WJ Brakes - I think I waded through it all

[Cottontail]

I am considering doing the WJ brake upgrade. I have a 2001 XJ running 265s on stock 16" silver stars. A bunch of steering is already upgraded...ZJ tie rod, double shear track bar, etc.

So, based on my reading, I understand the following to be true:


a) Since I have an 01 I don't need to do the booster or master cylinder swap.
b) I don't need to do OTK steering. My current set up will be fine.
c) I only need to buy knuckles, caliper, caliper bracket, and a JKS spacer
d) I need to get WJ rotors and drill them for 5 x 4.5 hubs without more mods. I could use a Sport Trac rotor, but it would require mods to the caliper.
e) I don't need to get new hubs. What I have is fine.
f) I will need new lower WJ ball joints.


This is one topic where there seems to be an overload of discussions on several sites but none of them seem to be comprehensive. And the ones that are the most comprehensive are the ones where fabrication is necessary.


Is it really this simple?

 

[blondejoncherokee]

fresh caliper bolts too. napa has em, cheap.

they will clear your 16s just fine.

I ran 2001 tj unit bearings. not sure if your 2001 unit bearings would work. if 2001 xj and tj are the same, you are good.

I used rock auto for centric premium calipers/brackers/pads and IRO for pre drilled rotors.


I say do it. Its huge on a lifted XJ.

 

[831_xj]

99-01 unit bearings are same.

Caliper bolts are one time use only! Rock auto should have them.

Get akebono calipers

And no, not "real simple"

What steering setup do you have? It most likely will not work....

 

[Cottontail]

It's basically an upgraded stock set-up. I put in a ZJ tie rod and an aftermarket adjustable double shear track bar.

What makes you say it "most likely" won't work.

 

[Anak]

From what I have read (not having done this yet...still collecting pieces) it is when you go over the knuckle that the steering complications come in. But I have seen very little discussion about any complications with running things under the knuckle. It may well be that there is nothing much to say because it all works smoothly.

If you go this route it would be nice to document what is/isn't necessary and if it is indeed as simple as you think it will be.

 

[831_xj]

I'm pretty sure the taper is different.. not 100% though. but you might as well do a crossover steering. Not sure why you'd cheap out now. It's not the most inexpensive swap. But some major gains.

 

[Johnnie Walker]

If you run WJ setup with stock steering a drop pitman arm is required.
Since you seem to want to keep your current steering. Vanco, black magic etc setupp seems to make more sense.

 

[blondejoncherokee]

You dont need a drop pitman arm and. TRE taper is the same as xj. If you go otk youll need to cut off the driver side sway bar mount and run no sway bars and build a new one

 

[Cottontail]

So one says it does need a drop pitman, and one that doesn't....and I've followed threads by both of y'all, and trust both your opinions on previous topics...so, I'm not sure exactly what to do.

My plan is/was to go with the upgrade brakes on the stock steering set up and eventually move up to OTK.

 

[Anak]

Following along as one who is genuinely interested and not knowing the details of those two builds, I have to wonder what makes the difference for the drop pitman arm. Is there a difference in lift between those two builds? (That seems to be the easy question, to me at least.) Is there some other relevant difference?

 

[Devilfrog]

I am considering doing the WJ brake upgrade. I have a 2001 XJ running 265s on stock 16" silver stars. A bunch of steering is already upgraded...ZJ tie rod, double shear track bar, etc.

So, based on my reading, I understand the following to be true:


a) Since I have an 01 I don't need to do the booster or master cylinder swap.

You don't need to do a master booster swap in any event, it is recommended for earlier Cherokees (pre 96) but not required.

b) I don't need to do OTK steering. My current set up will be fine.
c) I only need to buy knuckles, caliper, caliper bracket, and a JKS spacer

every caliper I purchased always came with the related bracket. Akebono or Teeves. FYI - I have been running Teeves for two years without a warped rotor ... Musta been a WJ thing.

d) I need to get WJ rotors and drill them for 5 x 4.5 hubs without more mods. I could use a Sport Trac rotor, but it would require mods to the caliper.
e) I don't need to get new hubs. What I have is fine.
f) I will need new lower WJ ball joints. [\quote]
If you use sport Trac rotors, you need to modify the HUB not the caliper. The hub outer diameter needs to be shaved down a wee bit. The caliper bracket need to be respaced to center the caliper though.
Your 01 hubs are fine, XJ is the same as TJ.
Yes the WJ lower ball joint has a different taper.

This is one topic where there seems to be an overload of discussions on several sites but none of them seem to be comprehensive. And the ones that are the most comprehensive are the ones where fabrication is necessary.

Yep. Sad but true, also have to wade through a crap tonne of misinformation as well.

Is it really this simple?

Simple? No, but not as hard as many might think or say.

