teraflex bar pin eliminators

[citRon]

I've never understood how rotating the upper end 90 degrees is bad. Anyone know this to be true. There are a few companies making this type of BPE, I wouldn't think they'd be selling if they screwed up the shocks.

just to report back- I emailed Monroe -since I did the rocklizard 'commanche rear shock mod' with sensa-tracs, and the tech confirmed that rotating the eye 90 degrees could break the shock when flexed. so it is bad. I'll be fabbing up some new bpe's!

 

[John90XJ]

Exactly. And when only one half of the shock is turned 90*, the "precision tapered grooves" no long line up and you fubar your shock.

The grooves appear to be in the body, not in the piston. The piston would be free to rotate, the groove remains static.

 

[Timber]

They are indeed in the body, and the piston has a corresponding niche in it to mate with the body grooves.

 

[John90XJ]

They are indeed in the body, and the piston has a corresponding niche in it to mate with the body grooves.

Can you show me where you found that? I guess I missed that piece. If that's the case, I wonder how much flexibility there is in mounting them.

 

[Timber]

Here's the best I can produce for you, since I don't have my e-mails with Monroe from about three years ago. http://www.monroe.com/tech_support/tec_shockabsorbers.asp Go down to "Twin Tube--PSD Design."

 

[John90XJ]

Here's the best I can produce for you, since I don't have my e-mails with Monroe from about three years ago. http://www.monroe.com/tech_support/tec_shockabsorbers.asp Go down to "Twin Tube--PSD Design."

I included that same section in one of my above posts. I just didn't see anything referencing the groove or index point on the piston as you've described. That doesn't means it's not there but it seems like it would be an engineering issue if you can't control the way the shock is actually mounted and then expect that a variation would render the shock useless. Seems the piston would remain the same and the cylinder would be the item modified.

 

[Timber]

Why would the shock manufacturer have to control the way the shocks are mounted? They make dozens of different shocks specifically for different models of vehicles. I can't imagine any shock manufacturer, OEM, OEM replacement, or other aftermarket, counting on the end users messing with the direction of the shock mounts.

 

[John90XJ]

Why would the shock manufacturer have to control the way the shocks are mounted? They make dozens of different shocks specifically for different models of vehicles. I can't imagine any shock manufacturer, OEM, OEM replacement, or other aftermarket, counting on the end users messing with the direction of the shock mounts.

You're serious?

People on this board mount stuff all kinds of different ways in custom applications.

I just can't believe a manufacturer would have the technology you describe without taking into account the unknown variables of mounting them.

I guess we disagree on this.

 

[RCP Phx]

Shock shafts have no relationship(rotation wise since they can spin) to the shock body.The issue here is the relationship of the shock body's or shock stem mount to the direction of flex!

 

[Timber]

You're serious?

People on this board mount stuff all kinds of different ways in custom applications.

I just can't believe a manufacturer would have the technology you describe without taking into account the unknown variables of mounting them.

I guess we disagree on this.

Yes, I'm serious. I know people mount things all different sorts of ways; however, it's generally up to them to mount things "correctly" or at least in ways that work without damaging their gear.

Manufacturers have all sorts of tech., but when the majority of their customers (I'm thinking mainly of Monroe here; Rancho is considered Tenneco's aftermarket brand) will never even touch the products, let alone alter the mounts for them, they don't generally need to consider such things as we're discussing.

How do I know some of this? My father-in-law is a Jeep engineer here in Toledo, and we've discussed all sorts of Jeep-related things over the fourteen years I've known him. Manufacturers have all sorts of technology at their disposal, but the guys responsible for designing the gear have to look mainly at the end user and price. Sucks, but it's the truth.

EDITED for spelling and a bit o' clarity.

One more EDIT--As far as manufacturers accounting for variables, I guess I thought I addressed that earlier by stating that they make different versions of shocks for different vehicles. In other words, the variables they account for are those variable dimensions/factors (weight, ride height, mounting type) from one make and model to another. Keep in mind that the most the average person modifies his vehicle is putting on a sticker or installing a new radio (I have no facts about this; I'm making a point). Even when people who know me find out what I've done to my Jeep, they're surprised. This about a guy who has a 12v cigarette lighter and cupholder built into his computer!

 

[Timber]

Actually, I just thought of something. I have a blown SensaTrac in my garage. If I'm not too loopy from cheap beer later, I'll cut it open and take a look. Pics, of course, will follow.

 

[John90XJ]

Actually, I just thought of something. I have a blown SensaTrac in my garage. If I'm not too loopy from cheap beer later, I'll cut it open and take a look. Pics, of course, will follow.

