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my brakes still suck

i think he means he pumped it 5 times and then held it while someone opened the bleeder. i hope lol. i hope he knows it takes two people to bleed brakes lol :p
 
I'll just copy and past mine from an earlier thread, but this is for an evening bleed, not a morning one.

"That's why you don't bleed them that way. (and I'm not calling you stupid cause I did em that way for MANY years too). Called the kids or the old lady out and told em "pump it up and hold it down", and opened up the bleeder until the pedal went way down. There is a way easier way, but it takes longer. I use it whenever I replace brake cylinders or calipers, but mostly it's just to change the brake fluid, which I do whenever I change shoes or pads. Ideally you change brake fluid at least every other year. If you worked on old cars and saw rusty pistons, you'd know why, but people also say that old brake fluid boils and won't stop you right.

The best way is the GRAVITY method. The only problem is it takes a lot of beer and you don't want to drive right after. (CAUTION: YOU MUST BE 21 TO BLEED YOUR BRAKES THIS WAY!)

1.) Get the car in a position where you can open up the bleeders. I always like to break them loose with a 6 point socket being careful not to break them off. If you can, spray them with breakaway or similar a day before.)
2) Starting with the bleeder futhest away from the master (pass. rear), open it about 1 turn. You can put a little hose and cup on it if you want to keep the old fluid from running all over. Make SURE to keep the master cylinder topped off with fluid and DON'T let it get down to where air gets back into the master cyl. Let it flow this way until the fluid comes out of the bleeder clean. This will take at least 2 cups or so of brake fluid. Using gravity alone, you can drink 2 beers while topping off the master cylinder for the first corner. (CAUTION: Do not store brake fluid in beer cans or put beer into master cyinder. Drinking a little brake fluid however will probably not kill you. Beer in your brake lines might.) Snug up bleeder good when you're done.
3.) Proceed to drivers rear and repeat. It won't take as long because the long brake line has already been purged of the old fluid. So you have to drink your beer faster.
4.) Pass front. Drink even faster.
5.) Drivers front. Etc.

Patience can be substituted for beers, but that's no fun.

This prevents the rubber pieces from going any further than they are used to and self destructing.
:cheers: "
 
hahahhahahahhah LMAO! i love that way!
 
Jeepcherokeeboy97 said:
i think he means he pumped it 5 times and then held it while someone opened the bleeder. i hope lol. i hope he knows it takes two people to bleed brakes lol :p
Click to expand...

wait a second. this takes 2 people?!!??

jk, yeah, my buddy pumped. i opereated the bleeder valve. pass rear, drivers rear, pass front, drivers front
 
from everything we covered im thinking its my master cylinder then. guess ill take my chances with a junkyard unit. ill post up how it goes.
 
winterbeater said:
So, #1, you make sure there are no signs of leakage. That means no use of brake fluid from the reservoir. #2, start vehicle and pump up brakes about 5-10 times and hole down pedal hard. If it goes down steadily, your master cylinder is shot - replace. If it holds, and you still need to pump the brakes to make them work, either your rear brakes are way out of adjustment or you have air in the lines. You've already bled them. Are you confident that you did this right? If so, my best guess at that point is the rear's are out of adjustment. They are supposed to be self adjusting, but that shit freezes up quite a bit, and even after I fixed mine, it seemed like the original self adjusting cable was made too long to adjust properly. The best is to take all this stuff apart (pull the drums off and lube it all up including dia-assembling the adjuster star wheel). But, thru the slots, you can tighten up the free play in the rear brakes which could be taking up more fluid than the stroke of the master cyl can displace. If you never did it before, you probably need to pop off the rear drums and look at everthing.
Click to expand...

X2 Good info!!
 
winterbeater said:
I'll just copy and past mine from an earlier thread, but this is for an evening bleed, not a morning one.

"That's why you don't bleed them that way. (and I'm not calling you stupid cause I did em that way for MANY years too). Called the kids or the old lady out and told em "pump it up and hold it down", and opened up the bleeder until the pedal went way down. There is a way easier way, but it takes longer. I use it whenever I replace brake cylinders or calipers, but mostly it's just to change the brake fluid, which I do whenever I change shoes or pads. Ideally you change brake fluid at least every other year. If you worked on old cars and saw rusty pistons, you'd know why, but people also say that old brake fluid boils and won't stop you right.

