Rear axle.....60 or 9" or ??

[BrettM]

do you already have the front geared?

the swap to 6 lug would be cheap or free, quite possibly even make some money. as long as you don't have some sweet beadlocks with 5 lug that you really want to keep, I would say swap the front to 6 lug.

The Taco rear is a great axle, only downside is that the "8.4" diff has a little less aftermarket. The later 4 runners (96, maybe earlier, until they went IRS) had the more common 8" diff in the rear and are also 60" wide. Beware of the 4.88 factory thirds, they are slightly different in that they can not be regeared and the locker selection is limited (I think just lunchbox lockers available). If you're set on 4.88 and want a lunchbox locker or are going to weld it, then this is of no concern. The e-lockers are cool, but personally I would just go with a Detroit unless you found a sweet deal on one or the other (or an ARB). Car-part.com has pretty good prices on whole axles, as mentioned some with low gears and e-locker from the factory.

 

[BrettM]

another note: the Tacomas with the e-locker are not the normal Tacoma "8.4" diff, they are the 8" diff but require slight modification to be used in a normal 8" housing. Read this page over real well, it covers this and tons of other stuff: http://home.4x4wire.com/erik/diffs/

 

[Safari Ary]

The front is not geared, so I can do 4.88s or 5.29s and 5.38s if I choose. Since it would be the 5.29s on the road, I don't suppose that's much worse than 5.13s ratio/RPM wise so that may work. I'm kind of excited at the prospect of D35 clearance with D44 strength(if not slightly more). Also, I know that this will be far better clearance wise than the 60 I was planning, but can these things be shaved or is it a pretty snug package all around? Thanks

Ary

 

[BrettM]

yup, with the Toy you get better than D44 strength, with better than D35 clearance if you shave it.

shaving it is very easy since it's all steel housing, just be careful not to weld too hot all at once or you could warp the housing. you can get 1/4 to 1/2 inch of clearance if you're pinion is pointed parallel to the ground, and the higher the pinion is pointed the more you can gain.

 

[BrettM]

oh yeah, and shaving the bottom also gets rid of the drain plug, which adds clearance. just pull the bottom 2 studs that hold the 3rd member out and replace them with bolts, then to drain the gear lube you just pull the bottom 2 bolts.

 

[Nay]

The advantage of keeping the Taco axle bolt pattern is you can use your stock axle shafts as spares when you buy a set of alloys. Also, you may find that 12.1" drums are plenty of rear brake, so no need for a disc conversion (moot point if you already have a disc conversion). I'd lay out the options side by side and see which is less expensive - as far as performance I think it is 6 of one and half dozen of the other, although presumably 6 on 5.5 is a bit stronger than 5 on 5.5.

I agree that dollar for dollar, pound for pound the, Toy axle is the best thing out there for 35's except for the custom high pinion stuff, because there is real advantage in the rocks getting that pinion yoke up and out of the way (maybe not more than keeping the bottom of the pig out of the way, though). The Yota 3rd member seems to have a pretty high pinion, though...it is just a sweet axle.

I've been surprised for a couple of years that the 8.8 is the hot mod for Jeeps and not the 8"...the 8" simply has a much better clearance to strength ratio than the 8.8. It's probably for the one simple reason that the 8.8 is 5 on 4.5...ditch the bolt pattern and the 8" is your axle of choice.

Nay

 

[BrettM]

It's probably for the one simple reason that the 8.8 is 5 on 4.5

Nay

Bingo!

 

[BrettM]

which makes me think, if someone sold Taco shafts and drums with 5 on 4.5, and the 1310 yoke, that could be a pretty popular kit... hmmm

 

[Nay]

thats how the costal communities squeeze every last cent out of their visitors, or atleast thats how it goes down here in NC.

If the speed limit sign says 15 you better not be going anything over 12

I've lived in Colorado for 6 years and had one speeding ticket (which was returning from an East Coast trip).

I vacationed annually to North Carolina and have 3 tickets.

Virginia, Maryland, and North Carolina are the traffic cop capitals of the country. I'm never going to Maryland again if I can help it - it costs me about $80 every time. They should just set up a toll both at the state line and get it out of the way up front.

Damn 55 mph speed limits. :looser:

Nay

 

[Nay]

which makes me think, if someone sold Taco shafts and drums with 5 on 4.5, and the 1310 yoke, that could be a pretty popular kit... hmmm

I'm amazed nobody sells it, to be honest. Bolt pattern seems to really scare people off, and it's about the easiest thing to adapt. Axle bracketry, gear ratios, locker options, and clearance are much more difficult or at least costly.

I mean, people are more willing to grind a diff to increase clearance than to change a bolt pattern. Most of us end up with alloy shafts and disc brakes anyway, which is all that is required to change bolt pattern.

What's the gig with spring perches? Do they need to be relocated? If that part is bolt on, the rest is just so simple.

Nay

 

[basalt51]

Well I thought of a whole bunch of things as I read the post and mad maXJ and Nay pretty much covered them all. I think there is a huge advantage to using a "factory" axle that parts are readily available for. As mentioned switching you're tera50 to 6 lug is pretty cheap and easy.

