YJ steering in an XJ?

[Wildchild467]

I searched high and low and cant find much on the topic. I have a 6.5 foot western plow on my 2000 XJ and am looking to swap out the "inverted Y" steering linkage for the traditional style steering with a good ol' tie rod and drag link. I would like to do it all with junk yard parts. Im only turning 235-75-15's and dont need the bigger WJ brakes and knucles. Will the stock YJ drag link and tie rod bolt up to my XJ and/or how much modding would need to be done to make it work? I hate the idea of when i have the plow on my toe in changes. any help would be great! thanks!

 

[IdahoEagle]

Yes, it will bolt right on... It is exactly the same front axle only set up for leafs instead of coils...

 

[WB9YZU]

A popular mod is to use a ZJ tie rod in place of the XJ one. Same lenght, just stronger.

Ron

 

[kastein]

Won't solve the toe-in issue, though, sadly. I like this idea, maybe bring a tape measure to a junkyard and measure the important dimensions, then compare? Pretty sure IdahoEagle is right, but it never hurts to measure first.

 

[Goatman]

Yeah, YJ steering will bolt on, it's been done plenty of times in the past. However, it has ceased to be a popular mod because of the dead spot caused by the tie rod rolling. The YJ inverted T steering is good when there is little drag link angle, like on a stock YJ, but the XJ has more angle to begin with and then when the vehicle is lifted there is even more angle and so there is a serious dead spot.

How often do you take the plow on and off?

Setting the toe each time has to be faster than changing the plow.

 

[muddeprived]

Get some ACOS spacers. You can adjust the height when needed.

 

[Wildchild467]

Goatman, im pretty sure we are on the same page that the tow-in would not change when i have the plow on and when i have it off, right? This is why i like the YJ design because the tie rod goes from knuckle to knuckle, and will not change with a load on the front end. I know the steering wheel might change a little (allthough it dosnt now). I have heavy duty front springs (bigger diameter coil) in the jeep now which may be similiar to the up-country springs and the front end only drops about an inch raising the plow and resting it on the ground.

It dosnt take me long at all to attach the plow, maybe 5 minutes or so.

Im not sure what you mean by having a dead spot in the steering though. are you talking about the angle of the drag link in respect to the tie rod? Im sure you guys are fimiliar with the springs i have and looking at my angles now, i dont think its that excessive.

Does anybody have a picture of a YJ Steering on an XJ? Pictures are always good and i believe the steering shock bolts right up the same way, right?

Thanks again for your help guys! )

 

[muddeprived]

Goatman, im pretty sure we are on the same page that the tow-in would not change when i have the plow on and when i have it off, right? This is why i like the YJ design because the tie rod goes from knuckle to knuckle, and will not change with a load on the front end. I know the steering wheel might change a little (allthough it dosnt now). I have heavy duty front springs (bigger diameter coil) in the jeep now which may be similiar to the up-country springs and the front end only drops about an inch raising the plow and resting it on the ground.

It dosnt take me long at all to attach the plow, maybe 5 minutes or so.

Im not sure what you mean by having a dead spot in the steering though. are you talking about the angle of the drag link in respect to the tie rod? Im sure you guys are fimiliar with the springs i have and looking at my angles now, i dont think its that excessive.

Does anybody have a picture of a YJ Steering on an XJ? Pictures are always good and i believe the steering shock bolts right up the same way, right?

Thanks again for your help guys! )

Alot of crossover steering setups have dead spots where you can turn the steering wheel about 1/4 turn and get no reaction from the wheels. This has something to do with tie rod roll or something.

 

[Goatman]

Crossover steering is where both the drag link and the tie rod attach to the knuckle, like on a CJ. There is no dead spot with crossover steering. Some people with XJ's make a crossover steering setup by making a new tie rod that mounts below the knuckle and goes knuckle to knuckle, then making a new drag link that attaches to the top of the knuckle. You have to use heim joints to do this.

Invert T is like the YJ steering where the drag link attaches to the tie rod. if the drag link has much angle on it then it pushes down and pulls up on the tie rod, and the tie rod rotates before any steering force is exerted causing a dead spot........you turn the wheel but nothing happens until the slop/roll is out of the tie rod joints. On a YJ, the steering box is mounted lower and closer to the tie rod, so the drag link angle is pretty flat. An XJ box is mounted higher, plus we lift them, so the drag link has more angle and you get the dead spot. Many people in the past have used the YJ steering, and so many didn't like it that it's not done much any more. Also, the tie rod hangs down lower because it's all the way across under the knuckle and the YJ tie rod isn't very strong so offroad it bends easily.

The XJ steering is inverted Y, which won't have a dead spot since the knuckle is attached diectly to the pitman arm, but there can be a slight toe change as the suspension cycles. Normally, the toe change is minute and only changes on bigger bumps on the street and the short cycle time of the suspension means nothing.

How often is the snow plow mounted? If it's not very often, and if you drive relatively short distances, I wouldn't worry about the slight toe change. Other vehicles have inverted Y steering, like my F250. I mounted my big Lance camper, which added about 500 lbs to the front axle, and drove all over and never worried about toe change and never had tire wear issues. Most alignments are set just slightly toe in, so any small play in the front end joints pulls the tires straight, and putting your snow plow on would do the same thing. I don't think I'd worry about it, unless you're looking to upgrade your steering anyway.

