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Can't decide on steering upgrade

X

xjrocks

NAXJA Forum User
Location
oklahoma
I'm having a tough time deciding on which way to go with my steering. I have 35's so I need to upgrade. First option is go with the PSC street/off-road kit.
Other option is Durango box with the wj pump. I take it off-road a few times a year. Off road I mean in rocks or trails. Where I live all the good stuff is 3 hours away. So with that I just can't decide if I really need to spend the extra money. I like to do things only once so that's why I'm leaning toward the PSC kit. Opinions? Thanks!
 
first thing is a cooler.

second thing is a large bore box. you will save yourself a million headaches by just getting a box from PSC and a pump from them. it will perform and everything will fit the first time.

you only need a ram if you wheel where you are putting a lot of force on the steering system. the point of a ram is not to give you more steering power, but to remove some of the steering forces from the frame area.

if you have limited money to spend, upgrade the pump and box and run a cooler. the OEM pump/box will not be able to keep up with a ram regardless.
 
The point of the ram IS to give you more steering power. There are many times in the rocks where you are physically unable to get the tires to turn. With hydro assist, you can turn. Removing forces from the frame is just a really beneficial side effect.
 
zachandandy said:
The point of the ram IS to give you more steering power. There are many times in the rocks where you are physically unable to get the tires to turn. With hydro assist, you can turn. Removing forces from the frame is just a really beneficial side effect.
Click to expand...

that is backwards.

most steering boxes have considerably more power than any ram. if you are so bound up that a large bore box cannot turn the tires, a ram is not going to help you. and you can make a box easier to turn simply by swapping the torsion bar out.

consider that the shaft size on a standard psc assist cylinder is 5/8" the OEM box has a piston 2.75", the PSC big bore (durango) is 3.25". since they both see the same pressure, you get a lot more force out of the box upgrade than you do by simply adding a ram.

and even if you only add a ram, you need to upgrade your pump to deal with the extra flow required.

the MAIN benefit to the ram is to save the frame/trackbar/sectorshaft from wearing out. a side benefit, is that it does give you some more steering power... but only about 1/4 of the power of the box and less than that in the shaft direciton.
 
Adding a ram helps a lot with steering. From experience, a ram got my 37s to steer out of tough spots that I was wedged in. Never had a situation I couldn't get out of with the ram. Now with only the psc box I was getting wedged all the time. I'm no small guy and there were times I couldn't get the box alone to get me out of spots without backing out. Yes a ram does save wear and tear on steering and unibody but that is not all it does.
 
I wouldn't trade my PSC assist setup for anything. I sent them my stock box and have them rebuild it with all the goodies (much much cheaper than buying a new box). I blew a line one time and had to run a whole weekend with no assist, it was terrible! I actually bent my WJ pitman arm doing that
 
One of my "stock modifications" I do on every vehicle I have ever owned is to add a power steering oil cooler if it does not come with one from the factory. It is of interest that Ford puts them on pretty much every truck they make and for good reason. As the fluid heats, the viscosity drops (thins out) which makes difficult to build the proper amount of pressure required.

Our PS pumps are not the best in the world and I have noticed that they tend to run a bit quieter when the fluid is cooled. IMO, a quiet pump is a happy pump...

The current PS cooler on my Heep is from a Ford F350. I think it cost $20 from my local pull and pay yard. I run solvent through the coolers I buy prior to installing them on my or anyone's rig to be sure that they are clean internally. I find that lacquer thinner works well for this and does not leave anything behind. Running the thinner through is also a good way to check for leaks. In my case, the cooler that is on there now is the second one as the first one leaked solvent during the cleaning process. Fortunately, the U Pull & Pay yard has a no questions exchange policy. The second one was perfect and so was installed.
 
foxwar71 said:
I wouldn't trade my PSC assist setup for anything. I sent them my stock box and have them rebuild it with all the goodies (much much cheaper than buying a new box).
Click to expand...

