Zinc additives anybody?

[tommyr]

Just picked some ZDDPlus up from FeEbay. Price for me was $9.18 a bottle with shipping from Eastwood Co. (The car restoration parts people). They started an auction of 10 bottles for 79.99 and a buy it now of $89.99. I did the auction and got it at $81.00 + shipping. Still expensive, but cheaper than other competition on e-bay. They seem to put the stuff up pretty often.

I was wondering if any of the sponsors might consider becoming a distributor and selling the stuff to us at a little more competitive price. I wonder how many takers there would be out there.

 

[PurpleCherokee]

One :wave1:

 

[xjman96]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...10294161640&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:MOTORS:1123

This is another product on ebay, the claim is that "One ounce per quart of oil takes the level ZDDP to between 1,400 1,600 PMM"

I also wrote to STP here is their answer.

Thank you for contacting us about STP Oil Treatment. We always appreciate hearing from our consumers.
Yes, our STP Oil Treatment does contain ZDDP, however, the amount is proprietary. What I can tell you is that when our product is added to 4 to 5 quarts of oil it will provide you the same anti-wear protection the older motor oils once provided. This is why many classic car owners with flat tappet cam engines use our products.
Again, thank you for contacting us.

Any opinions?

 

[seanyb505]

Sounds like theyre just trying to sell the product without any real info. Did the 4.0 come from the factory with synthetic? I cant imagine it would. i think Im just going to stick with Brad Penn oil until I get to the 5kish mark and then well see where Im at after that. I can pick up Brad Penn for 50 bucks a case, or 25 per change. Not a bad price considering Im looking for great quality. I got two bottles of the ZDDplus but I dont think Ill end up using them anytime soon.

 

[kujito]

Red Line's engine break in additive is like $13/bottle and is supposed to be good for 12 qts. Around here(Denver) you have to go to a performance/racing shop to get it. None of the usual suspects have it.

 

[MCartwright]

Run Mobil 1 Full Synthetic High Milage 10/30 or 10/40 and forget about the snake oil. It is SL rated and the best you can run for a stock I6 4.0. No need for the fancy racing oil, just go to wally world and get the 5 quart jug plus one single and you are done.

 

[Firewater]

Food for thought: I add only 1/2 bottle of zddplus per oil change. I feel that sufficiently raises the zddp level to where it is acceptable for an unmodified 4.0., since a full bottle of zddplus brings it to SF levels. This is not scientific but gives me piece of mind.

 

[w_howey]

Any idea what that bargain basement oil has for ZDDP?

The API specs just state the max concentrations allowed, and can't be used as a guide for how much is in there. A cheap SM rated oil might have less than a better branded SL oil.

Plenty of good reading here http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html. Interesting to note that adding ZDDP without a corresponding increase in detergents is a bad thing. They also state that moly should not be used in an engine oil as its antagonistic to copper bearings.

I've always considered STP to be snake oil - just heavy mineral oil and parafin in a bottle. I'll have to do some digging to see what the ZDDP concentrations are to see if its worth using as an additive.

API sets both a minimum and maximum acceptable level.
.06% by weight is the lowest levels acceptable for ZDDP for both SL and SM rated oils.

 

[lawsoncl]

API sets both a minimum and maximum acceptable level.
.06% by weight is the lowest levels acceptable for ZDDP for both SL and SM rated oils.

I tried finding the specification on www.api.org, but they seem to want you to pay for any of their publications. I did find http://www.infineum.com/information/api-passenger-sm-2004.html which gives the minimum & maxiphosphorus content as .06% which is 600 ppm. So I stand corrected.

(I think you meant % phosphorus, since 0.06% of ZDDP would be about 54 ppm of phosporus).

 

[lawsoncl]

..
Yes, our STP Oil Treatment does contain ZDDP, however, the amount is proprietary...

Behold the power of MSDS! http://www.thecloroxcompany.com/products/msds/armorallstp/stpoiltreatment.pdf

If you believe the MSDS, they have somewhere between 1-5%, which is 900-4500 ppm of phosphorus. Given the cost of the additive versus the filler mineral oil, I suspect it's closer to the 1% mark. The website I cited above somewhere, sent a sample out to Blackstone labs and it came back as 378. http://www.ctci.org/membership/Gilsgarage/EngineOil2.htm

Anyone want to send a fresh sample of STP out for analysis?

