4.6L Stroker, Help me build it please!

[Flash]

I'd say this has pretty much solidly been attributed to the lower ZDDP in current oils... At least that the best theory so far. It's interesting that the failures tend to happen 15 or 20k miles down the road, after the cam break in additives supplied with the cams have been changed out a time or three. Both Crane and Comp cams have been called into question, I believe most of that is simply the fact that they are two of the most popular makers.

There are no roller lifters for the 4.0, although some on the strokers yahoo group have gotten some Mopar V8 roller lifters to physically fit inside, none have been run due to the lack of a roller cam. Roller lifters will eat a normal cam.


Joe Gibbs racing makes extremely expensive oil for racing, it has little to no detergent, and is thus, a bad idea to run on a street engine.
That goes for basically all race oil's as they are formulated for engines that will be torn down regularly.

One of the additives you're thinking of is GM EOS which can be added at every change to boost levels of ZDDP. EOS is now being marketed under the AC Delco flag and is probably going to be available at parts stores instead of just GM service counters. This info is direct from the strokers list, which seems to be on the cutting edge of issues like this.

1Bolt,
I Just need to clarify one thing, the Roller Lifter that have been figured out and fit in the 4.0L are designed for a AMC V8 not Chry.


Flash.

 

[Flash]

Well five cancer sticks later. I gave McCabe Motorsports a call and he is gone til the 16th. So the 16th Ill be giving him a call and get a quote and drop it off. Get it done then buy some porable heaters for my garage and get it in.

Im going to get a quote on decking, piston cc and balancing. Ill ask for a compression of 9.3:1 so I can run 91octane. Hopefully I can still use the .045 headgasket.

So yea I guess Ill read some more articles while its gone and get my intake setup done.

Hold on XJoshua, let make sure of your compression ratio and you quench before you disassemble it unnecessarily.

What is this about double head gasket or shimming it?

Give me your spec's and i will give you your Exact compression ratio(static)

Head gasket thickness
distance of piston from piston to top of deck.(at top dead center)
How many CC of volume are in the dish of the piston.
How many CC of cylinder head volume.
And bore and stroke.

With all of this I can get you your Static Compression Ratio and you Quench hight.

I haven't been around sense the CRASH but i can get it done this weekend if you will double check your specs and give them to me again.

and after that if your still wanting to have some FUN we can figure out DCR.

Flash.

 

[alex22]

1bolt, do you have more info about the roller lifter conversion in the 4.0. I Do plan on breaking my engine in on Gibbs BR then useing the additive in the rest of the changes. The Gibbs oil is expensive, but the shop I work in is a dealer for gibbs, so its not as expensive for me.
My brother's truck (67 Dodge D100 with a 318) had a cam loose a lobe and eat a lifter. It is a COMP cam and he used GTX oil in it for every change, between 2 and 3 months. He put a new lifter in it and its runing fine, it was an intake so its not building excesesive cyl pressure.

 

[Flash]

1bolt, do you have more info about the roller lifter conversion in the 4.0. I Do plan on breaking my engine in on Gibbs BR then useing the additive in the rest of the changes. The Gibbs oil is expensive, but the shop I work in is a dealer for gibbs, so its not as expensive for me.
My brother's truck (67 Dodge D100 with a 318) had a cam loose a lobe and eat a lifter. It is a COMP cam and he used GTX oil in it for every change, between 2 and 3 months. He put a new lifter in it and its runing fine, it was an intake so its not building excesesive cyl pressure.

If you are real interest in the Hyd Roller Cam and Lifter set up for the 4.0L................
Here is a link that will get you up to speed on the subject.

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=918403


Flash.

 

[Flash]

OK here are the spec' that i have gather from your posts and some i had to guess, such as head cc. I got that one from my spare head.

Bore: 3.935"

stroke: 3.895'

Combustion chamber volume[cc]: 57cc

Head gasket bore: 4.00"

Head gasket thickness: .043"

Piston to deck clearance .0615"

Piston Dish Volume: 12.2cc

Making your SCR of 9.60 and your Quench height at .1045"
Now if you increase the piston dish volume from 12.2 to 20cc
Your compression ratio would drop to 8.91 but you Quench height would still be at .1045
Because it is measure at to top of the piston not the bowl area.......Makes sence?

Now if you shaved or Deck the block .020" your compression would go up from 8.91 to 9.25 and you Quench would go down(better) to .0845

Now lets say you shaved the head instead of the block .020"

Your compression ratio would still go from 8.91 to 9.25 But your quench would stay the same at .1045"

Now as you can see, alltho quench seams to fallow compression ratio, it really doesnt.