AFAIK they don't do that anymore because they can no longer get parts for the small bore box (jeep stopped making them)
 
whitexj98 said:
I'm on 35s and pretty content with the only mods being a cooler/ synthetic fluid/ and a Gen right overdrive pulley.

I also have frame plating a study bumper with tie in plates and a steering box brace.
Click to expand...

Is that the colored pulley with some kind of built in fan they sell? Did it make a difference?
 
rockclimber said:
that is backwards.

most steering boxes have considerably more power than any ram. if you are so bound up that a large bore box cannot turn the tires, a ram is not going to help you. and you can make a box easier to turn simply by swapping the torsion bar out.

consider that the shaft size on a standard psc assist cylinder is 5/8" the OEM box has a piston 2.75", the PSC big bore (durango) is 3.25". since they both see the same pressure, you get a lot more force out of the box upgrade than you do by simply adding a ram.

and even if you only add a ram, you need to upgrade your pump to deal with the extra flow required.

the MAIN benefit to the ram is to save the frame/trackbar/sectorshaft from wearing out. a side benefit, is that it does give you some more steering power... but only about 1/4 of the power of the box and less than that in the shaft direciton.
Click to expand...

I'd agree with zachandandy.

Comparing the steering box bore to a ram cylinder makes no sense. Sure the box bore may increase, but you are still using that power to push a set of gears, which rotates the pitman arm from the center.

The steering ram has a mechanical advantage by applying its force to the tie-rod or the steering arms on the knuckle. Uses the steering arms as a lever to multiply the torque.

Basically the only reason to have the steering box on there is to retain a mechanical link in case of ram or hydraulic failure. So yeah, it does take all the pressure off the steering box and frame.
 
I ran the same rig in the same rocks with and without ram assist with 42" iroks on a 6000lb wagoneer. I guarantee that sitting still with a rock pinned against the tire you would break the intermediate shaft long before you generated the same force at the tire. I've seen the ram assisted tire push rocks aside in order to point the wheels where I wanted. The ram is focusing its entire force in the direction of steering, not turning gears and then pushing at an angle in the general direction you want to turn.
 
I've been happy with my rebuilt and tapped box from someone on here (old_man??) and a wj pump. I've got an inline filter but I do still need to add a cooler.
 
You guys are mistaking the proper application of force with more force.

No matter what your box has more power than your ram. And a box can easily be built that will turn the tires no matter what. You'll end up with a cracked frame or worse. That's why mounting a ram to the frame is not a good idea.

A ram, properly mounted, applies force from the axle direct to the knuckle.

The point is, the job of the ram is not to add more power to a system. It is to move that power from the box, directly to the axle.

That is in no way to say you should not run a ram.

My point in this thread is that the OP should start by upgrading his box/pump. He will need to do that anyway even if he decides to run a ram. After a large bore box and high volume pump are done, the OP finds he is wheeling where he is putting lots of added force into the steering system, ie big rocks, then a ram should be used.
 
I still disagree, but if you are building more useable force is that not more important than just building more force anyway? Force to actually turn my knuckles is vastly improved with a ram over any box I've ever run period.
 
zachandandy said:
I still disagree, but if you are building more useable force is that not more important than just building more force anyway? Force to actually turn my knuckles is vastly improved with a ram over any box I've ever run period.
Click to expand...


The point is, you already need to upgrade the box and pump to run a ram.

The ram is an extra expense, that's purpose is for steering in rough wheeling. A mildly wheeled rig on 35"s will be fine with the right pump/box combo.

If you want to add a ram in there, go right ahead, but adding one to a stock box/pump setup is foolish.
 
Well i bought the psc kit today. I understand all about the reason with assist. I run their double ram on my one ton yj. I just didn't know if the durango box and wj pump would do what i want. I like how nice the psc stuff works. Ive ran agr and redneck ram and nothing works as smooth as what i got. Personal preference though. I know everyone has their own ideas. Thank you for the replies!
 
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