McCain admits he does not know how to use a computer

[Ecomike]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/11/mccain-admits-he-doesnt-k_n_106478.html

[scottmcneal]

Shit i still need help.. Can you teach me all wise one? :kissyou:

[oo7ravisXJ]

So? :dunno: He's old, most old people are computer illiterate.

[scottmcneal]

Thats all you got today MIKE? Mine i put up today is better, dam your getting slow.. Have a GREAT day.. Just pulling your leg mike.. So when you coming over to teach me how to work this thing?


PS MIKE, look at sig.. Change it today for you sir...

[RTicUL8]

I bet he doesn't know how to change the time on a VCR or DVD player either.

He still gets my vote! :thumbup:

Go flyboy! :D

.

[red91]

Yeah...he can't use a computer, but can obama or biden darn socks?

I bet not.

You damn well know Sarah can!

All McCain needs to do is push the big red button.

[Goatman]

He has plenty of people around him who can.

Hmmm......maybe he makes up his own mind without reading a bunch of crap on the Internet. :)

[red91]

He has plenty of people around him who can.

Hmmm......maybe he makes up his own mind without reading a bunch of crap on the Internet. :)


He has people "trolling" our board ?

Cool !

[Steve_Moore]

That makes him all the more human to me. I think you just talked me into voting for the man! :peace:

[scottmcneal]

I think we owe mike a BIG thank you for getting these guys to vote..Can i get a second on this?

[8Mud]

That's OK I can't fly a fighter, we all have our talents. I bet he could still do Ok playing Ace Combat on the X box, with a little practice.

[Ecomike]

That's OK I can't fly a fighter, we all have our talents. I bet he could still do Ok playing Ace Combat on the X box, with a little practice.
I doubt he could find the on switch much less handle the joy stick! LOL. Hell he probably thinks the CD drive on the Xbox is a coffee cup holder.

Anybody that can not use a computer or the internet now days is a lost cause IMHO. Makes me wonder if he even knows how to use a cell phone like the I-phone? :shiver:

How can we elect someone who is technology illiterate?

[Ecomike]

Thats all you got today MIKE? Mine i put up today is better, dam your getting slow..


PS MIKE, look at sig.. Change it today for you sir...

The O-man, Barack Hussein Obama, is an eloquently tailored empty suit. No resume, no accomplishments, no experience, no original ideas, no understanding of how the economy works, no understanding of how the world works, nothing but abstract empty rhetoric devoid of real substance.

Thanks Scott, I can always count on you to post the most intelligent, thought provoking, wise, insightfull, mind expanding, political BS and lies here. What would we do with out you?

[8Mud]

I doubt he could find the on switch much less handle the joy stick! LOL. Hell he probably thinks the CD drive on the Xbox is a coffee cup holder.

Anybody that can not use a computer or the internet now days is a lost cause IMHO. Makes me wonder if even knows how to use a cell phone like the I-phone? :shiver:

How can we elect someone who is technology illiterate?

Growing up with that stuff is much different than learning it's use. The technology evolves more quickly than most peoples ability to use it's full potential anyway.
There are only so many hours in the day.

[ECKSJAY]

Thanks Scott, I can always count on you to post the most intelligent, thought provoking, wise, insightfull, mind expanding, political BS and lies here. What would we do with out you?

Uh oh Mike...you've got competition. :firedevil

[scottmcneal]

Thanks Scott, I can always count on you to post the most intelligent, thought provoking, wise, insightfull, mind expanding. What would we do with out you?

Hey mike, anytime sir.. By the way, i fixed it for you.. So don't :twak: yourself over it.. We know you just want to have fun.. But you can't cause your glass is always half empty... LOL Have a great day mike :laugh3:

[red91]

How can we elect someone who is technology illiterate?


Pretty much the same way you believe everything you read on the inter-web.


:eyes:


This thread is worse than the Metallica one....

[techno1154]

I doubt he could find the on switch much less handle the joy stick! LOL. Hell he probably thinks the CD drive on the Xbox is a coffee cup holder.

Anybody that can not use a computer or the internet now days is a lost cause IMHO. Makes me wonder if he even knows how to use a cell phone like the I-phone? :shiver:

How can we elect someone who is technology illiterate?

