SCCA MJ Suspension SetUp?

[sharq]

Not sure where he got the info but here it is.

" After researching more about the front axle modifications the Archer brothers used successfully racing the Jeep Comanche in the SCCA Truck Challenge series we found that they actually bent the front axle." http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/2010-race-jeep-cherokee-build/27247/page1/

 

[sharq]

"I can settle this all right here....right now..
I emailed Mr. John Archer.... here is his response.

"Well im glad to here someone is still active with the old jeeps. they were the stock axles that we slightly modified to get more camber in them. and we ran with bilstein shocks and custom eibach springs. and also custom fiberglass rear leif springs. we do still have some misc jeep parts left over and would love to get them sold off. if you or anyone you no would be interested please contact me at 218-727-4806

Thanks again
John Archer
[email protected]""
http://www.cherokeetalk.com/forum/f23/scca-truck-series-7964/

 

[sharq]

"Compact pickups with sports-car abilities have always intrigued me since I drove the Archer Brothers’ Jeep Comanche at Willow Springs in the early ‘90s. The truck was a top threat in the SCCA Racetruck Challenge road-racing series that had started about three years earlier. “They handle better than a Vette,” said Bobby Archer, holding the door open for me as I squeezed into the OMP seat and adjusted my helmet. After a few laps I couldn’t really disagree with the handling in the turns but the wimpy 4-cylinder engine certainly would not have kept pace with the Vette over the entire 2.5-mile course."
http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129530

 

[sharq]

"SCCA Racetrucks were 2wd, on an oval course, racing against 'better handling' IFS trucks, and the Jeeps kicked ass!

The 2wd beam axles were bent for negative camber of 2.5*, control arms bushings were swapped for Heim joints, Bilstein shocks, and fiberglass rear leafs, with rear anti sway bars used out back.

A full rollcage extended into the engine compartment, and 15 gallon fuel cells was used in the bed.

They used the stock AX5 5spds, and D35 rears(!), with 4.10, or 4.56 gears.
Race weight was 2925lbs. Weight was added in the rear to reach this weight."
http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260752

 

[GSequoia]

"Well im glad to here someone is still active with the old jeeps. they were the stock axles that we slightly modified to get more camber in them. and we ran with bilstein shocks and custom eibach springs. and also custom fiberglass rear leif springs. we do still have some misc jeep parts left over and would love to get them sold off. if you or anyone you no would be interested please contact me at 218-727-4806

Paging Team Petty Cash, paging Team Petty Cash, please pick up the white courtesy phone.

 

[sharq]

Paging Team Petty Cash, paging Team Petty Cash, please pick up the white courtesy phone.

Ive talked to one of the petty cash guys on facebook. he said they are happy with how their stock suspension handles on the track. theyre interested in "more power and reliability".

 

[sharq]

Ive come to realize that information on the trucks or even this race series is very hard to come by on the net. Theres nothing on the SCCA site. I cant even find results from the races. This was after all before the time of the internet. It just surprises me how little documentation i can find.

I emailed Mark Windecker. He's the guy with the site with all the pictures. He doesnt have any he's not sharing there. He was shooting for Porsche mag at the time so it wasnt his focus.

Here's a nice little article from the LA Times in '88.
http://articles.latimes.com/1988-05-12/sports/sp-3975_1_stock-car

 

[IXNAYXJ]

Paging Team Petty Cash, paging Team Petty Cash, please pick up the white courtesy phone.

I spoke with one of their engineers and John Archer early this summer and was somewhat blown off; we spoke once and he said he'd call me back with more info on what exactly they had but never did. At the time, he said they might have some stuff laying around, possibly the rear leafs (which would obviously not help me due to the length), but the shocks and springs for the front had been thrown away a while ago.

I've dialed in camber by using off-set ball joints, and don't need anything more extreme. The Archers were doing 30 minute sprint races, we run 24 hours...what worked for them isn't really ideal for us. I've got custom-valved Bilstein shocks, and just found a company who will build me some custom road race coils (more to follow once I get that figured out). I'd still like to talk to the Archers, but like I said, I kind of got the cold shoulder. Maybe I'll try them again this week.

-Matt

 

[IXNAYXJ]

Ive talked to one of the petty cash guys on facebook. he said they are happy with how their stock suspension handles on the track. theyre interested in "more power and reliability".

And we're still searching...killed two 4.0s last weekend at Sears Point. Possible solution in the works though...

-Matt

 

[REDXJ4FUN]

"I can settle this all right here....right now..
I emailed Mr. John Archer.... here is his response.

"Well im glad to here someone is still active with the old jeeps. they were the stock axles that we slightly modified to get more camber in them. and we ran with bilstein shocks and custom eibach springs. and also custom fiberglass rear leif springs. we do still have some misc jeep parts left over and would love to get them sold off. if you or anyowwne you no would be interested please contact me at 218-727-4806

Thanks again
John Archer
[email protected]""
http://www.cherokeetalk.com/forum/f23/scca-truck-series-7964/

Wow you got more out of them than I did years ago

 

[sharq]

And we're still searching...killed two 4.0s last weekend at Sears Point. Possible solution in the works though...

-Matt

What's in the works??

Do you have a blog or forum thread that you update so I can follow the team? Your website sucks btw and the Facebook page isn't updated very often. I do enjoy the YouTube channel however. Just ordered my 430 hat this week!

