New motor oil wear problems on older engines

[Jay Welch]

You might be right Ecomike. I would run the Mobil1 product in mine but the rear main seal doesn't like it much.

To anyone reading my post....a lot of the conversation was directed to old British iron.

.........but I disagree that the Jeep 4.0 engine, after breaking does not need the higher the ZDDP levels in the oil.

 

[geeaea]

Amazing.

 

[bewilderedbeast]

What's amazing? Oh wait, I know.

 

[scottmcneal]

I know, lets all buy new 4x4s.. NOT.. So how many miles can we drive now with oil? I got a headache from all this reading, i think they just change it to make you guys think to much, an not use your jeeps....

my 4 cents

 

[bewilderedbeast]

You sound very wise.
You may not be, but you sound like it.

 

[Flash]

Actually its more like comparing walnuts to peaches, LOL.:laugh:

I found some info on Restore at a UK site, seems they to use colloidal silver-copper-lead alloy particles that pass through the oil filter, as they are submicron sized, and they plate out in the worn areas of the cylinders to restore compression. Have not tried it myself, but I may the chance to test it soon on a jeep I am about to buy that is reported to have low compression (so called blown cyl) on #5 cyl, but it still drives.

I don't think restore would replace ZDDP, or visa versa, I suspect the Restore product is meant for more severe compression loss and restoration in pits and wear in the cylinders walls where as the ZDDP is meant for repeated attachment, wear removal, followed by reattachment of the ZDDP to the metal surface. In other words the ZDDP acts more like a thin film of oil that is wiped off then replated right back on, whereas the Restore product goes on and stays on with a much thicker layer, allowing you to extend the life of an engine with lots of wear and blowby. Restores claims to be able to "restore" an engine with lots of blowby back to normal blowby rates for about 7,000 miles.

On the SLOB oil additive topic (Street Legal Oil Additive by CD-2), I managed to score about a dozen bottles at two BIG Lots stores in the Pasadena area. The store at the Almeda mall in south west Houston on I-45 still had a good 8 to 10 bottles left after I stocked up, maybe more left. So check out the Big Lots stores. They also have a nice selection of injector fuel additive (cleaners) for $1.00 a bottle.

wOWwww noW. Now that I'm finally up to speed.:guitar: :skull1: :anon: :repair:

Ecomike, sound like your jeep has a lot of blow by and probably lightly, has smoke out the tail pipe at freeway speed.........Try the "Eng Restore", it will help.
Just remember to shake the can good before you pour it in. And add some more oil in the empty can, and shake it up some more to get it all out.

It might be interesting to do a compression check on you bad cylinder and see if it come up after 500 miles (so your not relying your seat of the pants meter:laugh3: )

MY OPINIONS

# 1 lack of ZDDP is a problem with Flat Tappet Engs.
# 2 I agree that with the "HIGH Mileage, stock, Flat tappet cam, eng, that these new oil will not be a problem"..................But I, for one, I'm not taking that chance.


Has any one seen an oil additive that advertise the ZDDP yet?

Has the GM additive really been removed????


Flash

 

[RyanM]

Has any one seen an oil additive that advertise the ZDDP yet?
Yes, take a closere look at a bottle of STP blue oil treatment
Has the GM additive really been removed????
Removed, maybe quite not yet, Discontinued-Yes

Flash

 

[gradon]

So my brother works at Advance Auto and he told me about the $30 for any mobil 1 filter and any 5 quarts of oil deal(before 20% discount). I bought ten 10w40 hi/mi and two m301 filters. I used mobil 1 10w30 in my 94 before, but this is the first time I have used a 10w40. The 96 is currently leak-free and has 68K. I saw that AA has plenty of STP blue, if anyone is looking.

 

[CrawlingCritter]

Don't worry about motor oil(s). My solution:

1. Go to Walmart and buy their Supertech brand for high mileage vehicles.
2. Change oil every 1500 miles.

Oil stays clean. Cleaner Oil = better fuel economy
Cleaner Oil=happy engine

If you change oil every 1500 miles you could almost use Wesson Oil :looney: (almost).

 

[mikegronholz]

Any oil for those who are looking:

John Deere Plus-50

Comes in 0w-40 and 15w-40. 0w-40 is synthetic, 15w-40 isn't. Both are rated at SL. 0w-40 is rated as CH-4 for diesel, the 15w-40 is rated at CI-4 Plus.

Here is the 15w-40 dino info

http://www.deere.com/en_US/parts/partsinfo/oils_and_lubricants/oil_plus50_15w40.html

 

[mikegronholz]

Don't worry about motor oil(s). My solution:

1. Go to Walmart and buy their Supertech brand for high mileage vehicles.
2. Change oil every 1500 miles.

Oil stays clean. Cleaner Oil = better fuel economy
Cleaner Oil=happy engine

If you change oil every 1500 miles you could almost use Wesson Oil :looney: (almost).

And for argument's sake, there have been a few "studies" done that indicate the exact oposite. Constantly using new oil is not good. I forget exactly, but oil (traditional dino oil in a gasoline engine) does its best work at between 2500 miles and 4000 miles.

Remember, the "change it every 3000 miles" thing has been around a loooooooooong time. Oils, filters and engines have come a long way since 'back then".

 

[mikegronholz]

Sorry ... dbl post due to work's stupid BlueCoat

 

[1bolt]

Whew read the whole thread:looser: My understanding is that the GM EOS additive was discontinued so that they could re-brand it and distribute it to auto parts stores under the AC Delco brand as AC Delco EOS, and last I heard it should already be available. This info was on the Strokers Yahoo group a month or two back, even had a new part number.