That is so bad;...so yesteryear;...so illiterate of McCain. Cannot use an I-phone. Could someone volunteer to teach him? Pretty, pretty please?

I am a cellular technician and have worked exclusively in cellular since 1986. I still have problem using an outdated and replaced phone. I an unable to learn to do so. I can make a call on it, receive a call on it and sometimes store numbers to use at a later date.

Oh wait a minute! My job is not to be the user of new techlogies. I simply make it possible for the geek out there to use new techlogies. I design, build and repair the network for other people to use.

I cannot tell you how many peaple I have told I work in the cellular industry only to be asked to help them/show them how to use their phone. My reply is always truthfully the same. I do not know how to do it. Give me a computer and I could make the network allow you to do all those wonderful things the carrier advertizes; well except AT&T with the I-phone.

It will be nice if he could use a computer to do basic stuff. But if he can't I will still vote for him.

[Ecomike]

I wonder how McCain casts his vote these days if he can't use a computer!
:laugh3:

[scottmcneal]

I wonder how McCain casts his vote these days if he can't use a computer!
:laugh3:


I'm thinking hanging chad here mike :dunno: .. Have a nice dayparty1:

[Ecomike]

I'm thinking hanging chad here mike :dunno: .. Have a nice dayparty1:

:clap:Good one, but :shhh:, don't want to give away any national secrets!

I was just tinking about the old saying about not being able to teach an old dog new tricks!!!!1

[Goatman]

Anybody that can not use a computer or the internet now days is a lost cause IMHO. Makes me wonder if he even knows how to use a cell phone like the I-phone? :shiver:

How can we elect someone who is technology illiterate?

Your shittin' us, right?

I thought this was about someone to lead our country? Someone who can think for themselves, is knowledgeable and experienced with wisdom and common sense, understands the important issues and isn't afraid to go against popular opinion. But you think knowing how to use Word, Excell, an iPhone, and surf the web is one of the important qualities? Excuse me, but what a dumbass. You know, the Internet is mostly entertainment, and is good for getting news and research. If you don't have time for this lind of enterrtainment, and you get your news other ways, and you have staff to do research for you, why the fawk do you need a computer? Then it comes down to personal choice and the best use of your time......something that I seriously doubt you have room to criticize Mr McCain.

Damn, you're showing how shallow you are on political issues. The stuff that you're posting here shows what you think important issues are, and they are exceptionally shallow on your part. Rather than doing blatantly biased negative campaigning against your candidates opponant, why don't you shed some of your wisdom on some serious issues?

[red91]

C'mon Richard don't act so surprised.

[fscrig75]

He is going to be the President, how much do you think he will really be using the computer?
Maybe there is a brief from somewhere else that he will be getting, I bet he has an aide that sets the system up.
I would assume that most of the briefings are done with hard copies.
And honestly I can't find any pictures of the Oval office with a computer on the desk.

[Steve_Moore]

I'm sure Obama knows how to use one so he can keep in contact with his real people. He will know about the attacks before anyone else, he just won't care. :twak:

[DeftwillP]

This is basically a sad attempt at trolling.

[NW-ZJ-SCOTT]

he cant hold his XXXXing hands over his head. he's older then dirt. he cant use a computer, but the biggest reason he will fail? REPUBLICAN.

[red91]

he cant hold his XXXXing hands over his head. he's older then dirt. he cant use a computer, but the biggest reason he will fail? REPUBLICAN.

He's a military Veteran. He was held captive and tortured for 5.5 years.

Wonder WHY he can't hold his hand over his head?

At least he served our country in an honorable fashion. Mr. Obama cant even hold his hand over his heart during the national anthem.

Better an old patriot than someone who has NO honor, or respect for this country.

[DrMoab]

he cant hold his XXXXing hands over his head.
At least he can hold his hand over his heart.

[FlexdXJ]

I doubt he could find the on switch much less handle the joy stick! LOL. Hell he probably thinks the CD drive on the Xbox is a coffee cup holder.

Anybody that can not use a computer or the internet now days is a lost cause IMHO. Makes me wonder if he even knows how to use a cell phone like the I-phone? :shiver:

How can we elect someone who is technology illiterate?