The best way is the GRAVITY method. The only problem is it takes a lot of beer and you don't want to drive right after. (CAUTION: YOU MUST BE 21 TO BLEED YOUR BRAKES THIS WAY!)

1.) Get the car in a position where you can open up the bleeders. I always like to break them loose with a 6 point socket being careful not to break them off. If you can, spray them with breakaway or similar a day before.)
2) Starting with the bleeder futhest away from the master (pass. rear), open it about 1 turn. You can put a little hose and cup on it if you want to keep the old fluid from running all over. Make SURE to keep the master cylinder topped off with fluid and DON'T let it get down to where air gets back into the master cyl. Let it flow this way until the fluid comes out of the bleeder clean. This will take at least 2 cups or so of brake fluid. Using gravity alone, you can drink 2 beers while topping off the master cylinder for the first corner. (CAUTION: Do not store brake fluid in beer cans or put beer into master cyinder. Drinking a little brake fluid however will probably not kill you. Beer in your brake lines might.) Snug up bleeder good when you're done.
3.) Proceed to drivers rear and repeat. It won't take as long because the long brake line has already been purged of the old fluid. So you have to drink your beer faster.
4.) Pass front. Drink even faster.
5.) Drivers front. Etc.

Patience can be substituted for beers, but that's no fun.

This prevents the rubber pieces from going any further than they are used to and self destructing.
:cheers: "
Click to expand...

X2 But I would leave the beer out cuz screwing this up can cost more than some cash!!:peace:
 
winterbeater said:
I'll just copy and past mine from an earlier thread, but this is for an evening bleed, not a morning one.

"That's why you don't bleed them that way. (and I'm not calling you stupid cause I did em that way for MANY years too). Called the kids or the old lady out and told em "pump it up and hold it down", and opened up the bleeder until the pedal went way down. There is a way easier way, but it takes longer. I use it whenever I replace brake cylinders or calipers, but mostly it's just to change the brake fluid, which I do whenever I change shoes or pads. Ideally you change brake fluid at least every other year. If you worked on old cars and saw rusty pistons, you'd know why, but people also say that old brake fluid boils and won't stop you right.

The best way is the GRAVITY method. The only problem is it takes a lot of beer and you don't want to drive right after. (CAUTION: YOU MUST BE 21 TO BLEED YOUR BRAKES THIS WAY!)

1.) Get the car in a position where you can open up the bleeders. I always like to break them loose with a 6 point socket being careful not to break them off. If you can, spray them with breakaway or similar a day before.)
2) Starting with the bleeder futhest away from the master (pass. rear), open it about 1 turn. You can put a little hose and cup on it if you want to keep the old fluid from running all over. Make SURE to keep the master cylinder topped off with fluid and DON'T let it get down to where air gets back into the master cyl. Let it flow this way until the fluid comes out of the bleeder clean. This will take at least 2 cups or so of brake fluid. Using gravity alone, you can drink 2 beers while topping off the master cylinder for the first corner. (CAUTION: Do not store brake fluid in beer cans or put beer into master cyinder. Drinking a little brake fluid however will probably not kill you. Beer in your brake lines might.) Snug up bleeder good when you're done.
3.) Proceed to drivers rear and repeat. It won't take as long because the long brake line has already been purged of the old fluid. So you have to drink your beer faster.
4.) Pass front. Drink even faster.
5.) Drivers front. Etc.

Patience can be substituted for beers, but that's no fun.

This prevents the rubber pieces from going any further than they are used to and self destructing.
:cheers: "
Click to expand...

A cheap and effecive bleeder is an old jar filled part way with brake fluid and a hose that fits the bleeder tightly. One end attach to bleeder, the other goes in the fluid. Crack the bleeder, and pump your brakes. The hose immersed in fluid will not allow air back in the system on the upstroke. When the line is clear, the hose will be free of bubbles (if you used a clear tube), and only fluid will exit the hose.

Also, if the OP replaced any brake cylinders, make sure the bleeders are at the TOP of the cylinder, not the bottom. Yes, I have heard of people installing them on the wrong side.