I VERY breifly thought about the toy rears but nobody actually recommended them or seemed to run them when I was looking. Now I have a nice anchor in the back and the wife will kill me if I EVER think about changing it again so I'm stuck with it The HP 9" doesn't offer any more clearance under the diff right? Only under the pinion?

Lastly, Ary are you planning on driving this thing on the Road or commute? I can't wait to get my 35s because these 4.88s are just too low for commuting 120+ miles a day with 33s. I just don't like cruising at 3000 rpms. I know alot of people say the 4.0 will do that all day long, but mine at least is working much harder and louder to pull 3000 rpms vs. 2750. 35s and 5.13 would be the same. my 0.02

 

[Safari Ary]

At the present time my daily commute is 7 miles each way, but that could change soon to 100 miles each way, at which point I will be campaigning for a company gas card and probably picking up a econo car, or a new place to live on the company dime. I do drive on the highway long distances to visit friends and go 'wheelin, but not on a daily or even weekly basis. I suppose 4.88s isn't gonna be horrible, since most people with 35s run them , but I absolutely loved 31.5s and 4.56s and I didn't mind running 2850-2900 on the highway. I've started my research about Toy axles and the difference b/w years, applications, and so on. I'd like to stay right around 60-61" wide which leaves me with the Tacoma axle from what I can tell. I will convert it to discs because of the mud the Jeep sees from time to time and how much I hate drums in general. Needless to say I've got a lot to learn in a short amount of time, but that's fine, I enjoy the learning process. Thanks for your help guys, I really appreciate it.

Ary

 

[Nay]

( The HP 9" doesn't offer any more clearance under the diff right? Only under the pinion?

Lastly, Ary are you planning on driving this thing on the Road or commute? I can't wait to get my 35s because these 4.88s are just too low for commuting 120+ miles a day with 33s. I just don't like cruising at 3000 rpms. I know alot of people say the 4.0 will do that all day long, but mine at least is working much harder and louder to pull 3000 rpms vs. 2750. 35s and 5.13 would be the same. my 0.02

Currie uses a 9" housing for the high pinion axle (a custom 3rd member that houses 8.8 gears from a front IFS setup). They do offer a clearanced version of the axle housing with about 1" better clearance, but at a cost of diff capacity. Currie steered my away from that setup for a daily driver due to potential lubrication problems if you put a lot of miles on it. If I were doing it again (my "commute" is about one mile...better for biking than driving...and I don't use it for road trips anymore) I'd probably get the clearanced version.

I run 34x12.5's on 4.56 gears, and I prefer this to 33's on 4.56. Not because of RPM, but simply because the "dead zones" in the auto tranny are better matched to mixed city/highway usage. For road use, really low gears raise overdrive RPM and shift around the auto tranny dead zone (if you have an auto, obviously). You can raise top gear RPM by simply running in 3rd gear with an auto tranny, doing 2,800 RPM at about 60 mph. Or you can drop to 5.29 gears and run that RPM in overdrive. With an auto tranny, what's the real difference onroad, other than you don't have the option to run at lower RPM when road conditions would allow it (like long flat stretches and downhills)?

I'd be doing the 5.29 for a lower crawl ratio. I think a 4:1 kit or a 3.8:1 Atlas would be plenty offroad, and you could have a more normalized onroad diff ratio. At sea level, the 4.0 has plenty of power to push 35's with 4.56 gears. Even at high altitude I like my diff ratio...the 2.72:1 is a bit high now, though, when wheeling at 8,000 ft+ elevation. A simple 4.3:1 Atlas would cure all of those ills .

Nay

 

[Nay]

At the present time my daily commute is 7 miles each way, but that could change soon to 100 miles each way, at which point I will be campaigning for a company gas card and probably picking up a econo car, or a new place to live on the company dime. I do drive on the highway long distances to visit friends and go 'wheelin, but not on a daily or even weekly basis. I suppose 4.88s isn't gonna be horrible, since most people with 35s run them , but I absolutely loved 31.5s and 4.56s and I didn't mind running 2850-2900 on the highway. I've started my research about Toy axles and the difference b/w years, applications, and so on. I'd like to stay right around 60-61" wide which leaves me with the Tacoma axle from what I can tell. I will convert it to discs because of the mud the Jeep sees from time to time and how much I hate drums in general. Needless to say I've got a lot to learn in a short amount of time, but that's fine, I enjoy the learning process. Thanks for your help guys, I really appreciate it.

Ary

Just a final thought, and I'm outta here for the day...I initially ran 4.56's with 31's and loved it. I didn't like it as much with 32's, and with 33x10.5 my auto tranny shift points were just off. It's great with 34x12.5 (which are about the size of most 35's), much better than the 33x10.5. I've had others say the same...they much prefer 35's on 4.56 over 33's. Just a thought since Toyota has factory 4.56's...that axle will be quiet with factory setup gears that have never been messed with. Sweet.

