This really pisses me off

[rammie]

I agree with most all on the immigration standpoint.

With scholarships think about this: if we truly were not racist, we would give everyone (regardless of race) the same opportunity to compete for scholarships solely based on merit. So we are actually being racist by having a "black" scholarship or "Native American" scholarship instead of letting them compete freely with all others. Basically this is saying they cant compete in an open field so we have to accommodate their shortcomings by offering ethnicity based awards.

Why cant people in power see things this way, political correctness is ruining this country by lowering our standards and trying to please everyone

 

[GSequoia]

Basically this is saying they cant compete in an open field so we have to accommodate their shortcomings by offering ethnicity based awards.

No we are NOT

All of you assholes who say that black people, mexicans, native americans, etc, are obviously dumber than white people are complete and utter idiots.

You have your bullshit studies that say black people have a lower IQ and all that bullshit and it's all junk science. If you want to be fair how 'bout seeing what those white kids at the shitty inner city schools do? Oh wait, that won't fit your hateful agenda because they're doing just as bad!

Why are there scolorships for black people (many more of which have less resources than whites, face it becuase it's true) and poor people? Because it's best for all of us if we educate people. The more educated people we have out there the less issues we have.

On that note that is one reason I support free public education to everybody, legal or not. After all the Illegals are actually paying for it anyway (Public schooling comes from property taxes, they do pay property taxes in the form of rent to their landlord). Do you really want a bunch of poor teenage kids who can't go to school hanging out in front of the drugstore all day long?

Watch the racist shit. I will not hesitate to moderate the holy hell out of you.

 

[98XJSport]

Basically this is saying they cant compete in an open field so we have to accommodate their shortcomings by offering ethnicity based awards.

Why cant people in power see things this way, political correctness is ruining this country by lowering our standards and trying to please everyone

I think he was saying that by having special privleges for minorities, etc, that is like saying that they aren't equals. Its like giving them a handicap in golf, because they aren't as good so they need help to compete. I don't think he was making a racist statement, just that the policy itself is actually racist.

 

[SCW]

Watch the racist shit. I will not hesitate to moderate the holy hell out of you.

when it doesn't agree with your stand?

Nice. And exactly what causes these problems. You can't see the forest for the trees.

 

[GSequoia]

when it doesn't agree with your stand?

No. You'll find I'm about the most open minded person.

It's not the whole thread, it was just about them needing scolorships because they're somehow less intelligent, that's all.

 

[Bdiddy11]

GSequoia. As for illegals paying property tax through their house payment/rent etc... you'd be surprised at how little they actually pay due to government aides. There's a whole slew of people who pay about $50 a month in rent or mortgage due to what they get from the government.

I don't think anyone was saying that blacks/mexicans/asians whoever are dumber or have a lower IQ. But look at all the programs out there that support them as far as schooling goes. It is good for us to educate those who need it.

It's not our fault they have unfortunate circumstances. Are we the ones that put them in their position? Did we tell them where to live, what to do, where to work? Some people just don't have the drive to better their lives. So many people in the States are just fine with what they have and don't care to better their situation. But for those who do, do it and they get out of the bad situation they're in.

The reason why there's kids hanging out in front of the drug store all day is because they put themselves there. There are lots of people who still place the race card.

The fact is, people are coming into our country illegally, taking advantage of government programs and getting away with it. How about all of those homeless people who ARE LEGAL citizens who don't get squat from the government? Do they deserve it more than illegals? Well for starters they are actually LEGAL citizens and have more right than illegals. Have they done anything to get the aide or deserve it? Probably not. But for those illegals who come in and get it...That's not fair to our legal citizens who have just as bad a situation.

As for these churches... isn't that called "aiding and abbeding (sp)" a criminal? An illegal is illegal for a reason, doing something against the law.

 

[98XJSport]

No. You'll find I'm about the most open minded person.

It's not the whole thread, it was just about them needing scolorships because they're somehow less intelligent, that's all.