 

[PurpleCherokee]

Run Mobil 1 Full Synthetic High Milage 10/30 or 10/40 and forget about the snake oil. It is SL rated and the best you can run for a stock I6 4.0. No need for the fancy racing oil, just go to wally world and get the 5 quart jug plus one single and you are done.

ALL new motor oil has been reformulated for the sake of "emissions", including Mobil 1 Full Syn High Mileage. And a zddp additive is not "snake oil", it's a scientific fact that it protects your engine, especially an older style, "low tech" engine that's not made to adapt to new, less protective "environmentally friendly" motor oil. And who are you to say that Mobil 1 Full Synthetic High Mileage 10/30 is "the best you can run for a stock I6 4.0"? Is it better than full syn Rotella? I don't think so, but I don't go around sayin that full syn Rotella is "the best you can run" because I don't know that for sure. It would take some VERY involved test to find out for sure. What I do know however, is that Rotella is more likely to protect your engine better than the Mobil 1.

 

[w_howey]

I tried finding the specification on www.api.org, but they seem to want you to pay for any of their publications. I did find http://www.infineum.com/information/api-passenger-sm-2004.html which gives the minimum & maxiphosphorus content as .06% which is 600 ppm. So I stand corrected.

(I think you meant % phosphorus, since 0.06% of ZDDP would be about 54 ppm of phosporus).

I actually found the information buried in some API applications for certification that I was looking at trying to decipher how CH rated diesel oils could claim to have 1200ppm of Phosphorus while still claim SL/SM ratings.

And yes I did mean 600 ppm of Phosphorus. That's what happens when I try and multi-task. :callme:

 

[lawsoncl]

I actually found the information buried in some API applications for certification that I was looking at trying to decipher how CH rated diesel oils could claim to have 1200ppm of Phosphorus while still claim SL/SM ratings.

And yes I did mean 600 ppm of Phosphorus. That's what happens when I try and multi-task. :callme:

Did you catch the footnote on the phosporus spec, at the bottom of the link I posted? It said for SM, Non-ILSAC GF-4 viscosity grades there was no max PH level.

 

[trucksgottaheXJ]

What does the local Chrysler dealer have to say on this issue? Lots of pushrod "Hemi's" out there getting flogged, still under warranty. Engine wear is going to happen regardless of chemical nitpicking especially given the way XJ's get beat. Myself I run Wally brand Dinosludgeinall, beat the snot out of the puppy knowing full well that that when crude oil goes to 300 bucks I won't be sitting behing the wheel congradulating myself on the excellent condition of my lifters.

 

[MCartwright]

ALL new motor oil has been reformulated for the sake of "emissions", including Mobil 1 Full Syn High Mileage. And a zddp additive is not "snake oil", it's a scientific fact that it protects your engine, especially an older style, "low tech" engine that's not made to adapt to new, less protective "environmentally friendly" motor oil. And who are you to say that Mobil 1 Full Synthetic High Mileage 10/30 is "the best you can run for a stock I6 4.0"? Is it better than full syn Rotella? I don't think so, but I don't go around sayin that full syn Rotella is "the best you can run" because I don't know that for sure. It would take some VERY involved test to find out for sure. What I do know however, is that Rotella is more likely to protect your engine better than the Mobil 1.

Take it easy big fella. Its an opinion just like any other. Its the best for many reasons, availability, amount of ZDDP, and its not Diesel oil with crazy detergents. Also the Rotella is awfully thick to run in the winter and will hurt MPG (i personally don't like 15-40), plus the new rating stuff has less ZDDP. I refer to any off the shelf "oil treatments" as snake oil because thats the way most people suppilment thier ZDDP, a magic bottle of unknown. That wonder fix in a bottle is a snake oil. M1 HM has better ZDDP numbers than the newer Rotella. If you could use a SL rated oil whyn wouldn't you, it is hard to find, and this is a easy to find quality oil.