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Simple locker question

88woody

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Maine
I have been reading the posts, and I still need one question answered.
I understand how the "lunchbox" lockers work. I know that when you take a turn, they disengage. The question I have: How MUCH of a turn? If I'm changing lanes will the disengage? What about a winding trail?
Are there lockers out there that perform better in this regard?
 
actually, they will disengage anytime you let off the gas (remove the torque). So, if you let off the gas as you are changing a lane, then yes, they will disengage, or if you let off on the winding trail. Now, if you stay on the gas (keep the torque applied) they will stay locked, just like a spool
 
You won't notice the lunchbox on the highway except when you downshift to pass, you may get some torque-steer. how much depends too many factors to get into here.

It won't unlock unless the outside tire on the turn needs to over-run the ring-gear, like in a parking lot, or turning corners.

IMHO Not even an issue on trail.
 
TRL WGN 1 said:
actually, they will disengage anytime you let off the gas (remove the torque). So, if you let off the gas as you are changing a lane, then yes, they will disengage

uhh I'm going to fully disagree here.... letting off the gas does not disengage them.
 
What locks these lockers up is the cross shaft trying to turn the locker. The cross shaft is driven by the carrier which is driven by the ring gear which is driven by the pinion which is driven by the driveline which is driven by the transfercase which is driven by the transmission which is driven by the engine which supplies torque when you give it gas. When you let off the gas the engine won't drive the transmission which won't drive the transfercase which won't drive the driveline which won't drive the pinion which won't drive the ring gear which won't drive the carrier which won't drive the cross shaft which will no longer be locking the locker.

Yes it does. I have 3 of them. :rof:
 
What happens if you are accelerating around a corner and the inside tire doesn't loose traction. Did you just apply torque and unlock your locker?
 
jkkj said:
What happens if you are accelerating around a corner and the inside tire doesn't loose traction. Did you just apply torque and unlock your locker?


Locker satys locked and you get some tire squeal. Or sometimes it disengages partly and then when going straight again, it engages again, and then you get the pop! Bang! "what was that" from your passenger. :D
 
Well sort of.........well sort of.

There is a difference between the locker disengaging and it locking up......slightly different functions, I mean. It will lock up when torque is applied, but not necessarily disengage when torque is not applied. It will disengage when turning, but not necessarily if torque is also applied. It will stay locked if you are going straight even if coasting (no power applied), and it can disengage when turning even if some power is applied.

The locker works by becoming a spool under power (locking up) and differentiating around corners (disengaging). Torque from the driveline will lock it up, but torque from the axle will disengage it. The locker disengages (differentiates) when an axle spins ahead of the carrier, so an axle can spin faster than the carrier, but not slower. What happens in a turn is that the outside tire spins ahead (locker disengages) and all the power goes to the inside tire. If power is applied smoothly and moderately you won't feel anything. If you give it enough power, and are in a tight turn, most likely taking off from a stop making a right hand turn, the inside tire will spin and chirp. This is caused both by the inside tire getting all the power and the weight transfering in the turn to the outside tire, letting the inside tire break loose. The chirp, chirp, chirp is from the inside tire catching up to the outside tire that was spinning ahead, then the outside tire spins ahead again and the inside tire breaks loose and catches up again, and again. If enough power is applied to lock up the locker, either the inside tire will just spin and howl (not chirp, chirp) or both tires will break loose.

The kick that is felt in the rear end when turning and shifting or when turning back and forth, like driving on a tight mountain road, is from the locker alternately switching sides as the inside tire switches from side to side. What you feel is one axle powering the rig, and that one axle is switching sides every time you change directions (inside axle always stays hooked up while outside axle spins ahead). Now, if you turn back and forth AND let on and off the gas, there are multiple switches in sides with the power from both the turns and accelerating and decelerating. The unique driving characteristics of an automatic locker actually come from it disengaging one side (differentiating) rather than from it locking up.

As far as when it will lock and when it will disengage, it depends on the traction and the power applied. If the torque appied from the faster spinning outside tire is more than from the driveline, it will disengage. If the torque from the driveline is more, then it will lock up. You can think of a locker as your ratcheting wrench and a socket. If you pull on the ratchet handle, the socket has to turn, but you can grab the socket and spin it ahead of the ratchet.......just like an automatic locker.

The annoying chattering of a lunchbox locker when making tight slow turns, like in a parking lot, is from there being slack in the drivetrain, and the locker can't decide which side to engage. If the smallest amount of power is applied in this situation it won't chatter, the inside will lock up and the outside spin free like it is supposed to. This tendancy is much greater in a stick than in an automatic, since the auto tends to keep more pressure on the drivetrain. The reason this tendancy doesn't happen in a full Detroit is because the side gear rides up on ramps when differentiating and so the gears are fully seperated while differentiating, while in a luchbox locker the side gear rides up and down on the bevel of the dog teeth while differentiating.