And by having specific scholarships, isn't that kind of what they are saying? (They not us in this thread, but those that make the scholarships) I think thats what the other guys point was :cheers:

Edit: These discussions are the best way to kill time before getting out of work on a friday. We just need a religious one next...

 

[GSequoia]

you'd be surprised at how little they actually pay due to government aides. There's a whole slew of people who pay about $50 a month in rent or mortgage due to what they get from the government.[/img]

I'm aware of governtment programs to assist in payment of rent, although I've known a lot of crackahs on that too That wasn't factoring into my arguemnt (you can only go so far with the hole thing.)

How about all of those homeless people who ARE LEGAL citizens who don't get squat from the government?

They are eligable for every government assistant program that illegal aliens are. That's the thing, they don't have special welfare programs for them. Around here a lot of the homeless are crazies or addicts and dont' have the facilities (motivation, smarts, etc) to go after assistance programs.

One thing I would find interesting would be an independant study, not from one perspective or another, looking into the tax and social security side of illegal immigration. Most of the illegal immigrants I've known actually work "legit" jobs and pay into social security, etc. Now they don't get any of that back because they're afraid of being popped if they try to take in those benefits (rightly so...). I think that would be a very intersting study but only when taken from a disinterested perspective. The problem with studies is it's easy to tweak the numbers to match an agenda. A good independant study is hard to come by.

 

[GSequoia]

And by having specific scholarships, isn't that kind of what they are saying?

Nope Trust me it's very difficult to pull yourself up out of poverty and crappy public schooling. Not all states, districts in states, and schools in districts are equal. Public education could stand for more funding and better funding execution.

I have a certain perspective of having been on the poor side growing up, particularly with about half of my childhood in a poor neighborhood and the other half in upper middle class (only becuase my family owned that home). There were scholarships I couldn't qualify for just based on my address.

These discussions are the best way to kill time before getting out of work on a friday. We just need a religious one next...

Yup. Although generally I stay out of them because a lot of times people just get all into flaming me because I have a different perspective than most of hte people on this board

 

[98XJSport]

Nope Trust me it's very difficult to pull yourself up out of poverty and crappy public schooling. Not all states, districts in states, and schools in districts are equal. Public education could stand for more funding and better funding execution.

I agree completely. But that's not the basis of such scholarships usually. It's based on race.

Wait this is about illegal immigration. Crap we went way off.

It's all the farmer's fault

 

[motorcityxj]

The lady in the article makes a good point. Yes Latins and other illegal immigrants to provide a lot to this society working the fields and hard/cheap labor that nobody else really wants to do... but c'mon, we've got enough juvies and other such people who could easily take their spots and teach them a thing or two. They reap so many benefits it's disgusting. This is the "landy of opportunity" of course, a place where dreams come true.. even sneaking into American and taking all you can get, and then some. They are those who screw it up for the rest of the people who want to come to America... the legal way.

They do the "dirty work" that honest tax paying americans with say 10 years of education at the least wont compete with illegals for. Just cause legal american citizens wont pack meat for $9.00/ hour doesnt mean "no one will do it". Business dont DECIDE what a job pays. People choose wether the job is work the risk and reward. When you can make more on wellfare than working a nasty job why work ? Why bust your ass to compete with illegals who dont pay taxes! Its supposed to work like this. A business trys to fill need, it recuits folks at a wage people start showing up and working. If its nasty and people quit every day your not paying enough. If you pay people stay. That sets the basis for the companies mark up on labor and all their fixed costs. You dont get to make up some arbatrary wage and the general american population HAS to line up or your company gets to sell out america and our economy! This REAAAAAALLY pisses me off.

The illegals in general are latin americans as a function of the unprotected border. The mexicans who come here are mostly trash who cant get a job or start a company in their own country. We used to send back people with a gimp leg, a rash, blind ness, the mange etc. Now we openly welcome fugitive felons from mexico. The mexican american economies are the largest difference in the world. 5-7 TIMES. The mexicans get "credit" for working so cheap they really dont work the dollar an hour people say. More like 7 bucks an hour. The savings is in safety stuff the business's ignore, the lawsuits, the disablitity insurance and the social sequirity taxes. Seven bucks and hour mulitplied 5 times with no taxes is $35 BUCKS AN HOUR. Here in detroit thats a good union job wage. People would literally kill you for that job. Illegals are doing it "for cheap". *facotr in $35 an hour tax free and we are talking degreed professional wages of people with experience. They are not kindly lil worker robots tha tlove working for "cheap" as the kindly mexican illegal legends want us to believe.

