Tie Rod replacement

[Kejtar]

Ok... so I replaced the rubber boot/sleeve thingies (one of mine was torn and I figured I might as well do both) and I redid the zerk (I knocked off the zerk last time I went wheeling and had to rethread and get the zerk in). Anyways...... it turns out that the damn thing fell out as I was greasing it :( So I'm saying... hell with it... I'll replace the damn thing.

So.... what should I use? I'm sitting at about 3.5" up front right now, and I'm planning to go up to maybe 4.5" ~5" by the end of the year (so the rest of the goodies will be worked on/replaced as things progress)..... thus... what are my options? I want something that will not need to be replaced as I go the extra 1" to 1.5"....

Kejtar

[96Classic]

Check out Goferitoffroad's Tie rod. That thing is super beefy. I am at 4.5 now an plan on going to 6.5 with it.

[tony597fitter]

I just went to napa on Thurs. for ball joints and tie rod ends and sleeves. Came out to just under $200 bucks for the tie-rod stuff alone! I told them they could keep all of it! When I got home I went on Rustys and he has the steering conversion kit for $204. So I ordered it, put it on yesterday and it is one nice unit. Heavy steel rods heavy tie rods that are just regular replacments at any auto parts store and it has a nice black powdercoating on it. I would recommend it to anyone.

[family XJ]

Tony did you replace it just to replace or was it out of necessity. I was looking into that same setup and was wondering if it helped with any shakes in the front. I like it cause it eliminates the toe issue when you go taller and also the bump steer issue. How hard was it to adjust? Thanks Doug

[bgcntry72]

Rusty's setup is crap.
Unless you are going to shell out for a true over-the-knuckle conversion, just get a HD unit from JKS for $100 and some now TREs from NAPA.
My $1.37.

[family XJ]

Don't just call it crap, please elaborate so I have an understanding why it is crap. All advice on this is appreciated.

[tony597fitter]

Here we go another Rusty hater. At least he stands behind his stuff and doesnt give you a run around like other manufacturers. I didnt think it was crap. I have seen some others and what I liked about Rustys is there are no sleeves. It is one solid unit. It isnt hard to adjust at all (in fact the alignment guys said it was one of the nicest setups they seen on a lifted vehicle, only took them about 20 mins. to align) there is only the two adjustment, you have the long bar and the draglink bar thats it. It is still cheaper than going to Napa or Carquest for all the components. I couldnt tell you if that was the one thing that got rid of wheel shake, I also did ball joints, lower control arms, steering box brace, adjustable trackbar with bracket, alignment and balanced tires. It drives like new now no shakes no spine crunchers when hitting bumps, Its smooth. I just went on the JKS site and you want to talk about CRAP thats what that is, it only replaces the left side rod, you still have to buy all the sleeves and tie-rod ends, if you want it done RIGHT. Oh yeah and you still have to paint it, if I was to buy that I would paint it shit brown because thats what it is, shit. Here are prices for Quality MOOG tie-rod ends and sleeves from napa :right inner $49.99 left inner $48.16 Left outer $49.98 and Right outer $142.24 Carquest for the MOOG stuff was a few bucks cheaper. You figure ou the math $204 for RUSTYS complete or just under $300.00 for stock. If you want some pics. I could e-mail them to you familyxj.

[bgcntry72]

Nice rant.
I've seen that steering setup, installed it, and taken it off 2 weeks later, on two seperate jeeps.
Still, nice rant.
Shit brown.........thats great.........good stuff.
:clap:

[Kejtar]

bgcntry.... I think familyXJ is asking for more of an explanation about why you have pulled it and why "it's crap". Now with all this hubbub about it... I'm kind of curious myself as to the details :D So care to elaborate?

Kejtar

[Matt99XJ]

I have never run it but there is a write-up on Jeepin.com. He took his off also cause he didn't like it.

[bgcntry72]

All the Rusty's setup essentially does is change the pivot locations and lengths of the drag link and tie rod. It looks like an over the knuckle, but it is in front of the axle, and under the knuckle, just like the stock setup, and provides no other benefits other than being a bit thicker. Look into an over-the-knuckle kit and get those components out of the way. The weak link in the XJ steering system is the operating angles of the drag link and tie rod. This kit does nothing to address that. The only fix is to raise the linkages and decrease the operating angles of the tie rod and drag link. This can be equated to the weak-link slip yoke on the xfer case. There are several ways to mask the problem and its resulting wear, but the only true resolution is a SYE. Much the same, an over the knuckle kit is the only way to steer a seriously lifted XJ. HTH

BTW, congrats on the axle score.

[Kejtar]

thanks :D

[Ladeback XJ]

Rusty does sell an over-the- nuckle replacement for $490.00. As he recomends on his site NOTE:
THIS SYSTEM IS NOT BOLTON AND ONLY A PROFESSIONAL MECHANICOR FABRICATOR SHOULD INSTALL WELDING AND MACHINING IS REQUIRED.

Not everything will put on you XJ is going to work. What matters most is it has fixed his problem. If you are over 6" of lift I would with over-the-knuckle steering. I am thinking of going to 6"+ and Rusty's over-the-knuckle set up.

[SV1CEC]

Gentlemen,

I am no steering expert, but I have basic mechanical comprehension, so I would appreciate you answering some questions on this topic.

I tend to agree with you that the standard XJ steering setup leaves something to be desired.

However, all over-the-knuckle setups I've seen have some problems, as well. For example they bind at the passenger's side sway bar lower mount. Running without a front sway bar is not an option for me.

