VTEK1
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Gardner, Massacuhsetts
I wouldn't be running that thick of oil if you live in a place that gets wicked cold tho. You'd kill the oil pump in the winter with that thick of oil.
-
Welcome to the new NAXJA Forum! If your password does not work, please use "Forgot your password?" link on the log-in page. Please feel free to reach out to [email protected] if we can provide any assistance.
what's the thickest oil weight to run?
- Thread starter muddeprived
- Start date
winterbeater
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Royal Oak, Michigan
How's that?
Chrisc321
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Las Vegas, NV
:huh::doh:
Multi-weight oils (such as 10W-30) are made possible by adding polymers to oil. The polymers allow the oil to have different weights at different temperatures. The first number indicates the viscosity of the oil at a cold temperature, while the second number indicates the viscosity at operating temperature.
At cold temperatures, the polymers are coiled up and allow the oil to flow as their low numbers indicate. As the oil warms up, the polymers begin to unwind into long chains that prevent the oil from thinning as much as it normally would. The result is that at 100 degrees C, the oil has thinned only as much as the higher viscosity number indicates. Another way of looking at multi-vis oils is to think of a 20W-50 as a 20 weight oil that will not thin more than a 50 weight would when hot.
Clear as mud?
TunaSoda
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Douglas, MA
Exactly what I was saying
TunaSoda
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Douglas, MA
40w60 would have a viscosity of 40 when cold and 60 when hot
MaxxXJ
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Bakersfield CA
when i bought my 2000 xj with 103K on the clock they put in the typical 10w-30 in it, but after a few trips to the beach and it dropping to about 10-15psi at idle i went down and bought some royal purple 10w-40 with the royal purple filter. (bout 60 bucks an oil change every 8000 miles) BUT now i idle consistantly at about 20psi and crusing down the road it holds a nice 50psi i've been running it for the past 3 oil changes (1 i changed the oil at 3500 to clean out the old stuff 2nd at 6K and this one im running it to 8000 miles) and it has been treating me pretty good. no leaks im not burning any oil or anything, but to each their own, i love my full synthetic and twice the life between oil changes(which im still trying to get used to lol)
TunaSoda
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Douglas, MA
You can change the filter every 6k and the oil every 12k with purple
Chrisc321
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Las Vegas, NV
Umm.. No.
Oil will NEVER have higher viscosity when hot. What I am saying is this:
say 20 weight oil @ 100 degrees C (centigrade) is viscosity "A"
and 50 weight oil (thicker than 20 weight) @ 100 degrees is viscosity "B"
obviously A is less viscous than B
polymers are added to oil so that 20 weight "cold" oil can retain much of its viscosity at 100 degrees C, thus making it equal to viscosity "B" at operating temerature.
So, to sum it up, 20W50 oil will be 20 weight oil cold, and will only thin to the point that straight 50 weight oil would thin to at operating temp. it is not more viscous at operating temp than it is when cold.
Hope this helps.
Sorry for Hasta
muddeprived
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- PA
the 10w-40 with lucas stopped my leak. whatdoyaknow.......:spin1:
Of course now that I said that it's gonna start pouring out next time I drive it....:gag:
Of course now that I said that it's gonna start pouring out next time I drive it....:gag:
- Location
- WA state
Amsoil warrants up to 12mo/25k miles
MaxxXJ
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Bakersfield CA
hopefully it fixed your problem i'll cross my fingers for ya too lol i hate problems that involve expensive repairs =/
MaxxXJ
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Bakersfield CA
i wonder if amsoil is cheaper than royal purple =/ i pay 8.99 a bottle for royal purple
wolfpackjeeper
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- 500' and 500KCAS, RAF lakenheath
amsoil seem to have a lot higher love/hate ratio than royal purple. For every person who likes it there seems to be one that will never use it again. Royal Purple, while more expensive seems to be generally liked better.
I will switch the stroker to one or the other this oil change cycle in october, but I have not decided which yet. For what it is worth my 4.7 runs great on Mobil 10w30 EP synthetic with a K&N filter. 15k miles since I built it.
I will switch the stroker to one or the other this oil change cycle in october, but I have not decided which yet. For what it is worth my 4.7 runs great on Mobil 10w30 EP synthetic with a K&N filter. 15k miles since I built it.
- Location
- MilkyWay Galaxy
There is one guy running loose here at 
that was running straight Lucas in his beast. Depends on how much wear there is, and how hot, or cold you run it.
that was running straight Lucas in his beast. Depends on how much wear there is, and how hot, or cold you run it.