I haven't checked myself, but I am looking for some. I recently been got a 1965 Mustang with 289 that was rebuilt in the late 80's and then driven only about 13000 miles, with only 3000 of that since 1992. The last major driving was years ago and thus it's last oil change interval by the previous owner can be counted in "years" instead of miles. It's not high miles and it has never been run with low ZDDP oil. Who wants to take chances with that?

 

[dfreeman616]

I see many oil companies saying their oil exceeds the requirements of this and that spec, that does not mean it has been tested and certified to actually meet API SL (or whatever spec they are claiming to exceed the requirments of), it just means the oil company is saying they believe their oil exceeds the requirements, but does not say how.

i'm just reading this for the first time, but if someone else already replied, sorry. but anyways. when meeting the requirements means there is no more than X amount of ZDDP, then exceding it would mean there is less than that amount. still reading this thing, no page 10

 

[dfreeman616]

Mike ...there is a decay rate. The incremental or decremental aspect of it can only manifest itself in length of service. Think about it.

If you admit that zddp is sacrificial ...(enough evidence for anyone to accept) ..then there is a point where there is less of it (in its usable form = there's no "uptake" of the fundamental zinc and phos = they do, however, volatilize). That sensibly leads most to reason that a 1200 ppm starting point ....or a 900 ppm starting point are GOING to resemble each other in effective worth AT SOME POINT in the OCI.

We then would sensibly reason that it's down to a matter of length of OCI that will determine your TRUE level of viable zddp in the oil. Naturally, if you start with more ...you'll end with more ...but you'll be dealing with "less" of it from the first time you bump the key ..and every revolution after that until you drain it out.

Go ahead and put both levels (900/1200) on any decay curve that you want. Use exponential if you want. Now plot that over a given mileage (make it up) ..there IS - by any reasonable analysis, going to be somewhere on the graph where the lines occupy the exact same coordinates on one plane. They will occupy it at different "times" (mileages) ..but THEY WILL BE AT THE SAME LEVELS IN CONCENTRATION.

I'm saying that you're (typically) draining your oil before EITHER of those levels are damaging to your engine. If you're a 3k/3m prisoner ...you've (most likely) got more active zddp than someone running SL out to a sensible OCI.

If you can throw a bucket of water on that notion ..I'll end my contributions to this minor matter (imo). I have enjoyed, and do admire, your apparent ability to find only that which tends to support this notion and your complete rejection of offered, anxiety easing, information. A tip of the hat to you, sir

Cheers

i don't think that's the point in question. if 900ppm is too low for final concentration, it's certianly too low for initial concentration. eventually both would have the same concentration of ZDP, but that's not the determining factor. if you take two people and put them in seperate sealed rooms, one with 1200cubic feet of usable air and the other with 900cubic feet, eventually the both would drop down to a point of too little air to breath, but one happens sooner. now if one starts out with insufficiant air, that person's going to be dead in a couple minutes.

 

[1bolt]

Don't worry about motor oil(s). My solution:

1. Go to Walmart and buy their Supertech brand for high mileage vehicles.
2. Change oil every 1500 miles.

Oil stays clean. Cleaner Oil = better fuel economy
Cleaner Oil=happy engine

If you change oil every 1500 miles you could almost use Wesson Oil :looney: (almost).

The VOA for supertech on BITOG looks like half an oil, or at least half a decent SM oil where ZDDP is concerned. Which to further clearify: half of an oil that's already very low on ZDDP) If you run it with a flat tappet cam you may cause undue wear... Or maybe not, but is saving a couple dollars per oil change worth risking it?

I can guarantee you that a rebuild will cost you a hell of a lot more than you'll ever save putting supertech in your crankcase.

I love supertech though... it makes a nice "flush" oil when I want to top off the crankcase a couple days before an oil change, get the 5W20 for extra solvent effect... After a nice long drive, drain and put in something you wouldn't be afraid to go 5000 or more miles on.

 

[CrawlingCritter]

Supertech is bottled by different refineries (Pennzoil, Quaker state etc.) depending upon what region of the US you live in. These oils (including Supertech) meet current API standards. Being the owner of a courier service I noticed that if the oil is changed every 1500 miles fuel economy is improved to the point of acutually paying for the extra oil change (every 1500 versus every 3000 miles). You don't have to use Supertech to achieve this, it is simply the cheapest oil available and doing the oil change myself I save money there too.

Remembering back the Auto companies starting requiring/suggesting the 3000 mile oil change when they started extending their warrenties. They apparently thought (at least at the time) this a good idea.

I'm no engineer, but what research I did on Supertech at the time I started using it, the oil compared favorably with many of the major oils actually contained less ash than Valvoline.

I doubt that any major company makes a junk oil product. That said I am sure there are superior products made by a handful of companies. Simply put, they have to have some angle or edge--some way they can pitch their product to guys trying to protect their investment. Cause nobody found a money tree yet.:wantyou:

 

[jeprovo]

I can't believe that I sat and read this whole thread... I wonder what people like Ecomike are doing for oil two years later.

 

[Ecomike]

I can't believe that I sat and read this whole thread... I wonder what people like Ecomike are doing for oil two years later.

I am still finding API SL oil, lately been using Autozone brand API SL, 20W50 in 2 vehicles and 15W40 in the low mileage Jeep. Have not been able to find the older API CH diesel oil lately, still looking for a source to restock for my diesel.

 

[bwinter1946]

My plans include a couple of choices.

First is use up my existing stock of SM rated oil with the Redline Engine Break in Additive to protect my flat tappet motors: http://www.jegs.com/i/Red%20Line%20Oil/816/81403/10002/-1?CT=999
I buy it from a local shop.

Next, once all my SM oil is gone I will use either Vavoline VR-1 oil, Brad Penn Oil or Chevron Delo Diesel oil.

Thats my Plans