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Massively loud lifters - and a cure

T

TiRod

NAXJA Forum User
Location
SW MO
Ran into a problem a few months back - the lifters collapsed and began the "Death Rattle That Sounds Like a Diesel Truck." Searched and found a cure - frequent oil changes and Marvel Mystery Oil, which seemed to work.

But it came back, even worse. Change oil again. More MMO.

It came back again. Change, and more MMO.

What is the problem, I thought, I'm not getting the crud out of my oil, and it keeps coming back . . .

So I left it to slow cook in the back of my mind, until -

Ah, doofus, the coolant recovery does not need to consume two gallons of antifreeze over 6 weeks, does it? Where'd it go? That and a coupla other things, like 1) a/f mixing with oil creates sludge that clogs up tiny Jeep lifters 2) Water Wetter helps things like oil and water mix better because it breaks the surface tension of water, and it hides in the oil, duh.

I had a really slow head gasket leak.

Glass Sealed the coolant system and tried again, straight water. Result? No more Diesel Rattle, no coolant loss over the last 900 miles.

Much better. Very counter intuitive - but if you have lifter problems that are just not getting cured with an oil change and MMO, consider it. It's a lot easier to drop six of those little brown pills in the radiator and eliminate the problem. From what I hear, it's what the factory does to every vehicle before it rolls off the line. After 180k, it's good insurance.

FWIW.
 
Congratulations. I agree, the brown pills are much better than the blue pils, LOL. :laugh3:

So you used the seriously heavy duty head gasket silicate sealer then? And added the brown pellets? You did put antifreese / coolant back in it, right?
 
How does this help if I'm not loosing any coolant, just try the MMO and see what happens? I have that issue and my wafe said it's getting a little more noticeable with the warmer weather, guess next oil change I'll throw some MMO in it and see what happens.
 
I've seen ports in cylinder heads completely plugged shut with cooling system "fixes". The pills might be easy to drop in, but the damage they do is almost unrepairable. I think i'll stick to fixing it!
 
Porch951 said:
I've seen ports in cylinder heads completely plugged shut with cooling system "fixes". The pills might be easy to drop in, but the damage they do is almost unrepairable. I think i'll stick to fixing it!
Click to expand...

The brown fiber pressed pellets should not do that. Neither should the silicate "glass" treatment he refered to, when used, installed properly!!!!!

More than likely what you saw was the effect of tap water minerals mixed with (and thus reacted with) silicates from antifreeze / coolant, which forms calcium and magnesium silicate (AKA concrete) in large quantities, and CO2 combustion gas reducing the pH of the antifreeze / coolant to below 9.0 at which point all the silcate in the antifreeze / coolant precipitates as concrete.

Try adding some acetic acid (vinegar) to the old silcate formula of antifreeze till the pH drops to about 9.0 and you get a Jello that if allowed to dry forms about 20% concrete out of the original volume.

That said, one of the reasons more head gasket failures are not seen, is that any tiny ones that start are self sealing with the fiber pellets (same stuff the head gasket if made of) and silicates reacting with exhaust gases to seal and fill the leak. That is why OEM vehicles are (or at least were) filled with 6 pellets and silicate based antifreeze. Not sure what is in the new 5 year stuff these days. I try to find and still use the old stuff. I also change my antifreeze before the pH drops and it goes bad.

Head gasket sealer (liquid glass), quick fixes, just fix slightly larger leaks faster (up to a point, after some point the leak is too big even for sealer, then it's time for the wrenchs), but only if it is a coolant / head gasket combustion chamber leak. Not much good at stoping direct coolant into oil leaks.
 
id like to know too. where do ya get em at?
 
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Yeah, but why have that shit circulating if you dont HAVE to? I guess I can see it as a temporary fix, but I would probably only use it to get me home where I could change the failed part/gasket whatever.

And, I have seen radiators clog from Bars radiator stop leak. I do however use two cooling supplement tablets from my GM dealer in my Cutlass-but not to fix a leak.

Edit: Just a thought, how would urine act as a coolant?
 
I have been running that "shit" in all my engine coolant systems since 1978, with no problems. Never lost a radiator, heat exchanger, head hasket or water pump in all that time. I did have a few radiator leaks that reminded me to add the brown pellets. The pellets disolve into long thin fibers that are harmless to the cooling system. If you read all the things the fibers do on the Barsleaks web site, it explains all the advantages of having them, versus not having them in the system.

If you are really that concerned about bad stuff in the coolaing system, just get rid of the water too, as it promotes RUST! :eek: (LOL), as a friend of mine keeps reminding me every time I drink water instead of soda pop.

What kills radators and coolings systems is tap water and not changing antifreeze often enough, i.e. letting its pH drop too low. I usually replace mine every 4 years.

Urine would be quite corrosive. Why?


89CherokeePioneer said:
Yeah, but why have that shit circulating if you dont HAVE to? I guess I can see it as a temporary fix, but I would probably only use it to get me home where I could change the failed part/gasket whatever.

