Race crash at Reno Air Race

[DrMoab]

It was designed almost 70 years ago. With today's computer aided cad designs and better materials I have no doubt that design wise it was probably better than the original.

Just like adding a tailgate to an M416 <------smile added.

 

[GregGA]

Design might be great. Wonder if they magnafluxed the trim tab or replaced it. Hope it wasn't 65 year old metal with a 2011 design.
A great tragedy.

 

[wolfpackjeeper]

Well, I'll say a 74 year old should not be flying in that venue, pulling 3+ g's.

3 G's is nothing, and I don't think that the force affecting the pilot was a causal factor in the crash. The best guess I have seen was that he lost a trim tab, started out of control, then stalled the airframe mainly due to the modifications to the wings. Those unlimited class planes are really only good at flying fast. The wings are shortened and reprofiled to give a faster speed, but at the cost of performance at all other speeds.

 

[Ghost]

There was a pilot that was there talking about the incident this weekend. He was saying that standard procedure when a problem occurs is to climb straight out and get altitude. He said after he climbed the plane pitched over and was heading for him and the middle of the grandstand. The eye witness said as he was coming down the plan was moving toward the tarmac. He said another 10 feet or so and the plan would have hit the tarmac.

 

[blubullett]

Now they think the seat broke because you can't see him in the cockpit in pictures.

 

[bigalpha]

Now they think the seat broke because you can't see him in the cockpit in pictures.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/09/2...no-air-crash-had-broken-seat-aviation-expert/

 

[DrexelSpivey]

They cut 10 feet off the wingspan of a plane that had only 5 foot span to length differential....no bueno..

 

[iwannadie]

Now they think the seat broke because you can't see him in the cockpit in pictures.

I thought those planes were pretty cramped inside, where would he have gone if his seat collapsed? Does anyone have pictures of the cockpit and seat setup?

 

[hubs97xj]

There is not much room, but they made some pretty obvious changes to the canopy and fuselage, so the cockpit may have been altered significantly as well.

 

[iwannadie]

There is not much room, but they made some pretty obvious changes to the canopy and fuselage, so the cockpit may have been altered significantly as well.

Yea I would be curious to see what a modified plane may look like. Looking at cutaway pictures and model pictures it shows really no where for someone to go. I know a model is not a modified race plane but it appears the seat sits inches above the floorpan.

 

[hubs97xj]

I believe the radio gear was in that space behind the pilot, which Leeward's plane obviously wouldn't have had. I ran across another post just now while looking for a pic of his cockpit, and the gist of it was that the floor of the cockpit was modified to make room for their cooling system modifications.

Still inclined to believe the trim tab was the first domino to fall, but as to what failed, in what order- we'll probably never know with any certainty.

 

[iwannadie]

I believe the radio gear was in that space behind the pilot, which Leeward's plane obviously wouldn't have had. I ran across another post just now while looking for a pic of his cockpit, and the gist of it was that the floor of the cockpit was modified to make room for their cooling system modifications.

Still inclined to believe the trim tab was the first domino to fall, but as to what failed, in what order- we'll probably never know with any certainty.

Ah, when I was looking I saw a mass of "stuff" behind the seat and thought it wouldn't make sense for him to go backwards. Being it is radio gear then it would make sense it was removed and maybe created an empty void there.

 

[hubs97xj]

If you look at images of an unmolested P-51D, and The Galloping Ghost (especially profile shots) side by side, you can pick out quite a few modifications to the canopy, upper and lower fuselage, wings, control surfaces, radiator inlet/outlet, etc. I can't find a decent shot of the cockpit, but they would almost certainly have changed virtually everything to turn it into a racer.

 

[tbburg]

A standard P-51, with all the WW-II era gear stripped out of the fus, has room for a second seat behind the pilot's seat. The only exterior mod is a canopy with a slightly larger bulge at the back.
Besides the cooling system(the rad on a -51 is mounted in duct work behind the wing) the tail cone of those planes are mostly empty space. The rear fus. only connects the tail plane to the wing. Since it's stressed skin, or monocoque construction, there's nothing inside.

Anyway, if the seat back broke, the pilot would fall back, not down. He'd be essentially laying down behind the controls.

 

[iwannadie]

A standard P-51, with all the WW-II era gear stripped out of the fus, has room for a second seat behind the pilot's seat. The only exterior mod is a canopy with a slightly larger bulge at the back.
Besides the cooling system(the rad on a -51 is mounted in duct work behind the wing) the tail cone of those planes are mostly empty space. The rear fus. only connects the tail plane to the wing. Since it's stressed skin, or monocoque construction, there's nothing inside.

Anyway, if the seat back broke, the pilot would fall back, not down. He'd be essentially laying down behind the controls.

Yea after looking through pictures I actually saw one with a second seat. It really sucks whatever happened.

 

[hubs97xj]

I saw the NTSB released a preliminary finding (you can find it on their website), but it doesn't add much. I guess they've recovered some camera and data logging gear, and some flash cards, but didn't know at the time of the article if the cards belonged to Leeward's plane. Probably going to be a year or more before the investigation is complete, so I'll guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

[wolfpackjeeper]

It took 6 months for our mishap board to gain the findings needed to get us back flying again in Nav school. The only reason it was that fast is because it had to be. They were holding up Production of WSO's for 3 branches of the Service and two NATO partners.

 

[RedHeep]

It took 6 months for our mishap board to gain the findings needed to get us back flying again in Nav school. The only reason it was that fast is because it had to be. They were holding up Production of WSO's for 3 branches of the Service and two NATO partners.

Most mishap boards I've taken part in take weeks, not months. Especially if the initial findings are not related to an aircraft discrepancy. It's not common to shut an entire platform down like that, but it happens.

I've also been part of the biggest shutdown in recent military history. We stopped flying in Dec 2000 and had the first test flight in May 2002. The military didn't start flying again until August 2003.

Because there is no commercial variant of the aircraft that crashed and since it was a highly modified aircraft with most of those modifications kept proprietary and in secret, the NTSB doesn't have a whole lot to go on. They'll release some preliminary findings, but it's almost impossible to prove exactly what happened.

 

[RedHeep]

If you look at images of an unmolested P-51D, and The Galloping Ghost (especially profile shots) side by side, you can pick out quite a few modifications to the canopy, upper and lower fuselage, wings, control surfaces, radiator inlet/outlet, etc. I can't find a decent shot of the cockpit, but they would almost certainly have changed virtually everything to turn it into a racer.

There is a recent Popular Mechanics article on the aircraft. I read the article out here on the boat a couple months ago. It describes generally the modifications that the aircraft had.

It was the most radically modified P-51 to date. 4 feet clipped from each wing and the radiator scoop was completely removed. They were running a cooling system that had a storage tank behind the pilot and was refilled after every flight. I don't remember the details, but some internet searching will find the article.

 

[hubs97xj]

I'll keep an eye out for it. Can't find it on their website presently, but I did find this.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/tec...-metal-caused-the-reno-air-race-crash-6481596

It's obviously not official, but their perspective certainly seems plausible. More convincing than anything I've heard on the idiotbox, anyway. I'm completely unable to wrap my head around 20+ Gs. I gray out on roller coasters....