TunaSoda
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Douglas, MA
You can find purple for right under $7 a qt
Even $10 a qt is cheap for a 12k oil change
Even $10 a qt is cheap for a 12k oil change
wolfpackjeeper
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- 500' and 500KCAS, RAF lakenheath
There is one guy running loose here at
lucas oil, or lucas oil stabilizer. You can get both at specialty shops and places like fleetpride.
Silver60th
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Texas
I run Delo 15w40 in both of our jeeps. It has raised oil pressure a bit being a little thicker but so far so good
ColoradoRaptor
Headbanging Hillbilly
- Location
- Canon City, Crawlorado
Multi viscosity oils work like this: Polymers are added to a light base(5W, 10W, 20W), which prevent the oil from thinning as much as it warms up. At cold temperatures the polymers are coiled up and allow the oil to flow as their low numbers indicate. As the oil warms up the polymers begin to unwind into long chains that prevent the oil from thinning as much as it normally would. The result is that at 100 degrees C the oil has thinned only as much as the higher viscosity number indicates. Another way of looking at multi-vis oils is to think of a 20W-50 as a 20 weight oil that will not thin more than a 50 weight would when hot.
Multi viscosity oils are one of the great improvements in oils, but they should be chosen wisely. Always use a multi grade with the narrowest span of viscosity that is appropriate for the temperatures you are going to encounter. In the winter base your decision on the lowest temperature you will encounter, in the summer, the highest temperature you expect. The polymers can shear and burn forming deposits that can cause ring sticking and other problems. 10W-40 and 5W-30 require a lot of polymers(synthetics excluded) to achieve that range. This has caused problems in diesel engines, but fewer polymers are better for all engines. The wide viscosity range oils, in general, are more prone to viscosity and thermal breakdown due to the high polymer content. It is the oil that lubricates, not the additives. Oils that can do their job with the fewest additives are the best.
Very few manufacturers recommend 10W-40 any more, and some threaten to void warranties if it is used. It was not included in this article for that reason. 20W-50 is the same 30 point spread, but because it starts with a heavier base it requires less viscosity index improvers (polymers) to do the job. AMSOIL can formulate their 10W-30 and 15W-40 with no viscosity index improvers but uses some in the 10W-40 and 5W-30. Other multigrade synthetics may not use VI improvers either. The full literature available from the oil company should include this information. Follow your manufacturer's recommendations as to which weights are appropriate for your vehicle.
Viscosity Index is an empirical number indicating the rate of change in viscosity of an oil within a given temperature range. Higher numbers indicate a low change, lower numbers indicate a relatively large change. The higher the number the better. This is one major property of an oil that keeps your bearings happy. These numbers can only be compared within a viscosity range. It is not an indication of how well the oil resists thermal breakdown.
Flash point is the temperature at which an oil gives off vapors that can be ignited with a flame held over the oil. The lower the flash point the greater tendancy for the oil to suffer vaporization loss at high temperatures and to burn off on hot cylinder walls and pistons. The flash point can be an indicator of the quality of the base stock used. The higher the flash point the better. 400 F is the minimum to prevent possible high consumption. Flash point is in degrees F.
Pour point is 5 degrees F above the point at which a chilled oil shows no movement at the surface for 5 seconds when inclined. This measurement is especially important for oils used in the winter. A borderline pumping temperature is given by some manufacturers. This is the temperature at which the oil will pump and maintain adequate oil pressure. This was not given by a lot of the manufacturers, but seems to be about 20 degrees F above the pour point. The lower the pour point the better. Pour point is in degrees F.
% sulfated ash is how much solid material is left when the oil is reacted with sulfuric acid and burned. This is used to quantify the amount of metallic antiwear and detergent additives in the oil. Zinc dithiophosphate is a common detergent and antiwear additive that is reflected in this test.
% zinc is the amount of zinc used as an extreme pressure, anti- wear additive. The zinc is only used when there is actual metal to metal contact in the engine. Hopefully the oil will do its job and this will rarely occur, but if it does, the zinc compounds react with the metal to prevent scuffing and wear. A level of .11% is enough to protect an automobile engine for the extended oil drain interval, under normal use. Those of you with high reving, air cooled motorcycles or turbo charged cars or bikes might want to look at the oils with the higher zinc content. More doesn't give you better protection, it gives you longer protection if the rate of metal to metal contact is abnormally high.