Hope this helps some have a better understanding of what makes a locker work.
 
Thanks for all the info!

I should be able to buy a locker in the next few months...
I'll keep you posted
 
I think I missed something, what is the difference between a 'lunchbox' and 'full' locker.... or better yet, what is a lunchbox locker and is that a derogatory term ??
 
Goatman said:
Well sort of.........well sort of.

There is a difference between the locker disengaging and it locking up......slightly different functions, I mean. It will lock up when torque is applied, but not necessarily disengage when torque is not applied. It will disengage when turning, but not necessarily if torque is also applied. It will stay locked if you are going straight even if coasting (no power applied), and it can disengage when turning even if some power is applied.

The locker works by becoming a spool under power (locking up) and differentiating around corners (disengaging). Torque from the driveline will lock it up, but torque from the axle will disengage it. The locker disengages (differentiates) when an axle spins ahead of the carrier, so an axle can spin faster than the carrier, but not slower. What happens in a turn is that the outside tire spins ahead (locker disengages) and all the power goes to the inside tire. If power is applied smoothly and moderately you won't feel anything. If you give it enough power, and are in a tight turn, most likely taking off from a stop making a right hand turn, the inside tire will spin and chirp. This is caused both by the inside tire getting all the power and the weight transfering in the turn to the outside tire, letting the inside tire break loose. The chirp, chirp, chirp is from the inside tire catching up to the outside tire that was spinning ahead, then the outside tire spins ahead again and the inside tire breaks loose and catches up again, and again. If enough power is applied to lock up the locker, either the inside tire will just spin and howl (not chirp, chirp) or both tires will break loose.

The kick that is felt in the rear end when turning and shifting or when turning back and forth, like driving on a tight mountain road, is from the locker alternately switching sides as the inside tire switches from side to side. What you feel is one axle powering the rig, and that one axle is switching sides every time you change directions (inside axle always stays hooked up while outside axle spins ahead). Now, if you turn back and forth AND let on and off the gas, there are multiple switches in sides with the power from both the turns and accelerating and decelerating. The unique driving characteristics of an automatic locker actually come from it disengaging one side (differentiating) rather than from it locking up.

As far as when it will lock and when it will disengage, it depends on the traction and the power applied. If the torque appied from the faster spinning outside tire is more than from the driveline, it will disengage. If the torque from the driveline is more, then it will lock up. You can think of a locker as your ratcheting wrench and a socket. If you pull on the ratchet handle, the socket has to turn, but you can grab the socket and spin it ahead of the ratchet.......just like an automatic locker.

The annoying chattering of a lunchbox locker when making tight slow turns, like in a parking lot, is from there being slack in the drivetrain, and the locker can't decide which side to engage. If the smallest amount of power is applied in this situation it won't chatter, the inside will lock up and the outside spin free like it is supposed to. This tendancy is much greater in a stick than in an automatic, since the auto tends to keep more pressure on the drivetrain. The reason this tendancy doesn't happen in a full Detroit is because the side gear rides up on ramps when differentiating and so the gears are fully seperated while differentiating, while in a luchbox locker the side gear rides up and down on the bevel of the dog teeth while differentiating.

Hope this helps some have a better understanding of what makes a locker work.

That's funny, my lockers use a switch? :huh: :D

CRASH
 
TRL WGN 1 said:
actually, they CAN disengage anytime you let off the gas (remove the torque). So, if you let off the gas as you are changing a lane, then yes, they will disengage, or if you let off on the winding trail. Now, if you stay on the gas (keep the torque applied) they will stay locked, just like a spool

here, fixed it. Anytime you don't apply torque, and the tires need to travel at different speeds, it will dissengage. If there is no torque applied, but the tires are both traveling at the same speed, the it will stay engaged.
That better?
 
TRL WGN 1 said:
here, fixed it. Anytime you don't apply torque, and the tires need to travel at different speeds, it will dissengage. If there is no torque applied, but the tires are both traveling at the same speed, the it will stay engaged.
That better?
Yup :D
 
CRASH said:
That's funny, my lockers use a switch? :huh: :D

CRASH

Hey, this is an automatic locker thread........go get your own thread going.

Our's don't need a switch because they work AUTOMATICALLY

:D
 
This thread AUTOMATICALLY sucks.

CRASH
 
ChuckD said:
I wish I had a switch, :(

I have switch ENVY! :D

Oh yeah? How about "hey, your front end isn't pulling, turn your locker on!" or "Hey, I have to stop and fix the air line to my ARB" or "How come your air compressor is running so often? Well, I have a bad seal in my front ARB." or What's wrong, how come your hood's up? Well, I have to change my ARB relay....solenoid...fitting came loose...etc." or "Well, I'll have to finish without my front locker since a fitting broke.....does anyone have a spare fitting?" or "what's that hissing sound? Oh, I have a leak in my ARB air line, must have hit something hot"

:D :D
 
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