Nay

 

[Big Red]

Toy shafts are basically indentical in size and spline count to D44 shafts, but for some reason (materials? design?) they fare much better. One excuse that is often heard is that the Toy guys are only using 4 bangers with 120 horsepower. WELL, many are also running crawl ratios in the 2-300 range, which is putting more torque to the axles than the around 80:1 that many people run with a 200 hp 4.0. Plus, the Toy guys almost all use manual trannies which give more shock loads to the axles than an auto. And Plus Plus, a lot of Toy guys are useing 4.3 chevy v6s now too.

sure, there are people that could break 35 spline d60s with superior chromo shafts with 35 inch tires, but unless you're in that 1/2 percent the Toy axle will hold up great to 35s.

Another thing, is there any reason that you would be stuck with 5 on 5.5 up front? You could use Chevy or Waggy outers and do 6 on 5.5 to match the Toy rear with no need for redrilling them.

I spent about a year seriously researching and just deciding which axles to swap in place of my D30/35. I think I seriously considered every possible combination. I am convinced that Toy rear axles are THE BEST thing going for 33-37 inch tires (aside from spending the ultra-bling on Pro-Rock 60s or something). Match it with any D44 front you like, Waggy or Chevy already has 6 lug, or put 6 lug outers on a Ford axle. The only thing close in my mind is the 70s F-150 axles, HPD44/ford9".

I currently am running a 29 spline 8.25 with 4.56 gears on 35 mtrs and it has held up so far. Is the rear axle in a 2wd toy a 8" with the 5 on 4-1/2 or is the smaller 7-1/2" axle? I have seen quite a few of these in bone yards and was thinking of swapping this into my xj, but I have spare shafts for the 8.25 & got a no-slip that I need to install. Hope to wheel with you when you get back to Cali I moved from Chicago almost a year and a half now.

 

[Big Red]

Well I thought of a whole bunch of things as I read the post and mad maXJ and Nay pretty much covered them all. I think there is a huge advantage to using a "factory" axle that parts are readily available for. As mentioned switching you're tera50 to 6 lug is pretty cheap and easy.

I VERY breifly thought about the toy rears but nobody actually recommended them or seemed to run them when I was looking. Now I have a nice anchor in the back and the wife will kill me if I EVER think about changing it again so I'm stuck with it The HP 9" doesn't offer any more clearance under the diff right? Only under the pinion?

Lastly, Ary are you planning on driving this thing on the Road or commute? I can't wait to get my 35s because these 4.88s are just too low for commuting 120+ miles a day with 33s. I just don't like cruising at 3000 rpms. I know alot of people say the 4.0 will do that all day long, but mine at least is working much harder and louder to pull 3000 rpms vs. 2750. 35s and 5.13 would be the same. my 0.02

I have 4.88 gears in my wrangler with 33" tsl radials and like the power. I have a 4l60e from a chevy with a vortec v-6. I think my tranny has an overdrive gear reduction of 31%. The jeep aw4 has a 28% reduction of less I think. Are you getting another set of mtrs just in a larger size? You could almost go with the 37's with your axle strength if you don't mind cutting a bit. You have a new xj with a strong motor so the 4.88 should be able to turn the 37's o.k., but in all practical uses the 35's are ideal and you really don't need to go bigger on an xj I think, but you do have those axles and your ford 9" would have more clearance.

 

[REDXJ4FUN]

heres another axle to consider. a mopar 8 3/4 if you don't mind a spool you can run 35 spline shafts. they cam in a 61 width I just got mine I'm droping 5.38 in it and a spool.

 

[Renegade Jpr]

Ford 9" with D60 outters, best of both worlds

 

[logdog]

Ford 9" with D60 outters, best of both worlds

Thats what we did with our TJ. We call it the "69"

 

[BrettM]

I'd like to stay right around 60-61" wide which leaves me with the Tacoma axle from what I can tell.
Ary

don't forget the 4runner axles! actually, if you're planning on running the leafs under the "frame" rails or linking the rear, I would use an 86-95 truck or 4runner axle. my reasoning is that these are by far the most common Toy axles (at least for wheelers), so you would have interchangeable spares with other people, and Allpro stocks chromo axles for them for $300. they're only 58.5" wide, but 3/4 inch spacers are real cheap.


as for gear ratio, it kinda depends on how fast you like going cruising on the freeway. if you hardly top 70 then definitely get the 5.29s, but I know at least in California there are many places where going 70 will get you run over. if you cruise at 75 or 80 a lot you may want to lean towards 4.88s. I have 4.88s and 33s right now, and it's too deep on the highway, but I'll put the 35s on in a month when I get back out to Cali. I'd be worried about the 2000 mile drive with 4.88s and 33s except that i'll have several hundred pounds of stuff in the back so I think the extra gearing will be appreciated. Bear in mind I have a Renix 4.0 which is more of a low end motor than the HO, and I have an AW4 from an HO motor which has less over drive (.75 versus .70 for Renix AW4s).