Socal Smog fail.

[markw]

I'm thinking that California is squeezing older cars by lowering the limits. We've seen this with Lou's and one of my coworkers. Correspondance with carb from my coworker got this:

*From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
*Sent:* Friday, August 08, 2008 10:28 AM
*To:*
*Cc:* [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [Fwd: Smog test limits ?]




Dear Mr. xxxxxxx,

The NOX cutpoints were tightened by 30 % and were implemented in three phases
between 10/30/2002 and 1/8/2003, but the HC limits have not been changed since
2001. See the attached cutpoints summary for details. However, a more exact
determination could be made based on vehicle specific info such as make, model
year and VIN.

Sincerely,

Kwok Lai
916-255-3272

 

[silverslk]

The NOX cutpoints were tightened by 30 % and were implemented in three phases
between 10/30/2002 and 1/8/2003,

3 phases over 2 months.......haha. What good did that do? Should have just drpped them all at once (pretty much what they did).

 

[markw]

Problem is, if they're dropping them below what was originally required for that make/model/type/year vehicle. Then that's making it retroactive, so even if your car meets the standards for when it was made, they're going to outlaw it because they changed the standards after it was made and it won't meet the new standards. There's already a big stink about this with construction equipment with carb.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law

 

[GrimmJeeper]

There's already a big stink about this with construction equipment with carb.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law

this is really happening. a customer of mine is being forced to close his buisness (industrial generator rental) because of the CARB regulations changing.

sucks.

 

[xcm]

have any renix era guys failed on the gas tank pressurization part of the test yet? thats a fun surprise!

 

[GrimmJeeper]

have any renix era guys failed on the gas tank pressurization part of the test yet? thats a fun surprise!

they didnt pressure test my manche.. should they have??? :eyes:

 

[scottmcneal]

Test, whats that? Never been there or done that with the xj...

 

[MisterFRjunior]

.............if this was already posted the bs drama made me just start skipping it

Me too.
Anyways, I do smogs and I've noticed that 4.0s sure can be a smog pain.
I had one that had ok HC and CO but 600-700 nox. A bit too high. Although even though it was 100 or so points over the limit, it actually was quite a bit higher than it should be. When that (and your) vehicle was new, (and for a while after new) it nox was probably less than 100. It should be way under the limit. So anyhow, I poked a hole just ahead of the cat and checked the emission there and after the cat and found the cat was not dropping the nox more than about 500 points. I've found that a good cat will drop it 1500 - 3000 points. I decided it needed a cat. We got a cat from the parts store , had the muffler guy across the street put it on and voila!! nox went UP to 1000. Checked ahead of the cat-- it wasn't dropping hardly at all. Long story short (sort of), new O2 sensor didn't work, the guy went to another muffler shop, that guy said he needed this woopty doo high flow cat and he came back and the nox was 200 or less. Moral of the story ..... Jeeps are tough on cats and very picky with what you put on. If you have no vac leaks or dirty injectors, you probably need a GOOD QUALITY CAT.

 

[xcm]

they didnt pressure test my manche.. should they have??? :eyes:

i thought this was a new law...? anything older then 95 they put a pressure testing gas cap on??? am i going crazy? my dads mj failed it, and it took us forever to get it smogged finally (good luck finding a smog place open sundays!)

am i going crazy?

 

[GrimmJeeper]

i heard the same thing, dont know if its in effect yet or not, i didnt get the evap test on my 95 XJ either. :dunno:

 

[Leep]

i heard the same thing, dont know if its in effect yet or not, i didnt get the evap test on my 95 XJ either. :dunno:

When I had my YJ smogged in may of this year they did the tank pressure test. So some areas may have implemented it or they have a drop dead date.

 

[Darky]

This makes me worry about when I finally get my XJ fixed and attempt to smog it...I just got it running again (w/33s installed finally!) but it's not smogged (check engine light)...

