PowerTrax No-Slip in Snow

[wall04]

Hi All,

I live in Colorado and use my '99XJ as a daily and mountain. driver. I have heard that on tight icy roads the PowerTrax No-Slip can engage accidentially (if you hit the gas for example) causing you to slip and loose the back end. Any thoughts? I know with an ARB I can do whatever I want but I don't have the money for that right now.

There is a guy on eBay selling a stock limited slip for the 8.25 29 that I could use. Any thoughts on this vs the PowerTrax No-Sip given the above issue and the fact that I'm broke?

Thanks to everyone who have made this site the valuable XJ resource that it is.

Wall04

 

[BRIANHO13]

I have the no-slip and it worked great in the snow, just have to remember itsback there.

 

[jeepinkeller]

the no-slip is a full time locker, and will feel way different than a limited slip. It can be pretty squirly in the snow, you just have to adjust your driving style and be more careful. If youre front end is open, snow isnt too bad in 4wd. I live in utah and see alot of snow, but the small inconvience of having to be a little careful driving on slick roads is worth it when you see how much of a traction and performance increase a locker will give you in off road situations. If you dont wheel your jeep very much I would do a limited slip. if you wheel often then my vote is the locker hands down.

 

[xjkid99]

My buddy had a power-trax and his truck was a donut machine in the snow, spin spin spin

 

[jb98xj]

Depends on if you know how to drive in the snow or not. If you are heavy on the gas, you will have problems. If you are sensible, you will be fine. Personally, I think alot of it depends on your tires. Just my .02

 

[etaniyani]

The powertrax is an automatic locker, this means you don't have control of when it is engaged and disengaged. when the locker feels a load, such as you pressing the gas, it will lock, and when youre not on the gas it unlocks. as long as you know this while driving on icy roads its okay, and can actually be beneficial at times. when making turns on icy roads with a locker, avoid using the gas going into the turn, use your momentum and plan ahead. once you get used to the new driving style youll never want to go back.

 

[What Rd]

I ran a No-Slip when my rig was still my DD (lots of driving in all conditions) and now that I have a D44 I run an ARB. Either is perfectly acceptable, if you accept the consequences.

With the No-Slip, the locker locks the rear axles together whenever the rig is under power and either tire tries to turn more slowly than the ring gear. So on slick surfaces, that means any time you apply enough torque to the rearend to make one tire spin, the locker will immediately engage. This results in one of two things: either the rig drives forward with both tires applying torque to the ground, or both tires start to spin. It only takes a short time to get used to the new handling characteristics. The safe rule is, whenever you drive onto a slick surface with an automatic locker in the rear end, shift into 4WD. With the added torque application of one of the front tires, you'll have to be trying rather seriously to get the rig's tail to swing.

With the ARB, you just leave the locker disengaged and it drives as though the locker had never been installed - a fully open differential. When turned on, the rear axleshafts are locked together as if they had been welded into one solid piece. Both tires will turn at the same speed regardless of the direction of the vehicle, the torque applied, the surface driven on, etc. The drawbacks to an ARB (ok - the ones relevant to this discussion - I've no desire to restart a pros/cons of ARBs thread) are really twofold: it does nothing to increase your tractive capability in snowy conditions unless you take the overt action of turning it on, and it costs more and is more complex (these go together in my book). The big advantage to an ARB is that it does nothing to increase your tractive capability in snowy conditions unless you take the overt action of turning it on.
No, I didn't stutter. It's both an advantage and a disadvantage that the ARB only operates when you turn it on. An auto locker is always there doing its thing. Depending on how you drive and conditons, it is providing additional traction in all those situations where you are applying more torque than one tire can handle, but less then is required to spin both. An ARB does not do this. It is either on and locked, or off and open.

Which is better for you is more a matter of personal preference than anything else. I've been very happy with both. I placed my locker switches on the leading face of the center console, on either side of the e-brake handle. So they fall right under my finger tips and either one or both can be engaged as easily as thinking about doing it. And I don't mind thinking about it. In fact, I like the option of being able to turn both of them off when wheeling on slick, off-camber surfaces, as the rig tracks better that way and is less likely to slip downhill sideways. Would I go with another No-Slip in another rig? Without hesitation. Would I go with a used limited slip? No. But that's me and I'm stubborn. Ask anybody.

:laugh3:

 

[wall04]

Wow. Thank you for the insight. I should have probably searched but let me ask you this...

Let's say I have an ARB and I'm in 2WD with if off, so I'm running open. I get stuck. Can I activate the ARB when I'm stopped with one wheel spinning to get locked up and drive away? Let's also pretend that my axel is unbreakable.

This is good information because with my driving habits it may be better for be to save and get the ARB and be done with it.

 

[sidriptide]

Wow. Thank you for the insight. I should have probably searched but let me ask you this...

Let's say I have an ARB and I'm in 2WD with if off, so I'm running open. I get stuck. Can I activate the ARB when I'm stopped with one wheel spinning to get locked up and drive away? Let's also pretend that my axel is unbreakable.