With your spec's and sence you live at high altitude, you might get away with 9.60 compression ratio but the Quench is not good at .1045



Flash.

 

[alex22]

An interesting read, I have a few phone calls to make.

I just realized I kinda hijacked this thread, so back to the point...

EDIT: after posting i looked up and saw that flash had posted while i was typing my responce. I'll leave this up anyway.



XJoshua, I went back a few pages and joted down your engine's specs and ran this compression calculator. I used Post #172's info and the deck height stated in post #203. Did I read correctly that your piston is .0615 in the hole? This would be the deepest piston ive ever seen. The cheap accurate way to measure piston depth is to a cheap set of calipers (a $20 pair will do) and measure to the piston over the wrist pin at TDC. The compression ratio the progame gave was 9.04:1

correct me if i'm wrong on any of this information.
6 cyl
bore: 3.935
stroke: 3.895
head volume: 56cc
piston volume: 12.2cc
head gasket: .045
Deck height: .0615
(actually piston depth)


*for this program a dished piston's volume is positive and a positive piston height means it is below the deck surface.

Just wondering, what is the labor rate of the shop you are using?
~Alex

 

[Flash]

An interesting read, I have a few phone calls to make.

I just realized I kinda hijacked this thread, so back to the point...

EDIT: after posting i looked up and saw that flash had posted while i was typing my responce. I'll leave this up anyway.



XJoshua, I went back a few pages and joted down your engine's specs and ran this compression calculator. I used Post #172's info and the deck height stated in post #203. Did I read correctly that your piston is .0615 in the hole? This would be the deepest piston ive ever seen. The cheap accurate way to measure piston depth is to a cheap set of calipers (a $20 pair will do) and measure to the piston over the wrist pin at TDC. The compression ratio the progame gave was 9.04:1

correct me if i'm wrong on any of this information.
6 cyl
bore: 3.935
stroke: 3.895
head volume: 56cc
piston volume: 12.2cc
head gasket: .045
Deck height: .0615
(actually piston depth)


*for this program a dished piston's volume is positive and a positive piston height means it is below the deck surface.

Just wondering, what is the labor rate of the shop you are using?
~Alex

OK, This is a little bit disturbing and so i re did the compression ratio manually (With a calculator and math:read: :shocked:

First off the formula......... .7854 x Bore x Bore X Stroke +Deck volume (between piston and the deck suffice a T.D.C) + head gasket volume+ head Volume.....Devided by volume above the piston at T.D.C.


Soooo
Displacement in cc
.7854 x 3.935 x 3.935 x 3.895=47.36 x 16.387(Converts Cubic inches to Cubic Centimeters)=776.22[cc] This is the cc of the Eng stroke.

Piston to deck volume in cc
.7854 x 3.935 x 3.935 x.0615= .747 x 16.387 = 12.25 + piston dish volume 12.2= 24.45cc

Head gasket cc
,7854 x 4.00 x 4.00 x .045 =56 x 16.387 =9.26cc

Head cc of 56cc

Now, total volume is 776.22 + 24.45 + 9.26 + 56 = 865.93cc
Volume above piston at T.D.C is 24.45 + 9.26 + 56 = 89.71cc

"Compression Ratio' is figured by total volume divided by volume at T.D.C so........
865.93 Divided by 89.71 = 9.65

With my computer compression program, and using alex22 found numbers it cam up with a compression ratio of 9.65136 and using the math above the exact compression ratio was 9.652547

alex22, please don't thing that I'm picking on you Because I'M NOT. There have been to calculation that have come up with a basically 9.00 compression ratio and i had to be sure that my present Internet program was accurate and that i was Putin the data in correctly.
I have showed all of my work, so if i have calculated something wrong, there will be some one to correct me. And i encourage this as it will help me decide if i might want to consider a different compression calculator.
I like the one i have because i can figure out SCR as well as DCR, (if a intake valve, close degree can be had.) And it take 5 minutes to do the the figure instead Well a whole lot more time to do the math above.:confused1


Flash

 

[alex22]

I included all of the info and the link for the program because the answer was so diferent than the rest of your calculations. I will do the calculation for compression ratio with the calculation we use at work. I'm pretty sure its the same as the one you used.

~Alex

 

[Flash]

I included all of the info and the link for the program because the answer was so diferent than the rest of your calculations. I will do the calculation for compression ratio with the calculation we use at work. I'm pretty sure its the same as the one you used.

~Alex

Hay Alex, go here.

http://cochise.uia.net/pkelley2/DynamicCR.html

then go down to the bottom of the page. You will find 2 different down load.......I thing that I'm using the first on in the list.
they are not ones that you can us on the Internet, you have to down load it to you computer.........now i thing about it, i thing i down loaded the 2nt on because i was afraid my computer wouldn't have the soft ware needed to run it.