When you do rear brakes, you do not repeatedly back up to adjust them (That's Soooo Redneck, and sometimes not even effective). You put the rear on jackstands and adjust the adjuster though the backing plate so the rear brakes just drag, and back off a notch or two. Make sure the brakes are centered by applying the brakes before the proceedure. They make a tool for this, but a wide screwdriver works also.

You must get all the air out of the system, including the MC. At no time should you allow the MC to run dry. Do not tighten the cap down when bleeding brakes, but leave it on, but loose so it doesn't spatter fluid around and allows the system to burp air if needed.

I'm not sure of any precautions with an ABS systems.
 
One of the points though is that when you pump the brakes with the bleeder open, you are running the master cylinder rubber piston down into areas where it hasn't run before. The roughness or accumulated crud could damage the little sealing edge of the piston rubber. That's on of the reasons that the gravity bleed is better. Using a mityvac at the bleeders can have the same benefits and be quicker.
 
Are all 3 of your flex lines NEW?
Adjust the rears.
Did your caliper mounts have any wear(real common)?
 
winterbeater said:
So, #1, you make sure there are no signs of leakage. That means no use of brake fluid from the reservoir. ... If so, my best guess at that point is the rear's are out of adjustment.
Click to expand...

come to think of it the drivers rear cylinder did have some seepage when i puched the 2 pistons together to center the new shoes.

i believe i have adjusted the rears correctly. i took the adjuster apart and greased it.

you guys think this might be a good time to upgrade to WJ brakes or others?
 
tigerShark said:
i hate the idea of paying somebody for something i can do in my garage but thats not a bad price.
Click to expand...

I completely understand that. The only time my jeep see's someones garage is when i have to get it smogged!
 
tigerShark said:
come to think of it the drivers rear cylinder did have some seepage when i puched the 2 pistons together to center the new shoes.

i believe i have adjusted the rears correctly. i took the adjuster apart and greased it.

you guys think this might be a good time to upgrade to WJ brakes or others?
Click to expand...

You're wasting $35 for the Sears bleed . They're just trying to suck you in for the big brake job with golden linings. $35 buys a lot of brake fluid and beer. Didn't you read my gravity bleed? Believe! After you reassembled the rear breaks, did you reach in through the backing plate slot and turn the star wheel out until the brakes started to drag when you turned the drum (up on jack stands)? Then did you push the brake pedal again to reseat? Check for drag again. Open up the star wheel adjustment or close it up until there is only a small anount of drag. Then your rear wheels are adjusted right. Yea, I had a little bit of seepage in my rear too when I put on new shoes, but it's been good for another 6 months now. If the adjustment gets out too far, the pistons got out too far too. Once they are pushed back in to where they should operate, they will probably be good for a long while. Watch for seepage over the long term. If it's really bad, you'll see brake fluid on the inside of your wheels and tires. Then you need rear brake cylinders. (Which are the hardest part of brakes to do, but they are still easy.)

What symtoms are your actual problem right now?????????
 
just replace your MC. if the problem persists let us know
 
also, tiger, did you rule out the booster by trying my method?
 
So, if you think the master is bad, the symptoms would be pumping up the brake pedal 10 times and then holding it down and it goes to the floor. Is that what is happening? The normal test for the booster is to pump the brakes up good with the engine off, then start the engine. The brake pedal should go down a little as the booster gets vacuum. Then booster is good.

What are your current symptoms?
 
Here is what I use to bleed brakes I generally flush the system while I am at it since it only takes about a minute more and more fluid. I cannot say how much I love this system.
http://store.motiveproducts.com/shared/StoreFront/products.asp?CS=motive&CategoryID=7&Refresh=True

In addition whenever I get into brakes cause I hate having to do them over and over again I replace everything short of the drums, rotors and lines, proportioning valve and master cylinder; unless they need it or are suspect. Those spings inside the rear brakes do go bad and are cheap so why not replace them while your there. Also I am thinking that the issue is more in the slave cylinders on this one or the springs; or the proportioning valve.
 
forgot to update this thread.

i upgraded to a 98 MC and booster. i have to modify the pedal bracket to make it work. i basically made a hybrid of the 2 pedal brackets to allow it to mount properly.

i figured my old MC was bad. it was.

MAJOR improvement.
 
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