What an idiot! :looser:

[souske]

he cant hold his XXXXing hands over his head. he's older then dirt. he cant use a computer, but the biggest reason he will fail? REPUBLICAN.

try reading your avatar before you post please:banghead:

[Bent]

I'm sure Obama knows how to use one so he can keep in contact with his real people. He will know about the attacks before anyone else, he just won't care. :twak:
Black wave?

[Ecomike]

Your shittin' us, right?

I thought this was about someone to lead our country? Someone who can think for themselves, is knowledgeable and experienced with wisdom and common sense, understands the important issues and isn't afraid to go against popular opinion. But you think knowing how to use Word, Excell, an iPhone, and surf the web is one of the important qualities? Excuse me, but what a dumbass. You know, the Internet is mostly entertainment, and is good for getting news and research. If you don't have time for this lind of enterrtainment, and you get your news other ways, and you have staff to do research for you, why the fawk do you need a computer? Then it comes down to personal choice and the best use of your time......something that I seriously doubt you have room to criticize Mr McCain.

Damn, you're showing how shallow you are on political issues. The stuff that you're posting here shows what you think important issues are, and they are exceptionally shallow on your part. Rather than doing blatantly biased negative campaigning against your candidates opponant, why don't you shed some of your wisdom on some serious issues?

Yes it is about someone to lead our country. OK, maybe this was a little bit of a cheap shot, but not near as cheap as the stuff others have been posting about Obama here, which is what finaly got me a bit rilled up enough to start this thread. At least what I posted was true, something that McCain admited to.

I have tried to keep my discusion and debate on the up and up for several weeks, but I finally secumed to the tossing of mud after so many others have chosen to to toss mud here aimed at democrats and Obama. I just figured it was fair play, but it seems I am outnumbered here about 7 to 1, so perhaps fair play does not apply to me. But I still think my point was at least a small valid point, at least as good as some of the garbage thrown at Obama here lately.

... in that we are now a heavily interconected electronic world where most people can at least turn on a computer and browse the news and read and send their own emails it just bothered me that McCain admited that he did not know how to use a computer. Yes McCain can function just fine as President with out being able to turn on and use a computer, but doesn't the fact that he has never tried to learn how to use one of today's grade school level computers say something about the man? I don't know maybe he just doesn't trust technology and computers. Perhaps that is Bill Gates fault! LOL.

I have no doub't he could learn how to use one in no time at all.

Oh and I take exception to the Dumbass name calling! It does neither of us any good. Oh, and while the internet may be mostly used for entertainment (as you pointed out) by others, I use it mostly for business, which is perhaps why I have a different perspective on it.

So, yes, in conclusion, not being computer literate is not going to be a crippling problem for McCain if he becomes president.

[Ecomike]

He's a military Veteran. He was held captive and tortured for 5.5 years.

Wonder WHY he can't hold his hand over his head?

At least he served our country in an honorable fashion. Mr. Obama cant even hold his hand over his heart during the national anthem.

Better an old patriot than someone who has NO honor, or respect for this country.

Do you really believe Obama has no honor or respect for his country?

I find them both to be commited, honorable (at least as honorable as any lifetime politian can claim to be, :D LOL) men with plenty of respect for their country.

[red91]

I am outnumbered here about 7 to 1, so perhaps fair play does not apply to me. You and I both know that it applies to everyone, out numbered or not.

it just bothered me that McCain admited that he did not know how to use a computer, but doesn't the fact that he has never tried to learn how to use one of today's grade school level computers say something about the man?


Alright let's approach this issue. Whether he can use one or not...I got $20.00 that says he can read, write, use proper English, and SPELL without the help of spell check, as well as make basic change for a five dollar bill. How many of our children can do the same thing? The education system needs more hands on teaching and not computer teaching. I'd rather he work with the education system as opposed to learning how to run shitty microsoft programs. When the kids in the local 5 and dime still can't give proper change even when the register tells them EXACTLY how much to give back...what does that say about education in America?





So, yes, in conclusion, not being computer literate is not going to be a crippling problem for McCain if he becomes president.

Good concession.








Over and out.

[red91]

Do you really believe Obama has no honor or respect for his country?

