Welding the front diff.

I am trying to get everything together for my gear swap, I don't have the cash for a front locker so I am thinking about welding it. I have an hp d44 in the front so I have manual hubs so I shouldn't notice it in 2wd right? This is my dd and I have to deal with snow so I use 4wd during the winter. Am I just asking for trouble with a detroit in the rear and a welded front, or will it be fine if I take it slow?

it works okay for wheelin, especially if most the stuff you do is loose (muddy not slickrock). You will break more shafts and the steering will be significantly worse.

for street driving in the snow, I say FORGET locking the front. if you can't do 2wd in the snow, then leave it open for sure.

I tried that.
Well not exactly what you described, but close.
Welding is not a good idea, ever!
It will break and ruin your gears and possibly your axle, shafts, and other handy items!
The money you saved by welding and not buing a locker will be nothing compared to the money it takes to buy a new ring and pinion, or axle shafts, ect....

Do your self and run open untill you can afford a locker, trust me, it is not cheaper!

Some people will say they ran welded for 50 years and never had a problem, blah blah blah.
It will break and cost you a wad of money!

Run open 'till you can get a locker!

:soapbox:

The trails I wheel are dirt and mud so no rocks, but I don't like the idea of going through axle componants. How bad is the steering? Would I basically have to shift to 2wd to turn?

seanR said:

Some people will say they ran welded for 50 years and never had a problem, blah blah blah.
It will break and cost you a wad of money!
:soapbox:

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im welded in the front, a few others in our group are welded up front. no problems at all. no breakage, no damage. :shhh:

in 2wd, you will not notice it at all. welded fronts like a big turning radius in 4wd though. no biggie, you just have to do a few 3 point turns on the trail...

but thats just my experience.

Mark

A locked front, welded, spooled or whatever, isn´t gonna turn worth a darn in most anything loose (in 4X). Muddy trails are gonna give you fits.
Sooner or later, your gonna get all the tires and the drivetrain spinning at a pretty good clip and then catch some good traction. Something has got to give, hopefully traction on two tires? Or maybe a driveshaft or an axle or the gears you welded together (and probably softened some with the heat).
Having said that. I´ve got a 60 rear, I welded about ten years ago, with an open front. Never had any problems, mechanicaly, stears like a bus (even in 2X) and has a tendancy to break rear wheel traction at odd times (dangerous if your not expecting it). When I get things wound up good and then catch traction, one of the open front (axles) tires spins, kind of like a safety valve and dumps the excess torque. Maybe not max traction, but definetaly a plus in longevity.
I personnaly prefer a mild front limited slip or open front. Of course most of my off road time is muddy/snowy/icy tractor trails, run at a pretty good clip.

CW said:

The trails I wheel are dirt and mud so no rocks, but I don't like the idea of going through axle componants. How bad is the steering? Would I basically have to shift to 2wd to turn?

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Take my advice CW, I have a HP44 up front and an 8.8 rear, The rear detroit and the front had a spool at one time, it SUCKED. kept snapping u joints which then snapped the outer ears of the outer shaft (hit the inner knuckles/etc..), not only that, but you woulnt be able to turn the wheel at a stand still, you would have to be moving constantly.... (ripped my steering box out LOL) If you cant do a locker right now, save the 200 bucks and get a lockright in a few months, Ive ran a lockright for a little while now and love it. I got a titanium crosspin/new springs/pins and it works great. Let me know if you need any more info. And if you REALLY REALLY want to spool/weld it, let me know I have a carrier that I'll get rid of cheap so you can try it out


-Red

CW said:

The trails I wheel are dirt and mud so no rocks, but I don't like the idea of going through axle componants. How bad is the steering? Would I basically have to shift to 2wd to turn?

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If you can't make a wide turn you would have to get out and unlock a hub. Welding or a spool will act almost (some difference can be seen) the same when the hubs are locked in, whether you are in 4x or not.

If you catch yourself thinking about it don't. If you like to drive with the throttle some don't.

I have friends that have been running welded fronts for years without problems, but I ran open for years to keep away from the driving problems. Even with a lockright in the front I'll only lock one hub on occasion so I don't have to deal with it.

I'm running a rear Detroit and front ARB. I only kick in the ARB when absolutely necessary because it's so hard on steering. I can't imagine running a front spool (which is what you'll have) full time, even on the trails much less the street.

Iam welded in the front and spooled in the rear and love it. Just don't put it in 4wd on the icy roads, you go nowhere fast. As for 4 wheeling just add hydro assist to your steering and you will never even know the the front is locked. Steering stays the same is it was on road. Sure you do break more parts so run the warm cromos in the front with a 760 u-joint and breaking will be less often. All you will be breaking is u-joint caps and if you fix it right when you hear it snap all you will be fixing is the cap not the cap lobs of the axle shafts. SPOOLS ARE COOL!

kid4lyf said:

I'm running a rear Detroit and front ARB. I only kick in the ARB when absolutely necessary because it's so hard on steering. I can't imagine running a front spool (which is what you'll have) full time, even on the trails much less the street.