That would be cool.

I guess my basic thought is this. Why would the manufacturer over complicate the design by requiring alignment of specific internal components? Why not just make a groove in the tube and not care what position the piston is in? Froma manufacturing standpoint it's an added step in the process that doesn't appear to add any value.

So if you tear it apart, I'd be really curious to see what you find.

 

[Timber]

Okay. Here we go. I have to say, I'm quite shocked (no pun intended). I think everyone who's bought these shocks has been duped to a certain extent. There are no grooves in the shocks' bodies whatsoever, unless they are so small as to be unseen by the human eye.

 

[Timber]

In the sixth picture, there is what appears as a stripe. I will use my calipers to try to determine what, if any, difference there is between that and the rest of the circumference of the internal shock body.

 

[Love2Ride450]

The reason it isn't the best idea to do a 90*turn type bpe is that the stock orientation of the upper mount is such that it allows the shock to rotate on it's upper mount in a side to side motion. When the axle moves up and down, if one side is moving higher while the other is lower (when you are articulating) the lower shock mount will deflect to one side or the other. The stock shock mount allows rotation in this direction. When you change the mounting 90* you are now forcing the bushing to compress in order to achieve this movement. The shock would, however, easily move in a front to back motion. (not necessary) You may never notice the difference with that type of bpe, especially if you don't ever flex your jeep. It just isn't ideal. If I were going to build some bpe's I would do it like the jks.

Of course it doesn't matter to the shock's internals which way the shaft is "clocked". Think of the front shocks, with the threaded stud, which undoubtedly will turn as you try to tighten them. When that happens you don't go "Oh shit, I need to buy new shocks, there is no way I'll ever get these to line up with the grooves anymore"

 

[John90XJ]

In the sixth picture, there is what appears as a stripe. I will use my calipers to try to determine what, if any, difference there is between that and the rest of the circumference of the internal shock body.

I'm guessing that's the weld line where the tube is brought together.

 

[John90XJ]

You may never notice the difference with that type of bpe, especially if you don't ever flex your jeep. It just isn't ideal. If I were going to build some bpe's I would do it like the jks.

While it may not be ideal, my results have shown that it might be such a minor issue as to be non-existent.

I'm all for optimizing performance but this is one of those areas where getting a problem solved (eliminating the bar pin) for free is enough to far outweigh the resulting issue.

My rig spends virtually 100% of its time off-road or on the way to being off-road. It functions really well.

 

[Timber]

I'm guessing that's the weld line where the tube is brought together.

Yep, it is. I had to go to bed last night. Too much beer and I had to work this morning anyway. I did go back outside this morning and check that--didn't even need to get the caliper out. I could tell it was the tube's weld line right away. So, evidently Monroe is putting out some bogus info. regarding these "precision" grooves. I can see how the piston ring inside is different than many others, but I'm rather disappointed in their product description. Not to mention that I was outright lied to about it by e-mails from them years ago.

 

[ECKSJAY]

While it may not be ideal, my results have shown that it might be such a minor issue as to be non-existent.

I'm all for optimizing performance but this is one of those areas where getting a problem solved (eliminating the bar pin) for free is enough to far outweigh the resulting issue.

My rig spends virtually 100% of its time off-road or on the way to being off-road. It functions really well.

Hey John, after my old rear shocks being on for years with that setup, I finally started getting a clunk from worn bushings. I knew it was binding up when I'd flex because of the bushing orientation, but you're right about street performance. Doesn't really matter there. The guy before you explained the reason for the orientation very well. One 'free'-ish fix for using that swaybar bracket on the top is to find a set of TJ lower brackets that have been cut off the axle tube. Those will rotate the lower mount 90* as well as move them UP (if you desire).

But that whole 'misalignment of the grooves in the shock body' is utter bullshit.

 

[John90XJ]

Yep, it is. I had to go to bed last night. Too much beer and I had to work this morning anyway. I did go back outside this morning and check that--didn't even need to get the caliper out. I could tell it was the tube's weld line right away. So, evidently Monroe is putting out some bogus info. regarding these "precision" grooves. I can see how the piston ring inside is different than many others, but I'm rather disappointed in their product description. Not to mention that I was outright lied to about it by e-mails from them years ago.

Looking at your photos and the description from the Monroe website, you might find grooves at the opposite end from where you cut the shock open. It looks like you cut open the end where the shaft enters the body. The website indicates the grooves are only in the small section where the piston would ride during normal use and then it goes to a smooth body when the shock is out of that normal position.

Slice that body from end to end and you might find a section that is a few inches long with a little groove in it.