I find them both to be commited, honorable (at least as honorable as any lifetime politian can claim to be, :D LOL) men with plenty of respect for their country.


Yes I do. Simply holding your hand over your heart in public, whether he likes to or not,is a sign of respect to the country he wants to lead.

As commander in chief of our armed forces I would suspect as well that he will not salute back when saluted to. But I'd hazard a guess that he would bust someones rank if they didn't show him the proper respect.


Our military men and women deserve a leader that respects our flag, country and citizens.

And I don't think he can bring that to the table by the prior actions he has shown.

[Bent]

Do you really believe Obama has no honor or respect for his country?

No he doesn't and yes I do! Wait and see.

[XJEEPER]

I just figured it was fair play, but it seems I am outnumbered here about 7 to 1, so perhaps fair play does not apply to me.


Perhaps you know of a government assistance program will help keep the "game" PC for you, since you feel so outnumbered? That way you won't feel like a looser and have more reasons to blame everything bad on the evil Republicans and credit anything good to the Democrats........

BTW, my Grandpa has had skin cancer removed several times, is 93 yrs old and still lives at home and takes care of himself.

Are you saying that old people are not qualified to hold leadership positions, simply because of age? The same age that has allowed them to gain years of wisdom and experience? Seems like every job I've every had, there was a pre-requisite of experience. For those that I applied for and didn't get......I should blame it on the President I guess, as long as I didn't vote for him...............time to man up, Mike.

[scottmcneal]

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii318/phaeton05/obama-no-patriot.jpg


Does he or does he not?

[red91]

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii318/phaeton05/obama-no-patriot.jpg


Does he or does he not?

Disrespect at it's finest.

[Goatman]

OK, Ecomike, I'll apoligize for the name calling. Not my normal habit. I understand reacting to the negative comments about Obama. I guess I'd rather hear you make a negative reference to McCain, where we know where your coming from, than representing that you really think computer use or some of the other things you've posted are real issues.

It does seriously bother me that there are pics floating around that Obama didn't put his hand over his heart when addressing the flag or National Anthem. Why? Has anyone heard an explanation for this?

At face value I like Obama. I like that he has motivated people about making our country better, about giving people vision and renewed interest and hope about our government. Real or percieved, those are good things in my view. Unfortunately, while he's a good spearker, and might be a good leader, he hasn't done much other than talk. He also had come up through the ranks of the party by sticking to the party line......not bucking the system, not showing any of the tendancy for change that he talks so fluently about. I also don't like how he blatently throws around skewed statistics, but that's pretty much like all politicians do. Also, unfortunately, he's just on the wrong side of too many issues that are important to me, so I won't vote for him. We like to talk about voting for the person, but most of us really vote for the issues.

I could care less about Democrat or Republican, or the terms liberal or conservative. It just works out that the positions I hold are more generally represented by Republicans and conservatives. Actually, in this forum, for as much time as we have to give to it, it would be interesting to discuss issues than it would be to banter back and forth about candidates.

:cheers:

[NW-ZJ-SCOTT]

No one has learned a damn lesson on voting for a useless republican.

This country has gone to shit in the last 8 years. how many times are you ignorant people going to shoot yourself in the foot!

(Go ahead and flame on. Mccain has already lost.. )

[Deadman 94 xj]

No one has learned a damn lesson on voting for a useless republican.

Useless ? Please explain :confused:


( Mccain has already lost.. )

:huh:

[8Mud]

No one has learned a damn lesson on voting for a useless republican.

This country has gone to shit in the last 8 years. how many times are you ignorant people going to shoot yourself in the foot!

(Go ahead and flame on. Mccain has already lost.. )

I've seen ot worse and I've seen it better. Much of it is just bad press. Do some serious reading, some of the the most popular and revered Presidents have really stepped on their cranks.

[Darky]

No one has learned a damn lesson on voting for a useless republican.

This country has gone to shit in the last 8 years. how many times are you ignorant people going to shoot yourself in the foot!

(Go ahead and flame on. Mccain has already lost.. )
I just like how you automatically assume that you're right and all others are ignorant...Great way to represent your party

[buschwhaked]

I just like how you automatically assume that you're right and all others are ignorant...Great way to represent your party

Same goes for Republicans here as well...