The Data: (Note: this data is mostly from 1991 and is for SG rated oils. Some of the data is current, and I am working on collecting the most recent data. I have found over the years that the "better" oils remain the "better" oils. It is still valid as a place to start in your own search. The formulation of oils is constantly being updated and subject to change by the manufacturer at any time. The best thing to do is collect data on the oils you are interested in directly from the oil company.)
[An * after the oil name indicates current SH rated version.]
Listed alphabetically. Empty cells indicate the data was not avaliable.
Brand VI Flash Pour %
ash %
zinc 20W-50 AMSOIL* 151 507 -45 AMSOIL Series 2000* 155 474 -47 Castrol GTX* 122 440 -15 .85 .12 Castrol Syntec Blend* 135 440 -17 .105 Chevron Supreme* 140 428 -17 <1 Exxon High Performance 119 419 -13 .70 .11 Havoline Formula 3 125 465 -30 1.0 Kendall GT-1 129 390 -25 1.0 .16 Pennzoil GT Perf. 120 460 -10 .9 Quaker State Perf.* 121 440 -20 Quaker State Motorcycle 140 440 -25 Red Line 150 503 -49 Shell Fire and Ice* 126 450 -10 .9 .12 Shell Truck Guard* 130 450 -15 1.0 .12 Spectro Golden 4 174 440 -35 .15 Spectro Golden M.G. 174 440 -35 .13 Ultra Chem 190 455 -34 Unocal 121 432 -11 .74 .12 Valvoline All Climate 125 430 -10 1.0 .11 Valvoline Turbo 140 440 -10 .99 .13 Valvoline Race 140 425 -10 1.2 .20 Valvoline DuraBlend 126 455 -17 <1.5 .125 Valvoline Synthetic 146 465 -40 <1.5 .12 15W-50 Mobil 1 170 470 -55 Mystic JT8 144 420 -20 1.7 .15 Red Line 152 503 -49 5W-50 Castrol Syntec* 175 465 <-54 .102 Chevron Supreme* 175 460 -38 1.45 Quaker State Synquest* 175 460 -50 Pennzoil Performax 176 -69 5W-40 Havoline 170 450 -40 1.4 15W-40 AMSOIL* 165 462 -49 Castrol 134 415 -15 1.3 .14 Chevron Delo 400* 134 424 -38 <1 Exxon XD3 417 -11 .9 .14 Exxon XD3 Extra 135 399 -11 .95 .13 Kendall GT-1 135 410 -25 1.0 .16 Mystic JT8 142 440 -20 1.7 .15 Quaker State* 129 420 -25 Quaker State HDX* 146 440 -30 .97 Quaker State HDX Plus* 148 420 -25 1.37 Red Line 149 495 -40 Shell Rotella w/XLA* 146 414 -32 1.0 .12 Valvoline All Fleet 140 -10 1.0 .15 Valvoline DuraBlend 137 450 -17 <1.5 .125 Valvoline Turbo 140 420 -10 .99 .13 10W-30 AMSOIL* 171 464 -54 Castrol GTX* 143 415 -32 1.07 .12 Castrol Syntec Blend* 138 415 -33 .105 Castrol Syntec* 157 455 <-54 .102 Chevron Supreme* 150 419 -27 <1 Exxon Superflo Hi Perf 135 392 -22 .70 .11 Exxon Superflo Supreme 133 400 -31 .85 .13 Havoline Formula 3 139 430 -30 1.0 Kendall GT-1 139 390 -25 1.0 .16 Mobil 1 160 450 -65 Pennzoil PLZ Turbo 140 410 -27 1.0 Quaker State* 140 410 -30 .9 Quaker State 4x4* 135 430 -35 Red Line 139 475 -40 Shell Fire and Ice* 155 410 -35 .9 .12 Shell Rotella w/XLA* 155 405 -37 1.0 .12 Shell Truck Guard* 155 405 -35 1.0 .12 Spectro Golden M.G. 175 405 -40 Unocal Super 153 428 -33 .92 .12 Valvoline All Climate 130 410 -26 1.0 .11 Valvoline Turbo 135 410 -26 .99 .13 Valvoline Race 130 410 -26 1.2 .20 Valvoline DuraBlend 142 440 -27 <1.5 .125 Valvoline Synthetic 140 450 -40 <1.5 .12 5W-30 AMSOIL* 186 478 -67 Castrol GTX* 160 410 -35 1.35 .12 Chevron Supreme* 167 410 -38 <1 Chevron Supreme Synt.* 169 468 -49 Exxon Superflow HP 148 392 -22 .70 .11 Havoline Formula 3 158 420 -40 1.0 Mobil 1 165 445 -65 Mystic JT8 161 390 -25 .95 .1 Quaker State* 155 405 -35 Quaker State Synquest* 168 450 -58 Red Line 151 455 -49 Shell Fire and Ice* 167 405 -35 .9 .12 Unocal 151 414 -33 .81 .12 Valvoline All Climate 135 405 -40 1.0 .11 Valvoline Turbo 158 405 -40 .99 .13 Valvoline DuraBlend 162 415 -38 <1.5 .125 Valvoline Synthetic 160 435 -40 <1.5 .12
Multi viscosity oils are one of the great improvements in oils, but they should be chosen wisely. Always use a multi grade with the narrowest span of viscosity that is appropriate for the temperatures you are going to encounter. In the winter base your decision on the lowest temperature you will encounter, in the summer, the highest temperature you expect. The polymers can shear and burn forming deposits that can cause ring sticking and other problems. 10W-40 and 5W-30 require a lot of polymers(synthetics excluded) to achieve that range. This has caused problems in diesel engines, but fewer polymers are better for all engines. The wide viscosity range oils, in general, are more prone to viscosity and thermal breakdown due to the high polymer content. It is the oil that lubricates, not the additives. Oils that can do their job with the fewest additives are the best.
