rings, spacer, clip) The generic ones that I have are not "clicking" in very well...back to the drawing board this weekend...only supposed to be a cool 99F.

 

[Transpoquick]

It's a ring w/ clips on it, that attaches to the input seal, and the trans. case.
I don't know if they make one for that transmission though.
Napa is where I got one, but for a 4L60e.
It's cheap insurance, there is quite a bit of pressure on that seal and if its really easy to drive the seal into the bore, probably a good idea.

 

[Ecomike]

Have you checked to make sure all the bell housing and flex plate bolts are fully threaded into place and the bell housing is flush????

 

[ParadiseXJ]

Have you checked to make sure all the bell housing and flex plate bolts are fully threaded into place and the bell housing is flush????

Yes, and painstakingly. Interesting that you should mention that because I swapped out the top two reverse torx bolts for regular hex heads and the stock length of those bolts is supposed to be 1 3/4"...but all they had was either 1 1/2 or 2" bolts...so I bought both sizes. The 1.5" seemed a bit short (not a lot of engagement), and the 2" sounded like they might bottom out. I put a lock washer on the 2" bolts and thy tightened up just fine.

When I dropped the tranny the first time, one of the lower (bigger) bolts was completely missing...doh! The other had backed out about 1/2". I bought new flange bolts for them too and used blue thread locker. When I put the tranny back in, I didn't (as they say not to) use the bolts to pull the tranny into place, it was flat, flush with no gaps all the way around before I even put a bolt in. I also bought new crank bolts and new flexplate bolts AND a new reinforcing ring...there wasn't one before...on the flexplate.

So, as I said...Yes, they're tight and flush.

 

[Ecomike]

Why did you pull the AW4 to begin with? Front seal leak?

Could the prior bolt issues have damage something that is now affecting seal alignment? Did you check the front input shaft bearing for any play while it was out? Those two missing/loose bolts and missing reinforcing plate may done damage to the alignment of the shaft in the seal. I had one leak bad on a 73 Ford LTD, that leaked because the car sat in drive way unused for 2-3 years. Driving it daily with leak sealer (trans-x) fixed it for 4-5 years before I sold it. The input shaft sitting on the lower part of the seal and not moving for 2-3 years, made the seal out of round. I also wonder if your AW4 somehow got air in it and foamed up. Read some interesting stuff recently about easy foaming operating conditions, too little or too much fluid, too high and rpm, too hot....that makes the blow out the seals and dip stick.

 

[Ecomike]

These guys might have some answers. They sell parts wholesale only to the tranny shops and rebuilders.

http://www.transmissionpartsusa.com/A340_transmission_parts_s/877.htm

Only place I could find some parts new over the years.

 

[Transpoquick]

Sound's like the torque converter wasn't installed properly at some point.