[Ecomike]

No one has learned a damn lesson on voting for a useless republican.

This country has gone to shit in the last 8 years. how many times are you ignorant people going to shoot yourself in the foot!

(Go ahead and flame on. Mccain has already lost.. )

I don't think they are ignorant, just hard headed! :twak:

One thing I have learned about politics and elections, is it is just like baseball, It ain't over tell the FAT Lady sings! Or as in 2000, the US Supreme court decides where it's loyalties lay.

Their is plenty of time for either candidate to screw up and loose the election.

[Ecomike]

Same goes for Republicans here as well...

But aren't they always right?:laugh3: After all it's the Republican way!





OK, in all fairness, both sides their hard heads.

[Ecomike]

OK, Ecomike, I'll apoligize for the name calling. Not my normal habit. I understand reacting to the negative comments about Obama. I guess I'd rather hear you make a negative reference to McCain, where we know where your coming from, than representing that you really think computer use or some of the other things you've posted are real issues.

It does seriously bother me that there are pics floating around that Obama didn't put his hand over his heart when addressing the flag or National Anthem. Why? Has anyone heard an explanation for this?

At face value I like Obama. I like that he has motivated people about making our country better, about giving people vision and renewed interest and hope about our government. Real or percieved, those are good things in my view. Unfortunately, while he's a good spearker, and might be a good leader, he hasn't done much other than talk. He also had come up through the ranks of the party by sticking to the party line......not bucking the system, not showing any of the tendancy for change that he talks so fluently about. I also don't like how he blatently throws around skewed statistics, but that's pretty much like all politicians do. Also, unfortunately, he's just on the wrong side of too many issues that are important to me, so I won't vote for him. We like to talk about voting for the person, but most of us really vote for the issues.

I could care less about Democrat or Republican, or the terms liberal or conservative. It just works out that the positions I hold are more generally represented by Republicans and conservatives. Actually, in this forum, for as much time as we have to give to it, it would be interesting to discuss issues than it would be to banter back and forth about candidates.

:cheers:

What bothers me about the pictures most is that americans are fickle enough to elect someone based just on those pictures, issues be damed.

I agree with what your saying above, but the major national elections usualy seem to take controversial candidates and controversial issues to get more than .1% of the US population involved in discussing or becoming familiar with the issues, other wise it is usually just a beauty contest.

Oh, and speaking of beauty contests I think Palin has them all beat. I just don't think her good looks are going to much for her when she faces Putin.

[JohnJohn]

So he can't download porn. I'll let it slide.

[Ecomike]

So he can't download porn. I'll let it slide.

Correct, he will need some help with those downloads, LOL.

Hope that "slide" comment wasn't intended as porn pun. LOL.:D

[JohnJohn]

Correct, he will need some help with those downloads, LOL.

Hope that "slide" comment wasn't intended as porn pun. LOL.:D

You and Boatwrench didn't even comment on my Pfizer/Viagra reference in the other thread. You guys should have linked that together with McCain's age...you libs are slipping. :D

[Goatman]

No one has learned a damn lesson on voting for a useless republican.

This country has gone to shit in the last 8 years. how many times are you ignorant people going to shoot yourself in the foot!

(Go ahead and flame on. Mccain has already lost.. )

Yes, the President is responsible for everything. Congress doesn't matter, the courts don't matter, the appointed heads of all the various government departments don't matter, the Fed doesn't matter, the EPA doesn't matter, the state governers don't matter, the world oil market doesn't matter.

This is the silliest comment in this thread by far. Yes, we've had partisan comments, but most have at least some reasoning behind them.

If you talk about how we are compared to 8 years ago, what real criteria are you using? The economy is down, certainly, but only recently, and no president could have stalled off what is happening. We have been in a tremendously long uphill economic swing, it has to go down sometime, and who's ever watch it's on will take the heat. We've really had a tremendous run of prosperity, even though the markets are down now, housing, the stock market, and the economy are way up from what they were 8 years ago. It's really pretty amazing that as tough a time as many of us are having, the GNP has not yet slipped into recession territory and unemplyoyment has not taken a big jump.

So, what exactly has gone to shit?