Very few manufacturers recommend 10W-40 any more, and some threaten to void warranties if it is used. It was not included in this article for that reason. 20W-50 is the same 30 point spread, but because it starts with a heavier base it requires less viscosity index improvers (polymers) to do the job. AMSOIL can formulate their 10W-30 and 15W-40 with no viscosity index improvers but uses some in the 10W-40 and 5W-30. Other multigrade synthetics may not use VI improvers either. The full literature available from the oil company should include this information. Follow your manufacturer's recommendations as to which weights are appropriate for your vehicle.
Viscosity Index is an empirical number indicating the rate of change in viscosity of an oil within a given temperature range. Higher numbers indicate a low change, lower numbers indicate a relatively large change. The higher the number the better. This is one major property of an oil that keeps your bearings happy. These numbers can only be compared within a viscosity range. It is not an indication of how well the oil resists thermal breakdown.
Flash point is the temperature at which an oil gives off vapors that can be ignited with a flame held over the oil. The lower the flash point the greater tendancy for the oil to suffer vaporization loss at high temperatures and to burn off on hot cylinder walls and pistons. The flash point can be an indicator of the quality of the base stock used. The higher the flash point the better. 400 F is the minimum to prevent possible high consumption. Flash point is in degrees F.
Pour point is 5 degrees F above the point at which a chilled oil shows no movement at the surface for 5 seconds when inclined. This measurement is especially important for oils used in the winter. A borderline pumping temperature is given by some manufacturers. This is the temperature at which the oil will pump and maintain adequate oil pressure. This was not given by a lot of the manufacturers, but seems to be about 20 degrees F above the pour point. The lower the pour point the better. Pour point is in degrees F.
% sulfated ash is how much solid material is left when the oil is reacted with sulfuric acid and burned. This is used to quantify the amount of metallic antiwear and detergent additives in the oil. Zinc dithiophosphate is a common detergent and antiwear additive that is reflected in this test.
% zinc is the amount of zinc used as an extreme pressure, anti- wear additive. The zinc is only used when there is actual metal to metal contact in the engine. Hopefully the oil will do its job and this will rarely occur, but if it does, the zinc compounds react with the metal to prevent scuffing and wear. A level of .11% is enough to protect an automobile engine for the extended oil drain interval, under normal use. Those of you with high reving, air cooled motorcycles or turbo charged cars or bikes might want to look at the oils with the higher zinc content. More doesn't give you better protection, it gives you longer protection if the rate of metal to metal contact is abnormally high.
The Data: (Note: this data is mostly from 1991 and is for SG rated oils. Some of the data is current, and I am working on collecting the most recent data. I have found over the years that the "better" oils remain the "better" oils. It is still valid as a place to start in your own search. The formulation of oils is constantly being updated and subject to change by the manufacturer at any time. The best thing to do is collect data on the oils you are interested in directly from the oil company.)
[An * after the oil name indicates current SH rated version.]
Listed alphabetically. Empty cells indicate the data was not avaliable.