So, apart from the OEM setup, what would you guys recommend, for an improved steering system, which does not causes more problems than it solves?

Rgds

[ChuckD]

Well SV1CEC, you remember ZPD's, It's like Rusty's under the knuckle but it's an inverted T as to the OEM inverted Y. The Inverted T does have its advantages even if it is under the knuckle. With the inverted Y, every time you hit a bump your toe changes, and this is more prevalent when you have bad angles at +4" of lift.

There are a number of different steering manufactures out there, most of them have kits in the $300 range. You can put an over the knuckle kit together yourself just over $200. You have to reem your knuckles or replace them with either, D44 knuchkles(Huge Job) or WJ knuckles (Gives you a larger rotor and caliper). Down East offroad also offers replacement knuckles. There is many ways to fix your steering, but if you really want it done right then your looking at the $500 range.

[ChuckD]

As far as the swaybar mounts, Orgs has new brackets that you weld on. It raises them out of the way. I know some run without swaybars, but there too lazy to do it the right way.

[SV1CEC]

Originally posted by XJCHUCK72
Well SV1CEC, you remember ZPD's, It's like Rusty's under the knuckle but it's an inverted T as to the OEM inverted Y. The Inverted T does have its advantages even if it is under the knuckle. With the inverted Y, every time you hit a bump your toe changes, and this is more prevalent when you have bad angles at +4" of lift.

There are a number of different steering manufactures out there, most of them have kits in the $300 range. You can put an over the knuckle kit together yourself just over $200. You have to reem your knuckles or replace them with either, D44 knuchkles(Huge Job) or WJ knuckles (Gives you a larger rotor and caliper). Down East offroad also offers replacement knuckles. There is many ways to fix your steering, but if you really want it done right then your looking at the $500 range.

Chuck,

I am sorry, but my RAM chips in my head, aren't what they used to be some years ago. What is ZPD again?

As for solutions you describe (over-the-knuckle) it is easy for you to say so, since you (most probably) have ten junk yards in your neighborhood to get parts from. If I were to do something like that, I would have to pay DC the stupid money they are asking, which when totalled, I am sure would be more than I paid for my XJ.

One solution I find really interesting, is the one by Zion Dunn at http://www.xjworld.4wdriver.com/steering.htm

What I like about this setup, is that (a) it does not use the drag link (which DC thinks that it is made of gold), (b) all TREs and heim joints are replaceable, (c) it does not interfere with the sway bar mounts and (d) it is quite strong.

Not over-the-knuckle, but I think it is good enough for me.

Finally, I would appreciate if someone could provide me with a link, explaining the various steering systems, Inverted-T, inverted-Y etc.

Many thanks for your help.

Rgds

[ChuckD]

ZPD, is Zion P Dunn. He mention that you emailed him about making a steering setup for you. I understand your problem with the junkyard problem. Trust me, the WJ are not that easy to find. Down East Offraod and ORGS MFG have or are working on these types of knuckles to sell to the public. No need to search junkyards but it comes at a price.

The only problem with Zion's is that is does not address the angles, but he is at 6" and he says it has been working rather well. I feel this is to the inverted T.

[SV1CEC]

Originally posted by XJCHUCK72
ZPD, is Zion P Dunn. He mention that you emailed him about making a steering setup for you. I understand your problem with the junkyard problem. Trust me, the WJ are not that easy to find. Down East Offraod and ORGS MFG have or are working on these types of knuckles to sell to the public. No need to search junkyards but it comes at a price.

The only problem with Zion's is that is does not address the angles, but he is at 6" and he says it has been working rather well. I feel this is to the inverted T.

Hey Chuck, I told you about my RAM chips, didn't I?

Well, indeed, I was ready to get a steering setup from Zion, but some unfortunate incidents meant that the money had to be spend elsewhere. I still am looking at getting one of his systems, maybe if I get some money I expect from US in mid-August, I'll have him build that one for me.

Again, many thanks and rgds

[tony597fitter]

Well guys I just checked out the Jeepin.com article on RUSTYS steering conversion, and it is completely different than the one I got. The one I got is exactaly like the Dunn setup. Rustys must have made a few changes. He now has a straight tie rod that goes from knuckle to knuckle and a drag link from the pitman arm to a welded bar stock about 6"-8" from the pass. side tie rod that has another end bolted to it. I mean it is exactly the same as Dunns setup. I think Jeepin.com needs to do some updating on the article, that one was writin in Feb. of 1999, this is now 2003 its called technology. If anyone wants pics of the setup I could try to post them or e-mail them. I also havent had any understeer to speak of.

[bgcntry72]

Horsefeathers.

[SV1CEC]

Originally posted by tony597fitter
Well guys I just checked out the Jeepin.com article on RUSTYS steering conversion, and it is completely different than the one I got. The one I got is exactaly like the Dunn setup. Rustys must have made a few changes. He now has a straight tie rod that goes from knuckle to knuckle and a drag link from the pitman arm to a welded bar stock about 6"-8" from the pass. side tie rod that has another end bolted to it. I mean it is exactly the same as Dunns setup. I think Jeepin.com needs to do some updating on the article, that one was writin in Feb. of 1999, this is now 2003 its called technology. If anyone wants pics of the setup I could try to post them or e-mail them. I also havent had any understeer to speak of.

Although I wouldn't trust Rusty with my life (and steering is somewhat life-related), please post some pictures for us to see.

As for Jason, in order for him to do an update to this article, he has to buy the thing again. As far as I know, he is pretty satisfied with his current setup.

Rgds

[offroadman83]

His current setup isn't rustys setup however!:)