[JohnJohn]

So, what exactly has gone to shit?

The three major TV networks and virtually every newspaper. The only thing bad about this economy is the outlook. I really amazed how many people believe what they hear and don't think for themselves.

This is all from an unemployed financial sales rep. I have never had more money in the bank than right now. 2007 was a great year. 2008 has been even better, and I got laid off in March. WTF?

[Steve_Moore]

The three major TV networks and virtually every newspaper. The only thing bad about this economy is the outlook. I really amazed how many people believe what they hear and don't think for themselves.

This is all from an unemployed financial sales rep. I have never had more money in the bank than right now. 2007 was a great year. 2008 has been even better, and I got laid off in March. WTF?
Yea, WTF? :bs:


I make 3 grand a month and I'm freakin' broke! :(

[GSequoia]

2007 was a great year. 2008 has been even better, and I got laid off in March. WTF?

It's not laid off when your boss catches you at animalsex.com.

[JohnJohn]

It's not laid off when your boss catches you at animalsex.com.

according to The Unemployment Agency it is. kidding I don't draw

[Bent]

One thing I have learned about politics and elections, is it is just like baseball, It ain't over tell the FAT Lady sings! Or as in 2000, the US Supreme court decides where it's loyalties lay.



Still full of shit I see. What I would like to know, though; how did Katrina miss you?

[XJEEPER]

Oh, and speaking of beauty contests I think Palin has them all beat. I just don't think her good looks are going to much for her when she faces Putin.

Did you catch her tonight? Don't think she's the "fraidy cat" type........

[Ecomike]

Did you catch her tonight? Don't think she's the "fraidy cat" type........

Yah, she is a real baracuda for sure, but you kinda missed my point. I wasn't saying she would be afraid of Putin, I was questioning if Putin would be afraid of her. I wonder if he would take her seriously, before she nuked him for bad manners that is.

[XJEEPER]

Which do you think is a bigger deterent to Putin's aggression in the region, McCain/Palin's "back off Jack!" approach, or the Obama/Biden's "can't we just cuddle and talk about this?" strategy?

Putin is a thug, trained by the KGB. I'll betcha he's whacked guys like Obama during breakfast, without spilling 1 Fruit-Loop....... If he fears the US and it's leaders being willing to stand up to him, there will be respect.

Obama is the candidate of choice by our enemies......do the math.

[Ecomike]

Which do you think is a bigger deterent to Putin's aggression in the region, McCain/Palin's "back off Jack!" approach, or the Obama/Biden's "can't we just cuddle and talk about this?" strategy?

Putin is a thug, trained by the KGB. I'll betcha he's whacked guys like Obama during breakfast, without spilling 1 Fruit-Loop....... If he fears the US and it's leaders being willing to stand up to him, there will be respect.

Obama is the candidate of choice by our enemies......do the math.
That is the 1 trillion dollar question. IN spite of Putin's past, I suspect Russia's recent aggression is at least in part (there are other issues) due to our recent NATO aggresion of swallowing up Eastern Europe and our denial of NATO membership to Russia. We, Bush senior for sure (and posibly Reagan just before he left office, need to look up the exact timeline) made hard promises to the Soviet Union that when Russia withdrew from Eastern Europe that we would not suck Eastern Europe into NATO, and they would only merge Eastern Germany into Western Germany, and thus into NATO. Bush Jr, threw that deal out the door with his beligerant attitude the last 8 years and pissed off the Russians.

Perhaps Mud8 can fill in the blanks since he has as does live there, Germany.

I think we already discussed this issue in detail in the Georgia thread a few weks ago.