And, I have seen radiators clog from Bars radiator stop leak. I do however use two cooling supplement tablets from my GM dealer in my Cutlass-but not to fix a leak.

Edit: Just a thought, how would urine act as a coolant?
Click to expand...
 
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I've used Bars Leak numerous times over the years, no probs. Once I used Porter Seal to seal a heater core leak...that was a mistake...sealed the leak, but I think Porter Seal is nothing but sawdust and fish glue...man did it stink. It is good stuff, used it as a paste once to seel a boiler.
 
Ecomike said:
I have been running that "shit" in all my engine coolant systems since 1978, with no problems. Never lost a radiator, heat exchanger, head hasket or water pump in all that time. I did have a few radiator leaks that reminded me to add the brown pellets. The pellets disolve into long thin fibers that are harmless to the cooling system. If you read all the things the fibers do on the Barsleaks web site, it explains all the advantages of having them, versus not having them in the system.

If you are really that concerned about bad stuff in the coolaing system, just get rid of the water too, as it promotes RUST! :eek: (LOL), as a friend of mine keeps reminding me every time I drink water instead of soda pop.

What kills radators and coolings systems is tap water and not changing antifreeze often enough, i.e. letting its pH drop too low. I usually replace mine every 4 years.

Urine would be quite corrosive. Why?
Click to expand...

I was watching Pontiac Moon and Teds car overheated, so he tried urinating in the radiator.

I don't use tap water-I buy distilled. And about bars leaks website-here's a different question: Let's say you were shopping for a new Dodge Caravan, would you really give any merit to what the dealer had to say about reliability?

I haven't seen anything concrete about why to use or not to use sealants, except that I've seen them clog cooling systems at one point or another-Which is why unless I can't for whatever reason(money, inability) I fix the leak.
 
I wouldn't listen to a new or used car salesman, much less put any stock in what they said. I'd sooner try my luck at Lostwagesnevada :laugh3:. But I did the enjoy the movie "Used Cars"!:laugh3:

FYI, my background, and degree is Chemical Engineering. before that I formulated and sold snake oils as I like to call them jokingly, (specialty chemicals, oils, greases, plating chemicals, solvents.....to rebuilders, manufacturers and industry).

Back in 1992, I was working under a US DOE grant that I won, doing some research when I got the chance to talk to the head chemist / chemical engineer at Prestone in the R & D section of their lab about antifreeze formulas. He was the one that told me that no OEM car or water cooled machine (tractors, trucks, busses, ....etc) was shipped, nor had they been shipped since something like the 1920's with out six of those brown miracle pellets installed in the lower tank of the radiator of every new vehicle that left detroit. He said with out those pellets half the radiators would leak before they got out of warranty! He had been in the business at Prestone for about 35 years. In 1992 Prestone was playing around with a new Boron additive to replace silicates in their antifreeze which was the reason I contacted him at the time.

An old race car mecahnic from the 1930's told me they use to use black cracked pepper to seal leaks! Turns out the brown stuff and cracked pepper are very similar, fiber wise. The fibers lodge in the tiny crack, leak, and dry out with the silcates on the outside sealing the tiny leaks with a fiber/concrete like patch.

Nothing wrong with your approach, expecially if you have a 3" tree branch lodged in your radiator! :laugh3:



89CherokeePioneer said:
I was watching Pontiac Moon and Teds car overheated, so he tried urinating in the radiator.

I don't use tap water-I buy distilled. And about bars leaks website-here's a different question: Let's say you were shopping for a new Dodge Caravan, would you really give any merit to what the dealer had to say about reliability?

I haven't seen anything concrete about why to use or not to use sealants, except that I've seen them clog cooling systems at one point or another-Which is why unless I can't for whatever reason(money, inability) I fix the leak.
Click to expand...
 
Ecomike said:
An old race car mecahnic from the 1930's told me they use to use black cracked pepper to seal leaks! Turns out the brown stuff and cracked pepper are very similar, fiber wise. The fibers lodge in the tiny crack, leak, and dry out with the silcates on the outside sealing the tiny leaks with a fiber/concrete like patch.

I had an old '69 Ford truck that developed a pinhole leak on the way back down from the mountains. I Just so happened to have black pepper in the camping supplies, it actually worked to seal it up. A friend that was with me offered to urinate in my radiator to get us back, but I declined the "generous" offer :laugh: Anyway, the pepper flushed out with no problems, and I soldered the radiator the next day. Never had an issue with the cooling system for the remaining 5 years that I had the truck.
Click to expand...
 
I fixed my sticky lifters by switching to Mobil1 H.M. Syn. (10-30), some MMO, and seafoam before oil change.
I've also started placing small but very powerful magnets on outside of oil filter, filings still collecting even after 180k.
 
I used black pepper on my 78 Dodge SW back in 1981-82. It stopped the leak for 3 years with no problems. That was before I discovered the brown tablets. I switched to the tablets around 1985 or 86.
 
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