 

[FELIX]

Not sure if you have solved your trouble yet, but did you have to go to a "Test Only" station? If your renewal states "Test Only", there is a program that you pay $100 & the state pays up to $500 to get it to pass. I have done this 2x's in a row & both times they put a new cat on & retested & it passed. Check your renewal for that "Test Only" & see if you can get the state to pay for it. Oh & yes anything 95 & old should have the nitrogen test, where they fill your gas tank up with nitrogen & see if it loses pressure over a specified time.

Best of luck & Keep fighting the smog Nazi's

 

[GrimmJeeper]

yep i do get the test only requirement... every freakin time. i'll check into that, thanks :cheers:

 

[Darky]

I got that last time too. I may have to see if that would apply towards the check engine light failure.

 

[Leep]

yep i do get the test only requirement... every freakin time. i'll check into that, thanks :cheers:

Mike, once it fails at a test only place you can take it to a test and repair. I beleive at a test and repair facility they can see that you need a smog but the test requirements wont show up until it fails at a test only.

Someone correct me if I am wrong.

 

[markw]

this is really happening. a customer of mine is being forced to close his buisness (industrial generator rental) because of the CARB regulations changing.

sucks.

My neighbor is bent about it, they want him to retrofit some of his 20 yo equipment that runs fine. The whole industry is pissed, and with the gerrymandering to keep these boneheads in power, nothing is going to change. We need to split cali in two, right at the northern border of Pendelton.

Oh, fwiw, when I got my 91, I threw plugs/wires/cap/rotor on it in 2005. Had to smog it this year and I just drove it in and it passed. Cat has all sorts of dents in it, and the guy was just shaking his head.

 

[GauchoMD]

Me too.
Anyways, I do smogs and I've noticed that 4.0s sure can be a smog pain.
I had one that had ok HC and CO but 600-700 nox. A bit too high. Although even though it was 100 or so points over the limit, it actually was quite a bit higher than it should be. When that (and your) vehicle was new, (and for a while after new) it nox was probably less than 100. It should be way under the limit. So anyhow, I poked a hole just ahead of the cat and checked the emission there and after the cat and found the cat was not dropping the nox more than about 500 points. I've found that a good cat will drop it 1500 - 3000 points. I decided it needed a cat. We got a cat from the parts store , had the muffler guy across the street put it on and voila!! nox went UP to 1000. Checked ahead of the cat-- it wasn't dropping hardly at all. Long story short (sort of), new O2 sensor didn't work, the guy went to another muffler shop, that guy said he needed this woopty doo high flow cat and he came back and the nox was 200 or less. Moral of the story ..... Jeeps are tough on cats and very picky with what you put on. If you have no vac leaks or dirty injectors, you probably need a GOOD QUALITY CAT.

Sweet, I bought a Magnaflow Cat last year, hopefully that'll be all I need to pass my smog on Friday. :cheers:

 

[jrowell]

Not sure if you have solved your trouble yet, but did you have to go to a "Test Only" station? If your renewal states "Test Only", there is a program that you pay $100 & the state pays up to $500 to get it to pass. I have done this 2x's in a row & both times they put a new cat on & retested & it passed. Check your renewal for that "Test Only" & see if you can get the state to pay for it. Oh & yes anything 95 & old should have the nitrogen test, where they fill your gas tank up with nitrogen & see if it loses pressure over a specified time.

Best of luck & Keep fighting the smog Nazi's

x2 on this. Just got my 87 repaired. They replaced a bunch of junk. Only cost me $100, state paid almost four hundred. I'm not convinced the smog shop didn't inflate the repair to milk the state...

 

[markw]

My cat was a new walker with 1 wheeling trip and a big dent in the heat shield. High NOX is combustion chamber temps. Do a tune up and go 1 heat range colder on the plugs, should decrease the NOX, but then you fail on HC's. Seriously, if it hasn't been tuned in a few years, that's all it might need.