[Darky]

Same goes for Republicans here as well...
That argument is bull. "I only do it because they do it..." Think for yourself. This goes for you to a certain extent as well Mike. Saying that you only stooped to this level because nobody else kept above it just says that your morals are no better than the people you claim are ignorant/mudslingers/whatever. You just use other's behavior as an excuse. If you don't want to see flimsy arguments tossed out, don't toss them out yourself. That's one less person making stupid arguments.
I do agree though that calling Obama Osama is dumb. Trying to push information that isn't necessarily verified as true doesn't make sense either. Especially when the candidate has so many areas to poke fun at/mock ;)

[Darky]

That is the 1 trillion dollar question. IN spite of Putin's past, I suspect Russia's recent aggression is at least in part (there are other issues) due to our recent NATO aggresion of swallowing up Eastern Europe and our denial of NATO membership to Russia. We, Bush senior for sure (and posibly Reagan just before he left office, need to look up the exact timeline) made hard promises to the Soviet Union that when Russia withdrew from Eastern Europe that we would not suck Eastern Europe into NATO, and they would only merge Eastern Germany into Western Germany, and thus into NATO. Bush Jr, threw that deal out the door with his beligerant attitude the last 8 years and pissed off the Russians.

Perhaps Mud8 can fill in the blanks since he has as does live there, Germany.

I think we already discussed this issue in detail in the Georgia thread a few weks ago.
If the country is begging us to let them because they're afraid of Russia, how is that NATO aggression? Georgia wants in, Russia said no way, not gonna happen. Since when did Russia have the ability to dictate the foreign policy of a sovereign nation, not involved in being a threat to the region?

[fscrig75]

That is the 1 trillion dollar question. IN spite of Putin's past, I suspect Russia's recent aggression is at least in part (there are other issues) due to our recent NATO aggresion of swallowing up Eastern Europe and our denial of NATO membership to Russia. We, Bush senior for sure (and posibly Reagan just before he left office, need to look up the exact timeline) made hard promises to the Soviet Union that when Russia withdrew from Eastern Europe that we would not suck Eastern Europe into NATO, and they would only merge Eastern Germany into Western Germany, and thus into NATO. Bush Jr, threw that deal out the door with his beligerant attitude the last 8 years and pissed off the Russians.

Here is a quote about the eastern expansion, both sides say different things.

The scholar Stephen F. Cohen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_F._Cohen) argued in 2005 that a commitment was given that NATO would never expand further east,[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO#cite_note-13) but according to Robert B. Zoellick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_B._Zoellick), then a State Department (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Department) official involved in the Two Plus Four negotiating process, this appears to be a misperception; no formal commitment of the sort was made.[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO#cite_note-14) On May 7, 2008, The Daily Telegraph (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Daily_Telegraph) held an interview with Gorbachev in which he repeated his view that such a commitment had been made. Gorbachev said "the Americans promised that NATO wouldn't move beyond the boundaries of Germany after the Cold War but now half of central and eastern Europe are members, so what happened to their promises? It shows they cannot be trusted

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO

Blaming Bush for the eastern expansion of NATO is a little far fetched. There is only 1 American on the cousel, the rest are mainly European, and a Canadian. There has never been an American Secretary General of NATO since it was created, though that might have something to do with our Generals always controling the military portion.

Regardless, Bush does not control who does or does not join NATO. Countries, they must be European, apply. They are then given a MAP of steps they must complete, and completetion does not garentee membership. After those steps I can't find anything else, ha ha.
http://www.nato.int/issues/map/index.html
http://www.ehow.com/how_2158768_become-member-nato.html

Now put your hatred of Bush aside and think how these tiny countries think and feel. They have Russia sitting right on their border, this new country has very little military to protect themselves from the Russian bear. They have lived under Soviet control for a good portion of their lives and are worried about that happening again. If I was running one of those countries I'd be begging to join NATO. If Georgia would've been a NATO member, then Russia wouldn't have been just attacking Georgia they would've been attacking NATO.

I bet if you were living in Georgia you would be in love Bush and praying everynight that your country gets into NATO.

[Ecomike]

If the country is begging us to let them because they're afraid of Russia, how is that NATO aggression? Georgia wants in, Russia said no way, not gonna happen. Since when did Russia have the ability to dictate the foreign policy of a sovereign nation, not involved in being a threat to the region?


Cuba.....Turkey.....nuclear missles....Cuban Missle crisis.

[Jump This]

So? :dunno: He's old, most old people are computer illiterate.


hEY FAWK YOU!!

:D


(someone find me a geezer smilie)

[Darky]

Cuba.....Turkey.....nuclear missles....Cuban Missle crisis.
I'm sorry but I don't base my sense of right and wrong on what some crazy guy with aspirations on expanding his power tells me is right or wrong.