I was down in Nicaragua for awhile and people were always pissed at how we Americans can get a Visa so easily and just come waltzing around their country but if they want to come to the States it's really really really hard and it's through a lottery system... Why is it like that I ask them? Because there are thousands of illegals already there that's it starting to turn into Latin America.

On my way to Nicaragua I was in the Miami airport... what do you know, the L.E.D display screen that shows what time planes are arriving and other news comes out in Spanish first... same with the overhead announcements... What happend to America? The English speaking one...

Did you guys know in mexico the workers from nicaragua, honduras el salvador etc face 5-10 years in a mexican prision for doing "jobs mexicans wont do"

About the visa difference thats because no one from america WANTS TO SNEAK IN TO AMERICA. God damn nicaraguans quit yer bitching. Change your own country ... dont even have to be original... Just copy us and our constitution blantantly if its so easy. Of course you want to sneak in here and over stay your visa. Now one wants to spend more than a few months in Nicaraugua. Deee deee deeee

It's pretty sad that these churches are trying to get this wide spread across the states to help illegals. They should be arrested to like stated before. Same thing happens in a murder case... If you even know that somebody killed someone and you don't tell, and later evidence comes out that you knew and didn't do anything or tell you can be held liable, even as an accomplice. Why not the same with illegals?

I like the idea of just taking over Mexico... we can get cheaper fruit that way! And more delicious tacos.

I say we send Larry the Cableguy back and for reals take over Mexico..

Churchs and politicans are competeing as to whom can sell us out quicker and who can pander to the hispanics (i am hispanic and i am deeply offended by the pandering) and who can get rich of the ignornant heart strings of hispanic voters, and even worse the heart strings of ignorant sell out commie americans who want to give our rights to ANYONE who can hop on a boat or walk here.

My 100 % argentinian, spanish, grandpa WWII vet and proud american immigrant is rolling over in his grave, and if he was buried alive he would have drowned in his own tears over this crap.

STOP KILLING MY COUNTRY YOU ARSEHOLE politicans, liberals, and churchs.

 

[Bdiddy11]

motorcityxj... it's not just the Nicaraguans that complain about not being able to get a Visa. It's all of latin America. I'm ok with people who come into this country the right way, the legal way, and learn the national language... ENGLISH. Not Spanglish, or jarble, but English. It's sad to see someone who has lived in the states for 5+ years and still doesn't speak English! Creates more job opportunities for me being U.S. born and now speaking fluent Spanish because somebody needs a translator but it's extremely sad to see people who have lived here longer than a year and not speak the countries language. We should not have to adapt to another countries needs.

I say if you wanna come into this country without a Visa, you have to run through a 2 mile long gauntlet with snipers on either side. If you make it across alive. You get a chance to stay. Fair enough... right?

 

[5-90]

Nope Trust me it's very difficult to pull yourself up out of poverty and crappy public schooling. Not all states, districts in states, and schools in districts are equal. Public education could stand for more funding and better funding execution.

I have a certain perspective of having been on the poor side growing up, particularly with about half of my childhood in a poor neighborhood and the other half in upper middle class (only becuase my family owned that home). There were scholarships I couldn't qualify for just based on my address.


Yup. Although generally I stay out of them because a lot of times people just get all into flaming me because I have a different perspective than most of hte people on this board

Interesting. So, what's the point of the NEA, if schools vary from district to district? I thought the idea there was to standardise schools nationwide, so there would be no cachet to going to school "here" or "there."

"More funding?" Debatable. "Better funding execution?" No argument at all there. Stop paying the adminiweenies so much, pay the teachers better, and spend the rest on infrastructure, rather than administration.