 

[muddeprived]

Crossover steering is where both the drag link and the tie rod attach to the knuckle, like on a CJ. There is no dead spot with crossover steering. Some people with XJ's make a crossover steering setup by making a new tie rod that mounts below the knuckle and goes knuckle to knuckle, then making a new drag link that attaches to the top of the knuckle. You have to use heim joints to do this.

Invert T is like the YJ steering where the drag link attaches to the tie rod. if the drag link has much angle on it then it pushes down and pulls up on the tie rod, and the tie rod rotates before any steering force is exerted causing a dead spot........you turn the wheel but nothing happens until the slop/roll is out of the tie rod joints. On a YJ, the steering box is mounted lower and closer to the tie rod, so the drag link angle is pretty flat. An XJ box is mounted higher, plus we lift them, so the drag link has more angle and you get the dead spot. Many people in the past have used the YJ steering, and so many didn't like it that it's not done much any more. Also, the tie rod hangs down lower because it's all the way across under the knuckle and the YJ tie rod isn't very strong so offroad it bends easily.

The XJ steering is inverted Y, which won't have a dead spot since the knuckle is attached diectly to the pitman arm, but there can be a slight toe change as the suspension cycles. Normally, the toe change is minute and only changes on bigger bumps on the street and the short cycle time of the suspension means nothing.

How often is the snow plow mounted? If it's not very often, and if you drive relatively short distances, I wouldn't worry about the slight toe change. Other vehicles have inverted Y steering, like my F250. I mounted my big Lance camper, which added about 500 lbs to the front axle, and drove all over and never worried about toe change and never had tire wear issues. Most alignments are set just slightly toe in, so any small play in the front end joints pulls the tires straight, and putting your snow plow on would do the same thing. I don't think I'd worry about it, unless you're looking to upgrade your steering anyway.

I stand corrected. I got the two steering setups mixed up. My bad. :sad1:

 

[Wildchild467]

Wos, you've been a big help! I try not to go too far (30 miles one way) with the plow just because its heavy and i was thinkin about the toe out. Ofcourse sometimes ill have it on for a couple days because it might still be snowing out. I have a toe-in gauge that you drive over and maybe ill have to throw the plow on and see what happens.

I know what you mean by the inverted T and how the tie rod can roll. First Ill check my toe in with and without the plow and go from there. if there is a big difference, ill change it. I could get a inverted t steering from the junk yard for not too much, i could give it a try and if i dont like it, i have 30 days to take it back. I can see how WJ steering would be nice, but that would be a lot more work that i want to do. Thanks again for your help!! Ill put up another post here sometime this week to let you know what the toe in change is with and without the plow. )

 

[Wildchild467]

Well i bought tie rod and drag link at the junkyard from a YJ. I took it home cleaned it up, wirebrushed and antisiezed all the threads and layed some nice black paint on it. I went to install install it and ran into a problem. everything seemed like it would bolt right on, but the steering shock would have hit the track bar. I thought it was a bolt in deal. I dont mean to sound like im mad, im not...just a minor set back. what am missing or what do i have to do to make it work? does anybody have pictures of such a set-up on an XJ? I either reposition the steering shock or try to mount it on the drag link, correct?

Here are some random measurments i took while i was putting it on:

The front end drops down 1.75 inches between no plow on the jeep and plow on and raised up.

With no plow, the rough distance to the center of the tie rod end on my steering box to the center of the drag link going to the left wheel is about 4 inches. I am giving this measurement in response to Goatman bringing up the "rolling" of the tie rod when the drag link angle gets too much. anybody think this is too much for a "inverted t" steering?

 

[joe_peters]

This is what you need: http://rustysoffroad.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=RS-SSM&Category_Code=ste

Pretty simple, make it yourself for chump change.

 

[RCP Phx]

This is what you need: http://rustysoffroad.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=RS-SSM&Category_Code=ste

Pretty simple, make it yourself for chump change.

If your going to make one,do it right! Heres one I just finished.

 

[muddeprived]

If your going to make one,do it right! Heres one I just finished.

That's neat. Those would sell like hotcakes. A two piece version of that would be neater cuz u wouldn't have to remove a tie rod to get it on.

 

[Wildchild467]

That bracket that RPC made wouldn’t use the original steering stabilizer, correct? I like your design though, looks a lot beefier than the one in the link! Now the stabilizer would bolt on to the drag link, correct? I could fab up something im sure...that's half the fun sometimes saying, "yea, i built that" )

 

[Wildchild467]

RPC, is the bracket that you made for a XJ with cross over steering? If so what steering shock did you use? It looks like it has a stud mount on one end instead of the hole like stock XJ's use.

 

[RCP Phx]

You are correct,its uses a stem shock,but Ive made them for "eye" mounting also.

 

[Wildchild467]

I started assembling the YJ steering last night and found that there is not enough clearance between the tie rod and track bar bolt.....When the wheels are turned all the way to the right, the tie rod hits the bolt that connects the track bar to the axle. I'll try to post a picture of this soon. I thought the YJ steering would bolt right in (with the exception of the steering shock) to my stock 2000 XJ (Low Pinion Dana 30) front axle. Can anybody shed some light on to what i am missing? Are Track Bar Brackets different between high pinion and low pinion that may be causing my problems? THANKS!

 

[muddeprived]

Do you have a lift? Is your axle too far forward?