I have heard of many conversions using stock steering over the last couple years. Only issue was the linkage mounting slightly lower than stock. OTK was only a need over a certain lift height, before that it's just an option. As mentioned above the taper is the same. If you do the swap, try your stock steering, if you have issues it's just a stock ZJ pitman to fix. It comes down to every build kinda being it's own end product ... The recipe is more or less the same, but the outcome has it's own flavor.

 

[831_xj]

Ok good thing somebody chimed about the taper... I wasn't sure.

I had to switch to a WJ/TJ arm to get the correct angles afterwards. But I had already had 1 ton y link setup before.

I'd imagine with the knuckles not sticking out as far you may or may not run into issues with clearance there.

 

[blondejoncherokee]

If you dont change the steering style and just use a stock style and go OtK on the driver only you will be set. If you run wj steering which is crossover you will need to run a taller trackbar mount and maybe a drop pitman possibly . But if you dont go wj crossover and keep xj style steering you dont need a drop pitman arm or to mess with the trackbar .

I just ran currie sterring with a goferit insert on the driver side. I had to cut the driver side sway bar mount off though. I did it purely for the braking and the OTK sterring on the driver side was more than enough.

Wj lower ball joint is a different taper but thats bj not tre

 

[cal]

I run WJ steering and do not run a drop pitman arm. That is 100% a factor of your trackbar mount. You have to build your trackbar and draglink to have the same geometry, and pitman arm is one way to adjust that.

The tie rod arms on WJ knuckles are shorter than the tie rod arms on XJ knuckles. If you run XJ style steering just to the tie rod arms, you will loose steering throw. You may need a longer pitman arm (not more drop, more throw) to compensate, but you're really better off building out the crossover steering (which is the better half of the upgrade, IMHO).

 

[Cottontail]

If you dont change the steering style and just use a stock style and go OtK on the driver only you will be set. If you run wj steering which is crossover you will need to run a taller trackbar mount and maybe a drop pitman possibly . But if you dont go wj crossover and keep xj style steering you dont need a drop pitman arm or to mess with the trackbar .

I just ran currie sterring with a goferit insert on the driver side. I had to cut the driver side sway bar mount off though. I did it purely for the braking and the OTK sterring on the driver side was more than enough.

Wj lower ball joint is a different taper but thats bj not tre

I didn't know that was even possible. Tell me more. Does that require any aftermarket items ?

 

[Johnnie Walker]

Driver OTK only is a common "swap". You will either need to ream the hole from the top, or drill and weld in a tapered insert.
Depending on how your setup is specifically, you may or may not need to modify the driver side sway bar mount.

As far as the WJ knuckles with Stock steering setup..
The WJ knuckle lower mount is lower than an XJ. Which would change your drag link angle. I guess you could do that and drive it as is and see if you have any bumpsteer or other issues. But to get the angles correct, a drop pitman arm would make them "stock-like angles"

With any drilling or reaming, I recommend doing this on a bench/outside of the vehicle. While mounted to the axle there is potential for movement and messing up the hole.

Another side note, Recently I have thought about what it would take to make a bigger brake setup ( something similar to Vanco ), using mostly off the shelf parts. Something along the lines of using the older Renix-era 2-piece knuckles with an extended bracket for calipers, possibly extending down and bolt-in to a couple of the unit bearing holes for aded strength. I was thinking WJ akebono calipers, TJ unit bearings, and late model Charger (non-R/T or non-AWD) discs (they measure approx 12.5 vs the 12 of the WJ, AND they have the same 5x4.5 bolt pattern as out XJ/MJ's). The R/T and AWD Charger models use even LARGER 13.5 discs, which I guess could be done but would need decently large wheels, or very little backspacing.

 

[cal]

they're 5x115 not 5x114.3. Similar sized, but not the same sized, you'd have to pound the rotors on.

A similar kit does already exist using redrilled Dodge Ram 1500 rotors and calipers on machined TJ knuckles.

 

[yossarian19]

Add "ZJ pitman arm" to the list.
It drops your steering by the same 3/4" that the WJ knuckle's steering arm does, maintaining factory angles.

 

[Johnnie Walker]

they're 5x115 not 5x114.3. Similar sized, but not the same sized, you'd have to pound the rotors on.

A similar kit does already exist using redrilled Dodge Ram 1500 rotors and calipers on machined TJ knuckles.

Then how do people run charger steel wheels on xjs? Because that happens. ..

 

[Devilfrog]

they're 5x115 not 5x114.3. Similar sized, but not the same sized, you'd have to pound the rotors on.

A similar kit does already exist using redrilled Dodge Ram 1500 rotors and calipers on machined TJ knuckles.

Not necessarily as most rotors have 5/8" holes, yet the studs are 1/2" ... I'm going to look into this .... If the rotor hat height is correct it'd save having to drill WJ rotors.

Crap - just noticed they were bigger, damn ... So much for easy answers.