It's an odd correlation that, typically, people get paid in inverse proportion to the work they actually do...

 

[RichP]

Interesting. So, what's the point of the NEA, if schools vary from district to district? I thought the idea there was to standardise schools nationwide, so there would be no cachet to going to school "here" or "there."

"More funding?" Debatable. "Better funding execution?" No argument at all there. Stop paying the adminiweenies so much, pay the teachers better, and spend the rest on infrastructure, rather than administration.

It's an odd correlation that, typically, people get paid in inverse proportion to the work they actually do...

That is very true, I never realized how much administrators like principles, VP's and supers make compared to the teachers, we are talking a 300-400% pay difference here too. The teachers spend a great deal of time just 'testing' for the feds and prepping for the tests. Then when it comes to buying things they can't put it out to the best bid either, they have to purchase thru 'approved' suppliers, result is they pay $2000 for a $500 computer and those 'approved' bidders are almost always out of state.
As far as infrastructure is concerned, we built 3 new schools here, when I divided the cost vs square footage I could have built an office building in manhattan and still paid less per sq/ft. The contracts went to out of state companies that would not hire local labor or use local suppliers as they were all 'unqualified', the workers came from texas as did the supplies, I just find it hard to believe that it was cheaper to buy and ship the building materials from out west than to purchase it here.
While I am all for keeping your stuff private I do believe that when you work or deal with public funds your financial records need to be an open book.

 

[motorcityxj]

motorcityxj... it's not just the Nicaraguans that complain about not being able to get a Visa. It's all of latin America. I'm ok with people who come into this country the right way, the legal way, and learn the national language... ENGLISH. Not Spanglish, or jarble, but English. It's sad to see someone who has lived in the states for 5+ years and still doesn't speak English! Creates more job opportunities for me being U.S. born and now speaking fluent Spanish because somebody needs a translator but it's extremely sad to see people who have lived here longer than a year and not speak the countries language. We should not have to adapt to another countries needs.

I say if you wanna come into this country without a Visa, you have to run through a 2 mile long gauntlet with snipers on either side. If you make it across alive. You get a chance to stay. Fair enough... right?

I like the guantlet. Still dont want them to stay. I want mine fields, and dr. evil sharks with lasers on their heads.

We need a national movement to make english the offical national language. We make everythign just to easy. The liberals want to "believe" people will do whats right despite the fact their first act in bettering them selves is a crime. I know they are gonna do WHATS EASIEST. We need to eliminate the easy part.

People here illegally will never be able to get citizenship or even visit.

No overstaying visa.

The penality for getting busted with fake ids has to be tens of thousands of dollars and you can never gain citizenship if you are convicted of fake id posession.

The allure of Jobs. We need to penalize the workers and the business that seek them out. We have underocer cops who buy drugs, we need fake illegals that try to get jobs, are never asked for paper work, are paid cash, and all laws are dismissed. These blantant abusive business need to be run out of business. I am a business owner and i am pro business, but there guys are driving down wages and they are the gold at the end of the rainbow for the illegals. There is nothign to fear for honest businessmen. The fines need to pay for many agents and one incident the fine has to outweight the "savings" of an illegal over the period of a year. I think about 50 grand per incident ought to nip the problem in the bud in a hurry. If its a $1,500 fine you play the odds. Needs to really sting when you get busted. Once busted you are forever involved in regualr audits of your employees, screening and you have to put up money BEFORE hand to ensure when you get your next fine you dont close up shop. The premeptive fine would be held in escrow.

We need bounties on illegals and rewards for turning them in. Cops hospitals and agengencies. Right now there is zero incentive, and often the public servants hands are tied.

No driving with out speaking and writting english. I am sick of cops having to be bi lingual or people thinking they get to go through life and never have to answer to anyone cause they are ignorant pompous non english speakers. If you want to come here you need to speak english. This is how you distinguish your self from illegals. Anyone who doesnt speak good english can be presumed to be illegal, and suffer the backlash and hassles involved.

