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Steering upgrade for my 96 classic DD

johnnyc said:
Well, that makes no sense. A ZJ tie rod assembly consists of two tie rod ends (a long one and a short one) and an adjusting sleeve, similar to the one on the drag link. If you replace the tie rod ends, as you suggest, you're basically replacing the entire assembly, minus the adjusting sleeve.

I just went the ZJ route because I had a bad experience with an aftermarket setup (twice). I decided to go with a reliable factory-like tie rod assembly, which is fine for my purposes, which are similar to the OP's.
Click to expand...

Yeah, sorry... i was half asleep last night... I was thinking of ummm... I gor nothing. LoL.
 
I had no idea the track bar and the elevation of the pitman had to work togeother. Thanks for that tip, it totally makes sense now. I dealt with a shitty terrifying death wobble before I got the adjustable track bar, and I desperately don't want that to be an issue again.

I think I'm leaning this way....

http://www.ironrockoffroad.com/Merc...=IROR&Product_Code=IR-TOTKS&Category_Code=XST

I'm by no means poor and can totally justify spending the money on this as long as there will be no adverse side effects.

Also the T-bird coils are closer to 4" of lift as opposed to the 3" I stated earlier.
 
This is just my standard speech on steering, and certainly no offense meant to Iron Rock Offroad (I do like most of their products and have used some of them)
but I wouldn't go with that IRO kit. No way, no how. Here's why:
It has you drill out the knuckles for 5/8" bolts. On the driver's side... fine. It's single shear but it's a 5/8" bolt, too, so... fine.
On the passenger's side, you have *two* single shear heims that are stressing the bolt *in opposite directions*.
It has become "common sense" that the friction produced by clamping the heim joint to the knuckle is what carries the load
EDIT Which is mostly true but in highly stressed joints, like track bars and steering, it's not uncommon to see single shear mounts get wallowed out with time & use. Heck, even the factory double-shear track bar mount will wallow badly over time. I've heard a few reports already of the IRO kit wallowing out knuckles & becoming a major PITA to keep steering tight / safe. I suspect it's a matter of time until that's the conventional wisdom about the kit or about that style of steering.

JCR, Ruffstuff and Serious Offroad (and many more) sell "1 ton" steering kits that are all, pretty much, the same. On an XJ Dana 30, none of them are a great choice. The drag link frequently intercepts the tie rod at too steep an angle and too much of the steering force is turned into vertical force, causing the tie rod to roll before pushing / pulling the tires around. This creates a dead spot and there is no long-lasting solution for this problem. It just isn't well suited to most XJs (though it can work very well on some custom setups)
The Rusty's Tie rod, the Currie setup and the ZJ tie rod will all work about equally well for daily driving. Stength and price would both go Currie, Rusty's then ZJ.
OK, time to watch the Daily Show and get some news. Hope this helps and that I haven't had too many brain farts along the way, here.
 
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Nope, the kit you linked to has the same geometry issues that the JCR / Ruffstuff et al kits do.
I'd put on the Rusty's Tierod, $99. It's beefy & uses tie rod ends that should be easy enough to find / replace when the time comes. Nothing really special about it, it's just a heavier duty piece than the XJ came with.
 
Nope, the kit you linked to has the same geometry issues that the JCR / Ruffstuff et al kits do.
I'd put on the Rusty's Tierod, $99. It's beefy & uses tie rod ends that should be easy enough to find / replace when the time comes. Nothing really special about it, it's just a heavier duty piece than the XJ came with.
 
yossarian19 said:
Nope, the kit you linked to has the same geometry issues that the JCR / Ruffstuff et al kits do.
I'd put on the Rusty's Tierod, $99. It's beefy & uses tie rod ends that should be easy enough to find / replace when the time comes. Nothing really special about it, it's just a heavier duty piece than the XJ came with.
Click to expand...