Brand VI Flash Pour %
ash %
zinc 20W-50 AMSOIL* 151 507 -45 AMSOIL Series 2000* 155 474 -47 Castrol GTX* 122 440 -15 .85 .12 Castrol Syntec Blend* 135 440 -17 .105 Chevron Supreme* 140 428 -17 <1 Exxon High Performance 119 419 -13 .70 .11 Havoline Formula 3 125 465 -30 1.0 Kendall GT-1 129 390 -25 1.0 .16 Pennzoil GT Perf. 120 460 -10 .9 Quaker State Perf.* 121 440 -20 Quaker State Motorcycle 140 440 -25 Red Line 150 503 -49 Shell Fire and Ice* 126 450 -10 .9 .12 Shell Truck Guard* 130 450 -15 1.0 .12 Spectro Golden 4 174 440 -35 .15 Spectro Golden M.G. 174 440 -35 .13 Ultra Chem 190 455 -34 Unocal 121 432 -11 .74 .12 Valvoline All Climate 125 430 -10 1.0 .11 Valvoline Turbo 140 440 -10 .99 .13 Valvoline Race 140 425 -10 1.2 .20 Valvoline DuraBlend 126 455 -17 <1.5 .125 Valvoline Synthetic 146 465 -40 <1.5 .12 15W-50 Mobil 1 170 470 -55 Mystic JT8 144 420 -20 1.7 .15 Red Line 152 503 -49 5W-50 Castrol Syntec* 175 465 <-54 .102 Chevron Supreme* 175 460 -38 1.45 Quaker State Synquest* 175 460 -50 Pennzoil Performax 176 -69 5W-40 Havoline 170 450 -40 1.4 15W-40 AMSOIL* 165 462 -49 Castrol 134 415 -15 1.3 .14 Chevron Delo 400* 134 424 -38 <1 Exxon XD3 417 -11 .9 .14 Exxon XD3 Extra 135 399 -11 .95 .13 Kendall GT-1 135 410 -25 1.0 .16 Mystic JT8 142 440 -20 1.7 .15 Quaker State* 129 420 -25 Quaker State HDX* 146 440 -30 .97 Quaker State HDX Plus* 148 420 -25 1.37 Red Line 149 495 -40 Shell Rotella w/XLA* 146 414 -32 1.0 .12 Valvoline All Fleet 140 -10 1.0 .15 Valvoline DuraBlend 137 450 -17 <1.5 .125 Valvoline Turbo 140 420 -10 .99 .13 10W-30 AMSOIL* 171 464 -54 Castrol GTX* 143 415 -32 1.07 .12 Castrol Syntec Blend* 138 415 -33 .105 Castrol Syntec* 157 455 <-54 .102 Chevron Supreme* 150 419 -27 <1 Exxon Superflo Hi Perf 135 392 -22 .70 .11 Exxon Superflo Supreme 133 400 -31 .85 .13 Havoline Formula 3 139 430 -30 1.0 Kendall GT-1 139 390 -25 1.0 .16 Mobil 1 160 450 -65 Pennzoil PLZ Turbo 140 410 -27 1.0 Quaker State* 140 410 -30 .9 Quaker State 4x4* 135 430 -35 Red Line 139 475 -40 Shell Fire and Ice* 155 410 -35 .9 .12 Shell Rotella w/XLA* 155 405 -37 1.0 .12 Shell Truck Guard* 155 405 -35 1.0 .12 Spectro Golden M.G. 175 405 -40 Unocal Super 153 428 -33 .92 .12 Valvoline All Climate 130 410 -26 1.0 .11 Valvoline Turbo 135 410 -26 .99 .13 Valvoline Race 130 410 -26 1.2 .20 Valvoline DuraBlend 142 440 -27 <1.5 .125 Valvoline Synthetic 140 450 -40 <1.5 .12 5W-30 AMSOIL* 186 478 -67 Castrol GTX* 160 410 -35 1.35 .12 Chevron Supreme* 167 410 -38 <1 Chevron Supreme Synt.* 169 468 -49 Exxon Superflow HP 148 392 -22 .70 .11 Havoline Formula 3 158 420 -40 1.0 Mobil 1 165 445 -65 Mystic JT8 161 390 -25 .95 .1 Quaker State* 155 405 -35 Quaker State Synquest* 168 450 -58 Red Line 151 455 -49 Shell Fire and Ice* 167 405 -35 .9 .12 Unocal 151 414 -33 .81 .12 Valvoline All Climate 135 405 -40 1.0 .11 Valvoline Turbo 158 405 -40 .99 .13 Valvoline DuraBlend 162 415 -38 <1.5 .125 Valvoline Synthetic 160 435 -40 <1.5 .12