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One time going through Gatekeeper (Rubicon) I accidentally had the front ARB locked (acting as a spool) and I kept wondering why my steering SUCKED so bad, I thought my steering pump went out, then I realized the ARB was locked.

beast said:

.....just add hydro assist to your steering and you will never even know the the front is locked. ..... Sure you do break more parts so run the warm cromos in the front with a 760 u-joint and breaking will be less often....All you will be breaking is u-joint caps....SPOOLS ARE COOL!

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ok, something is wrong here...

you add hydro steering, cromo shafts, upgradad u-joints all to break 'less'?

why dont you just get a locker which would be cheaper then all of that stuff and still be ok on the trail

beast said:

Iam welded in the front and spooled in the rear and love it. Just don't put it in 4wd on the icy roads, you go nowhere fast. As for 4 wheeling just add hydro assist to your steering and you will never even know the the front is locked. Steering stays the same is it was on road. Sure you do break more parts so run the warm cromos in the front with a 760 u-joint and breaking will be less often. All you will be breaking is u-joint caps and if you fix it right when you hear it snap all you will be fixing is the cap not the cap lobs of the axle shafts. SPOOLS ARE COOL!

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so you're saying weld the front, but then spend $200 on hydro assist, and $700 on shafts and joints?

why not spend $200 on a lockright and not have to spend money on hydro assist or bling shafts?



I sucked it up and plunked down the cash for an ARB because I figured if I went with anything else I would end up spending money on Chromo shafts, with the ARB I feel confident using stock shafts because I very rarely lock the ARB.

i think welding the front = bad plan on DD, and for the 100.00 price of a spool, juist charge it pay for it later and be able to remove it if you dont like it. Try driving a friends jeep with welded/spool and see if its right for you

-XJ_Ranger

A welded front without lockouts is NOT streetable AT ALL.
With lockouts it has NO affect in 2wd.

Lockrites suck. They brake usually after a year of wheelin.
Full carrier lockers like a detroit, ARB, or welded/Spool are the only reliable options.

If you weld up your spider gears to the carrier its free, if you later dont like your steering and have cash to buy a detroit, (it will replaced the carrier you distroyed when welding.) The facotry carriers are very low cost, what do you ahve to loose?

If you have after market gears and you suck at welding then your carrier will probibly blow chunks form your welds and brake your gears, but they are life time waranteed. Ive seen carrer bearing brake when lockrights explode thats not under warantee and neither are axle shafts.

Yes a spool over an open diff will brake more shafts, But with out a front locker your not even wheelin yet, your just 4 wheel driving :rainbow:

I did have to add hydro assits after spooling my front, but that was related to haveing leafs in front with no track bar.

Ive welded up 4 diffs on my cherokee over the years, d35, d70, d60front, and 14bolt none have failed, and 3 toyota third members.

One of the Toyota third rear ends on my friends rig (same size as a d44) snapped the pinnion, blew a lockright distroying the gears and carrier bearings, but has not broken the carrier I welded up or the stock toyota axles with 38s, and 4:1...

I wouldent weld a rear on a Daily driver (done it twice) unless your tires are already worn and you plan to buy a detroit with the new tires.

ashmanjeepxj said:

Lockrites suck. They brake usually after a year of wheelin.
...or welded/Spool are the only reliable options.

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agree wth ashman on most of what he said except for this ^

Ive had a lockright in mine for a while now and it hasnt exploded yet...but it might one of these days.

I just picked up a Track Lock for $170. So I guess I'm going with that. I can't wait till I get the 5.13's and lockers in.

I love this post........it's a classic. :doh:

beast said:

Iam welded in the front and spooled in the rear and love it.

Just don't put it in 4wd on the icy roads, you go nowhere fast.

As for 4 wheeling just add hydro assist to your steering and you will never even know the the front is locked.

Sure you do break more parts.........so run the warm cromos in the front with a 760 u-joint and breaking will be less often.

All you will be breaking is u-joint caps and if you fix it right when you hear it snap all you will be fixing is the cap not the cap lobs of the axle shafts.

SPOOLS ARE COOL!

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I don't know, I didn't think I was that different from other wheelers, but maybe I am. I've chosen to build it not to break. I like to wheel, not fix parts. I don't like holding up the rest of the group because I have to fix my junk on the trail. I don't like getting into camp late, or missing running that second trail that day because we had to stop and fix my broken rig.

Now, I'll live happily with whatever happens, but breaking should be the exception, not the rule.

Goatman said:

I love this post........it's a classic. :doh:




I don't know, I didn't think I was that different from other wheelers, but maybe I am. I've chosen to build it not to break. I like to wheel, not fix parts. I don't like holding up the rest of the group because I have to fix my junk on the trail. I don't like getting into camp late, or missing running that second trail that day because we had to stop and fix my broken rig.

Now, I'll live happily with whatever happens, but breaking should be the exception, not the rule.

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You did almost all of that in a single day.

Lincoln said:

You did almost all of that in a single day.

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That was one looooong ass day, wasn't it. Getting into camp at 4:45 am isn't exactly what you set out to do.......