This is good information because with my driving habits it may be better for be to save and get the ARB and be done with it.

yes you can but you need to let that wheel stop spinning first. the ARB operates totally independant of everything, except the switch. (but to put this into perspective a Rubicon has similar lockers and they are inoperable in anything but 4-lo. but thats they way it's wired from the factory)

 

[What Rd]

What Sid said. The even better technique would be to sense the impending loss of forward momentum, let off the throttle just long enough to let the spinning wheel slow to vehicle ground speed, then engage the ARB and power away while you still have a little momentum working for you. The latest generation ARBs are incredibly strong, but anything can be broken if subjected to enough force within a given period of time. Slamming anything from one state into another is tempting fate.

 

[ILLXJ]

I am running What Rd's old no-slip. When I first put it in I was kind of worried, but when the 1st snow came I went to the school parking lot & played around a bit. You will soon figure out how it will behave. Then adjust your driving style. JIM.

 

[CartsXJ]

Sounds like you are open in the back, I would say throw the No-slip in it and call it good, just adjust your driving skills and don't worry about it. I have the factory trac-loc in mine and its still tight with 150K on the tach. Don't ask me how or why, but when I was down at paragon last weekend, it would still spin both 35's and not once slip. It was like have a true locker back there. I had a feeling the trac-loc was no match for the 35, but it held up extremely well.

Now the plan is to throw an arb up front and just run the trac-loc until it gives up the ghost. Then throw the full-widths under it and take my front 30 and put that under my g/f's TJ.

 

[dmillion]

Let's say I have an ARB and I'm in 2WD with if off, so I'm running open. I get stuck. Can I activate the ARB when I'm stopped with one wheel spinning...

Depends on how fast your wheel is spinning. If you engage the ARB when one wheel is spinning fast and the other is stopped you will grenade your differential and ARB will not be sympathetic. You want to stop the spinnning wheel, engage the ARB, and then drive out calmly, safely, and without breaking anything.

 

[RichP]

It will tend to push you at low speeds like when turning into a driveway or other sharp turn no matter which way the front wheels are pointing, let off the gas and it will turn correctly. Just one of those things I found out in the first snow storm

 

[xjfrank]

It's way more interesting when you have no-spins front and rear.

 

[muduck18]

Depends on if you know how to drive in the snow or not. If you are heavy on the gas, you will have problems. If you are sensible, you will be fine. Personally, I think alot of it depends on your tires. Just my .02

X2

duh think about it. two wheels driving instead of one... hmm strange to think about that giving you problems in the snow...I would welcome that problem right now i only have one tire that spins...

 

[xjfrank]

That's exactly how my thinking went until I had them. It's not the 'in snow' part that matters, it's 'in turns' that matters and having to accomodate different length arcs with wheels that want to turn the same speed (locked).

You learn to drive differently with lockers (whether that be snow, sand, ice, rocks, etc), and it's just a matter of learning how it feels/behaves on each surface and then adjusting your driving to safely accomodate that.

On ice it just sucks period, turns or straight doesn't matter.

I like full-time full-carrier lockers. But in snow I prefer my wife's awd over my XJ any day. I'm the slowest guy out there in snow in my jeep, I get passed by people that look at me like I'm weird for driving so slow in such a built up looking jeep. That's ok with me.

To sum it up, both lockers in snow, give gas whole truck tracks rightward while pointing striaght, give off gas whole jeep tracks leftward while pointing straight. Either case it dislikes having to turn. That make any sense?

...Frank

 

[muduck18]

That's exactly how my thinking went until I had them. It's not the 'in snow' part that matters, it's 'in turns' that matters and having to accomodate different length arcs with wheels that want to turn the same speed (locked).

You learn to drive differently with lockers (whether that be snow, sand, ice, rocks, etc), and it's just a matter of learning how it feels/behaves on each surface and then adjusting your driving to safely accomodate that.

On ice it just sucks period, turns or straight doesn't matter.

I like full-time full-carrier lockers. But in snow I prefer my wife's awd over my XJ any day. I'm the slowest guy out there in snow in my jeep, I get passed by people that look at me like I'm weird for driving so slow in such a built up looking jeep. That's ok with me.

To sum it up, both lockers in snow, give gas whole truck tracks rightward while pointing striaght, give off gas whole jeep tracks leftward while pointing straight. Either case it dislikes having to turn. That make any sense?

...Frank

point well taken

 

[wall04]

All,
Thanks again. Based on what I've seen here I will; a) not bid on the Limited slip on eBay and just save that money to b) become a full member and c) get the ARB for the rear.

My XJ is a daily driver and I tend to have a quick foot. What can I say, I just love the way it takes off. My wife also drives it on occasion and my nightmare is having her spin out in the snow on some highway on/off ramp somewhere because the PowerTrax engages (if I had one).

That being said, I have been stuck in deep snow before; once on Rabbit Ears Pass and once on Shrine Pass (if you live in Colorado these will sound familar). Both times I had to push out/dig out the jeep by hand & shovel and both times I bet the locker would have done all for me. I have the NP242 with open diffs and I was in "part time 4X4" on both occasions.

Since, I intend to start wheeling more heavily it would make more sense to save money and get the ARB anyway.

Wall04

 

[AJPulley]

It's way more interesting when you have no-spins front and rear.

How interesting... maybe I won't do this?