Lastly to many government agencies have semingly endless monies. Answer is agencies that think they need to serve illegals need to have their funding decimated because times are tough and they are obviously drownding in money. Agency heads need to see their pay, benefits and pension suffer as the result of illegals. I am sick of "leaders" and public servant adminstratiors being so insulated. Nothing makes them suffer, and infact serving illegals makes their budget larger often, and administrators paid more. Total crap.

 

[Cherokid]

After all the Illegals are actually paying for it anyway (Public schooling comes from property taxes, they do pay property taxes in the form of rent to their landlord).

I like some of your ideas but anyone on sec 8, or welfare isn't paying full rent.

 

[5-90]

Lastly to many government agencies have semingly endless monies. Answer is agencies that think they need to serve illegals need to have their funding decimated because times are tough and they are obviously drownding in money.

I'll disagree with you on this one point - but I don't fault you for misstating it. It's another example of "redefinition by common usage" that I'm always fighting...

"Decimation" refers to a reduction in force (or quantity) be precisely one-tenth - no more, and no less. The word comes down from the Holy Roman Empire, as it was a means of grave discipline (have the unit line up in ranks of ten, and kill one man in every rank.)

Reducing the budget of some of these departments by one-tenth won't be enough - I'm thinking more along the lines of half.

 

[WaXJ_Skier]

about the whole race based scholarships, I don't have a problem with them if they are coming from and organization that is not recieveing any government funding. For example if were to offer a scholarship I don't think it would be going to someone who didn't own an XJ. Selecting someone who owns an xj ould be supporting our own causes. Private organizations should do that IMO. It's when it comes to spending government money that I have a problem with any sort of preference to anything but the numbers.

 

[XJEEPER]

SPOBI!!!!! Proof please? I see 2 Federal felonies per each instance, which should be ample reason for swift deportation. Study shmuddy, uphold the LAWS!!!!

Alien invasions should be treated as such, swiftly and with force.......and why is the ACLU allowed to sue US Law Enforcement officers for up holding our laws and apprehending invading aliens? They are not Americans, their actions are not Civil and therefore should not be entitled to any US Liberties.......

I'm tired of hearing politicians and judges talk out their butt. Do the will of the people, uphold the laws, or you're fired.......just like a real job.:rtm:

And G, save the censorship threats and racism comments for an applicable thread.


Oh, here's some light reading that should shed some light on why our politicians and the big businesses that bribe them.....("lobby" is too PC, of which I am not) are in no rush to secure our borders and stop hiring aliens, offending our Northern and Southern neighbors.......if you think it won't happen or can't happen, reference the EU. The US general citizen population have little to gain, but much to lose.

http://www.nascocorridor.com/index.htm

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=15017

http://www.amerocurrency.com/SPPprogram.html

 

[RichP]

SPOBI!!!!! Proof please? I see 2 Federal felonies per each instance, which should be ample reason for swift deportation. Study shmuddy, uphold the LAWS!!!!

Alien invasions should be treated as such, swiftly and with force.......and why is the ACLU allowed to sue US Law Enforcement officers for up holding our laws and apprehending invading aliens? They are not Americans, their actions are not Civil and therefore should not be entitled to any US Liberties.......

I'm tired of hearing politicians and judges talk out their butt. Do the will of the people, uphold the laws, or you're fired.......just like a real job.:rtm:

And G, save the censorship threats and racism comments for an applicable thread.

Actually they do pay taxes, only not into their own accounts, they pay them into yours, mine and everybody elses who has a legit SS#, the challenge to the govt is to split the correct take from the illegal side and they do a good job of it. My SS# was used a few times by illegals and when I got my statement at the end of the year that SS sends out it was like 'wow', where'd that extra $5K come from... I got an ammended one two weeks later sans the extra $5k. To the govt this is found money and goes into the general fund, $13 billion a year comes to mind in 2005. There was actually a GSA or Treasury or IRS report on it on one of the govt web sites that I found thru a news article, it was broken link a few weeks later, gee I wonder why :dunno: . I actually don't know how often my SS# was used because I maxed out the yearly for 8 years and only had SS taken out for about 7 months.