 

[sharq]

Here's a question. How in the hell were these solid axle trucks able to handle so much better than their IFS competition? This defies conventional thought, no?

 

[IXNAYXJ]

What's in the works??

Can't say yet, several irons in the fire. This week (post SEMA) will reveal a lot. Bear with us.

Do you have a blog or forum thread that you update so I can follow the team?

Yes, as a matter of fact we do have a blog. You can visit it here: Petty Cash Blog

Your website sucks btw and the Facebook page isn't updated very often. I do enjoy the YouTube channel however. Just ordered my 430 hat this week!

a) Thanks for your frank evaluation of our website. We know it sucks, trust me. We've gone through three volunteers who all have promised to make it better. Yet, here we are.

b) Our Facebook Page is the majority of our visibility. I'm not sure what you're talking about on this one, we see huge numbers of visits to our page. As in ~270k since the first of this year, including several major manufacturers.

c) I'm glad you enjoy our videos of a Jeep blowing the doors off BMWs and Porsches as much as we enjoy doing it.

d) Thanks for your order! We're working on a Member discount program.

With the addition of the King of the Hammers race car, more of my time will be spent updating our blog, and massive changes are coming for the website. Thanks for bearing with us!

-Matt

 

[IXNAYXJ]

Here's a question. How in the hell were these solid axle trucks able to handle so much better than their IFS competition? This defies conventional thought, no?

Yes and no.

Believe me, we've asked ourselves the same questions. There's nothing wrong with a solid axle (look at the current Mustang killing M3s and 370Zs), as long as the pavement is even. We rely on a superior tire (Falkens), brakes (Savvy/Black Magic), shocks (Bilstein) and good drivers...that's really our only secret to winning. Much, as I imagine, did the Archer brothers.

-M

 

[Root Moose]

I spoke with one of their engineers and John Archer early this summer and was somewhat blown off; we spoke once and he said he'd call me back with more info on what exactly they had but never did.

I wouldn't take it personally.

They probably have daydreamers, bull-shitters and other web misfits contacting them every few days asking for free information and hardware.

If their like most racers it is just a matter of either being politely persistent and/or getting the correct introduction and then the flood gates will open. All the while trying to work around their multiple, competing demands.

Besides, at this point I'm not certain what they (Archer) would have that you guys haven't already discovered, worked around, whatever.

On another note, solid axle really isn't a big deal on a smooth race track... unless you are getting your kidneys pounded at Mosport or similar I guess.

 

[YELLAHEEP]

This set up looks interesting and could be changed/improved upon. This is the set up under a salt-flats high speed type MJ meant to go in a straight line. Looks as though the lower control arms were left in their original mounts and possibly longer tube arms with heim ends were used/mounted to the lower part of the axle.

 

[88JeepXJ]

Not sure where he got the info but here it is.

" After researching more about the front axle modifications the Archer brothers used successfully racing the Jeep Comanche in the SCCA Truck Challenge series we found that they actually bent the front axle." http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/2010-race-jeep-cherokee-build/27247/page1/

That is my XJ-R. We got the info from here and JeepsUnlimited.com actually. So I would call it "interwebs research". We are not 100% sure what the Archer front axle looks like. The idea was planted in our head and we ran with it. We wanted to run offset ball joints (and I would recommend that) but the Grassroots Motorsports $2000 Challenge put a stop to that since those balls joints would account for at least 5% of the whole build.

We didn't have a large enough tube bender capable of bending the axle so we cut a pie section out of the top and bent the axle until it reached 2.5 degrees camber per side. So far there is no evidence of fatigue at the cut out section, and I didn't expect there to be. However I would want to revisit this modification if I were to take it out on track, especially 24 hours like Petty Racing. It works great for AutoX though and has held up to approximately 30 runs with huge sticky 275 Hoosier AutoX compound tires. We reinforced the stock upper and lower control arms and installed poly bushings so a lot of the lateral load is being held by this and a stock tie rod. So I doubt much axial load is reaching the cut section. There are doubters but I have actual proof it works.

We will continue to update the Grassroots build thread as well as our Facebook page "Jeep Cherokee XJ-R" but unfortunately the racing season is done until spring. Projects are planned for the winter though...not the least of which is getting the turbo back in there!

 

[sharq]

We are not 100% sure what the Archer front axle looks like.

That's the $100,000 dollar question isn't it? That along with the control arms.

Sounds like you have a mean machine. Do you have a blog or just the Facebook page and that forum thread?

 

[88JeepXJ]

That's the $100,000 dollar question isn't it? That along with the control arms.

Sounds like you have a mean machine. Do you have a blog or just the Facebook page and that forum thread?

No blog, I don't want to get too spread out given that I don't have a ton of time outside of work, life, and building/racing. So we will probably just keep the Facebook page and the build thread unless there is an outcry for MOAR! haha

 

[Rbmxj24]

Hey bringing up an old thread but im building a Drift/Track Comanche with a 383 stroker chevy motor have all mounts and headers from novak and the front is my question

What did they do for track bar and tie rods because lowering it would offset the track wouldnt it put it out to one side to far?

maybe im crazy but intrested if anyone else has found any more info as i will continue digging as well

Thanks , Rob