Flash.

 

[XJoshua]

From what I was told the 96-98 ps motor bracket will work with the 99+ intake. Well it doesnt. The intake mounts are about 1/2" further apart. So it will bolt up fine to a renix. So couldnt I just grind away the bottom mount on the intake and call it fine since it works fine for the top mount?

 

[Frank Z]

My 97 pump bolted up just fine to my 99 intake...which is bolted onto my 96 block. What the hell are you doing to that poor motor?!?!:jester:

 

[XJoshua]

I really have no clue as to what the hell Im doing now. I think all my sanity is gone.

I got a 96 mount from a member off a 96 motor. It work for the motor but not the intake. So yea I have no clue why the hell it wont fit on my 99 intake.

 

[Frank Z]

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6355

 

[Flash]

Well five cancer sticks later. I gave McCabe Motorsports a call and he is gone til the 16th. So the 16th Ill be giving him a call and get a quote and drop it off. Get it done then buy some porable heaters for my garage and get it in.

Im going to get a quote on decking, piston cc and balancing. Ill ask for a compression of 9.3:1 so I can run 91octane. Hopefully I can still use the .045 headgasket.

So yea I guess Ill read some more articles while its gone and get my intake setup done.

So are you going back together or have you deside to take it to McCabe Motorsports?

Flash

 

[XJoshua]

I talked to McCabe Motorsports today and for: decking the block, blancing the rotating assembly, mounting/unmounting pistons, cc the pistons, install freeze plugs(again), cam bearings(new to replace the already new), and tanking. Im looking at $450. Ugh So far after that I will have payed over $1300 in machining. DONT TAKE YOUR MOTOR TO BALCHUCK IF YOU LIVE IN PUEBLO!!!

Then after that smooth sailing. Im dropping the motor off next thursday if I can find a ride. Also my dad failed to pay for my insurance which I have given him money for so I no longer have insurance and must drive the safe long way to work to avoid accidents and police. Also my mom wont let me take her explorer since I dont have insurance on my vehicle. Which doesnt make since, since I thought allstate allowed others to drive vehicles which arent their own vehicles as long as the vehicle youre driving has insurance. Ughh.

So give me til the end of novemeber and itll be fucking done! I hope my 5m-ge into a 6m-ge goes smoother. I just have to deal with self adjusting valve lifters is the only problem I can see.

 

[Flash]

I talked to McCabe Motorsports today and for: decking the block, blancing the rotating assembly, mounting/unmounting pistons, cc the pistons, install freeze plugs(again), cam bearings(new to replace the already new), and tanking. Im looking at $450. Ugh So far after that I will have payed over $1300 in machining. DONT TAKE YOUR MOTOR TO BALCHUCK IF YOU LIVE IN PUEBLO!!!

Then after that smooth sailing. Im dropping the motor off next thursday if I can find a ride. Also my dad failed to pay for my insurance which I have given him money for so I no longer have insurance and must drive the safe long way to work to avoid accidents and police. Also my mom wont let me take her explorer since I dont have insurance on my vehicle. Which doesnt make since, since I thought allstate allowed others to drive vehicles which arent their own vehicles as long as the vehicle youre driving has insurance. Ughh.

So give me til the end of novemeber and itll be fucking done! I hope my 5m-ge into a 6m-ge goes smoother. I just have to deal with self adjusting valve lifters is the only problem I can see.

Please tell me that when you said "cc the piston" you mean machining the bowl deeper.
Becouse i don't thing it's worth it, if thats all they are going to do.

Flash

 

[XJoshua]

Yes he will be machinig the bowl deeper and decking the block. He quoted me th highest prices. So itll probally be much chaper.

 

[Flash]

Yes he will be machinig the bowl deeper and decking the block. He quoted me th highest prices. So itll probally be much chaper.

Cool, :yelclap: :wave:


Flash

 

[XJoshua]

Alright got the engine disassembled. And Im walking the clean as hell crankshaft to its clean resting area and trip over a wrench. I think I might have shit myself. All I thought about was save the crankshaft. So I fall and land on my back then the crankshart weights impel my chest. I go two bruises on my chest now. So just goes to show I would die for my jeep or engine.

 

[jeepinwi]

IMO, you are getting RAPED on machining costs. My entire machine bill was $409. That included boring the cylinders, installing freeze plugs, installing pistons onto rods, refinishing big end of rods, install cam bearings, flattening head, 3 angle valve job, reassembling head, and steam cleaning everything.

There is a point where building a stroker yourself is pointless when you can buy a Titan engine for not a whole lot more money. Plus you get a nice warranty on that engine.