clifford header help single or dual outlet ASAP

I just got of the phone with Larry at Clifford. This guy I don't know what to say. I would like a second opinion, PLEASE! Anyway this guy is telling me all about their engine that put out 456 FTLB and is not stroked but rather bored .060. It has their fuel system, aluminum head, and blah blah blah. He had my head spinning he was talking so fast. The meat of this is he kept telling about the dual outlet header, he told me he would not sell me the single outlet even if that what I wanted! I can say he talked about heat being the cause of the stock and I quote "borla header" cracking, which I believe heat has something to do with.

He kept saying the dual outlets would increase the lowend torque by 20% or so. This goes against everything I have read and learned about exhaust. He told me that I'd have to have a Y pipe made and I asked about the pipe size from header to tail pipe. He said 1 5/8's was ideal and 2" was fine and 2.25" would lose about 5%, I guess torque.

What do you think about Larry? I want their header but really hate to call back and get Larry. He is a trip, of maybe it he's from Cal and I'm from Bama.
what do I do?

Please help
Thomas

well if you get dual outlet header you have to get a muffler shop to make you a collector pipe and new down pipe with an O2 fitting just to make it all work on your rig. i went thru the same thing just a while back and i ended up getting a gibson header and ive been happy with it. i dont think its worth your time. or money.

I am running the Clifford single output header on my 4.7L stroker and love it. Common opinion is that if you make the exhaust too free flowing, you actually loose low end torque. That is why lots of the guys stay with the Renix heads for crawlers. Yes, the Renix has the knock sensor, but the head design aids in low end torque and sacrifices top end.

I even have questions about needing headers on a crawler where most of the time you are below 1500 rpms.

I would definately not go with the dual outlet headers myself, but that is my opinion.

I'm sure DrDyno will add to this.

tompatjr said:

What do you think about Larry?

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I think Larry is an idiot. Let me guess...the dual outlet costs more? You have an inline 6 cylinder engine. Neither 6 cylinders, nor inline engines should have dual exhaust. It will NOT make 20% more torque. I can't believe anybody that works at Clifford would say something so absurd.

I think larry was in for a quick sale. I called or rather had someone call back to order a single outlet header for me. Didn't want to talk to Larry. Anyway come to find out the single outlet will take 30 days. I guess they are out of stock and not to concerned about the customer far as I could tell. I want what I want even if I wrong. If that makes since!

Larry also mentioned that the single would crack just like the OEM due to extreme heat.

Thinking about going Ebay, for a factory replacement.

Man, are these header(s) expensive! I just got off the phone with banks and I can get theirs for 429.00 shipped. I wish Clifford had the single outlet instock I would get theirs. Gibson is sky high at about 470.00 for the SS and 400.00 for the plated steel.

Looked so more. Can Get Banks for about 395.00 shipped.

What other choices do I have, and the trick...without breaking the bank?

Less than 100.00 is sounding mighty tempting on ebay.

I suggest you go with a factory replacement. The factory manifold is pretty good to start with...headers will only give you 10hp if you're lucky. That much can be gained much cheaper elsewhere...

Isn't an aftermarket like a Borla or Banks better to avoid future cracking? Don't they have a lifetime warranty against such things? I know I really only want to replace a cracked header once.

-Mike

Mike L said:

Isn't an aftermarket like a Borla or Banks better to avoid future cracking? Don't they have a lifetime warranty against such things? I know I really only want to replace a cracked header once.

-Mike

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The ones you can get on ebay for under $100 are stainless and include an expansion joint, making it much, much less likely to crack. I think everyone makes the cracked manifolds out to be alot bigger problem than it is...mine is cracked and I couldn't care less. There's certainly no reason I need to replace it.

Mike L said:

Isn't an aftermarket like a Borla or Banks better to avoid future cracking? Don't they have a lifetime warranty against such things? I know I really only want to replace a cracked header once.

-Mike

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Mike, to save you some time if your thinking about this. Thorley I called they said due to the heat of the jeep exhaust that it would fail over time. Please note however the rep said any jeep exhaust would do the same. I assume he ment Borla, Banks, Gibbson, Stock, Etc. I also called Clifford, got a crazy guy Larry or that was my opinion. He also said heat would eventually kill the header, a single outlet that is. He said the dual outlet would be okay because it would cause the Y pipe to fail, but the headers would be okay. I talked to Banks, the tech there said they designed their header to last and it's backed by a lifetime warranty. So I would say it comes down to how much you want to spend I thought the HP and torque gains would be welcome but money was my deciding factor.

I decided to go with one from Ebay for 123.95. They claim to honor a lifetime warranty on this manifold. So even if it only last a couple of years I could replace it several times before reaching the point of paying 400+ for a true header.

Hope this helps
Thomas

Based on actual personal experience...i wouldn't buy a secondhand bag of crap from Clifford...dang shame.....i bet Jack Clifford is spinning in his grave.

I had a clifford, it was junk. had good luck with a Borla and Mike Leach

The header i have has held up ok (CLifford)...but doesn't really match the tuning requirements for the rest of the components in the so called "engine kit"....when it croaks...i'm getting a Banks.

I am thinking of gettting the Banks to replace my cracked stocker. I was thinking of Boral since they make an intermediate pipe that goes from the header to the cat. Is this piece necessary? Anyone ever talk to Banks and find out why they don't make one for the XJ's or when they will? I beleive the only one they make is for the early YJ's. Thanks.

-Mike

Mike L said:

I am thinking of gettting the Banks to replace my cracked stocker. I was thinking of Boral since they make an intermediate pipe that goes from the header to the cat. Is this piece necessary? Anyone ever talk to Banks and find out why they don't make one for the XJ's or when they will? I beleive the only one they make is for the early YJ's. Thanks.

-Mike

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I talked with Banks before I bought mine. The intermediate or "torque tube" as banks calls it. Is not needed for the xj. The header connects up with the stock mounting. I bought it and have been very happy with it for 7 - 8 months now. Easy install, great fit, no leaks, no problems! Just having it fit made it worth the money. I have heard horror stories about other headers that dont fit properly.