So the rustys kit has worse angles than a stock ZJ setup? Or my current stock setup?
 
yossarian19 said:
not uncommon to see single shear mounts get wallowed out with time & use. Heck, even the factory double-shear track bar mount will wallow badly over time. I've heard a few reports already of the IRO kit wallowing out knuckles & becoming a major PITA to keep steering tight / safe. I suspect it's a matter of time until that's the conventional wisdom about the kit or about that style of steering.
Click to expand...

this is because the bolts are way too small for the higher stresses that we put on them. The base version of the IRO kit uses 1/2" bolts it says, which just can't carry the torque required to keep from moving when repeatedly put under high stress. A bigger Heim kit with 3/4" bolts solves that issue, particularly when backed up with double nutting or deformed thread nuts. A 3/4" grade 8 bolt gets torqued to 370 lb ft., which gives you over 30k lbs of clamping load. Compare that to a 1/2" bolt which gets torqued to just over 100 lb ft giving you about 13k lbs of clamping load and the reason that the smaller single shear bolts don't hold up is obvious. If you're upgrading steering you should be upgrading your hardware as well anyway.

FWIW the 5/8" bolt upgrade still only gets you to about 200 lb ft torque so that's still just barely over half the torque of a 3/4" bolt.
 
Let me ask this one more time, the Rusty's tie rod conversion would not be an upgrade over the ZJ setup? Because the angles are worse than the ZJ?
 
well, there are two products Rusty's is selling. The tie rod "conversion", which has one bar that goes knuckle to knuckle and one that goes pitman arm to knuckle, is going to suffer from bad geometry. It is, however, a strength upgrade.
The Rusty's tie rod (NOT conversion, just the tie rod) is functionally the same as the ZJ tie rod, just perhaps stronger.

But lets step back from "which part" and get to "Why are you upgrading your steering?"
What is it you are trying to accomplish here?
If you are just unhappy with the car's handling... changing your tie rod out for something more HD isn't likely to fix it.
 
My cherokee is nearly 20 years old, as far as I can tell all my steering is factory original. At a minimum they need to be replaced, I figured while I'm at it why not upgrade.

It doesn't handle terrible right now, it feels a bit spongy when you first turn the wheel. But it's certainly manageable. If I could take out that initial dead spot and upgrade strength I'd be happy.

Like I said I don't rock crawl so a 1 ton upgrade isn't required, but something better that stock has to exist that will accomplish my goal.
 
I'd buy a fresh XJ drag link + ZJ tie rod. It will do everything you want from a steering linkage with no new side effects and no welding / major surgery to make it work.
Check your steering box for slop, too, and make sure no part of your track bar moves when an assistant. Each of those can contribute dead spot as well.
 
I've never had a build thread so I'm going to arbitrarily throw some picks in this thread.

Pulled the sway bar link and tested the flex of my V8 T-bird coils, DIY mid length LCA's and FULL S-10 leaf pack.







Didn't have a higher mound to crawl up on, not bad for 150$ in junkyard parts (and 380$ of bilstien shocks)
 
:banghead:

the rustys track bar is 1.5x.25 DOM. quarter. wall. DOM. far superior to the ZJ tie rod. it also uses the stock TREs, which are cheap, that it sounds like you need to replace.

the ZJ one is garbage. ive bent quite a few. im a believer that the bends in it are a stress riser. and you will also need an adjuster and a second TRE. driving up costs...

there are manufacturers that sell a DOM replacement for the tie rod that still utilize the stock TREs that are cheaper than rustys. shop around. if you need to replace the tie rod itself, this is (IMO) a better option than buying a ZJ tie rod both for strength and price as you can get the aftermarket tie rod and two (2) TREs for the price of the ZJ tie rod, adjuster, and TRE.

if the drag link is bad and need in replacing, a factory replacement is fine. they are far less prone to bending. both the ZJ tie rod and an aftermarket one will bolt in to a stock drag link.

if you need to replace the steering entirely, take a look at the currie stuff. id stick with either factory steering with an upgraded tie rod, or currie. im not a fan of inverted T. if steering is this tough of a concept, the issues that arise with upgrading to a crossover style steering (aka inverted T) will be a headache.
 
all the downsides of inverted t that I experienced were street driveability issues. For a trail jeep it would be fine I think, but for someone looking for driving comfort inverted t is probably the worst choice
 
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