Lower shock mounting options

[Goatman]

just for clarity, are the JKS adapters mickey mouse too? and yes i admit this would have been a booty fab workaround.

but moving on...

are the shocks ends on heim end shocks bigger than bushing end shocks?

No, the JKS or the T & J upper shock adapters are not mickey mouse. However, they are both hard mounted to the body, and simply convert the hole for the stem mount to a bushing mount. It doesn't convert the shock, it converts the mount, then you use a bushing shock.

Nearly all higher end shocks come with heim joint ends. I think the non coil-over shocks, like 7100's, the ends are a little smaller than bushings, but all of the coil-over shocks and air shocks the ends are bigger because it isn't a heim joint on the end, it's an aluminum housing end that has a uniball (like a heim joint) pressed into the housing.

 

[old_man]

I figured out a way to handle the lower shock mount without too much fuss. Remember my goal was to get a good working setup without breaking the bank. I am a fabricator and have tools that not everybody has access to. While the tools may be expensive, they are paid for and don't cost me a dime. Like I said before, because of time, I am going to go with a standard mounting scheme for the moment, but I will fab up my idea when I get back from Moab.

One of my goals is to get the lower shock end off of the top of the arm and mounted lower. That is so I can use a longer shock. That coupled with the problem of binding was what I was asking for ideas on. Yes the problem can be solved by throwing money at it, but I would rather throw some thought and brains.

The solution takes advantage of the fact that there is a pivot bolt running through the arm horizontally at approximately where the shock should attach. I am simply going to fabricate up something like a cup that allows the standard eye or bar pin to connect up with the rotational axis perpendicular to the axle. Since the "cup" is mounted to the arm by the pivot bolt, it too can pivot. That gives me the ability of the cup to handle the droop issue and the shock eye to handle the flex. I will either fab it from some box tubing with welded in inserts or simply machine it out of a solid block. Luckily I happen to have a CNC in my garage.

Either way, my out of pocket will be probably less than $10 and can be used on both radius arms with a small amount of fabrication on the driver's side arm.

I will post up pix as soon as I get it fab'd.

 

[Clean Racing]

Since your a fab guy.. check out RCMan's build up in here and look how he did the upper mounts.. Whats a few bucks in steel and some of your time.. I am going the same route, except I am running a full hoop tied into the frame rail in the wheel well.. AND Don't really take what the "Buggy" crowd says too seriously.. they only play on rocks.. lets see em fly those things off sand dunes..

heres the link..http://www.naxja.org/forum/showpost.php?p=244393619&postcount=370

 

[Jes]

AND Don't really take what the "Buggy" crowd says too seriously.. they only play on rocks.. lets see em fly those things off sand dunes..

You're an idiot.

 

[Clean Racing]

You're an idiot.

and your point is?

 

[Phil]

David Taylor while testing and tuning his Team car for the King of Hammers Last Chance Qualifier that was held in February of this year:

Note the air under the tires.

 

[stewie]

what about something similar to a u-joint on the bottom allowing for movement on two axis?

 

[old_man]

That is the function I am looking for. I will see if I can draw it up in Solidworks and get it posted in a day or so.

 

[kastein]

wish the wrangling would stop... really didn't intend to open such a huge can of worms :scared:

old_man, sounds like a two-axis gimbal set, like what is used to keep a compass level on a ship or airplane. Interestingly, was first well documented by the same guy who the Cardan joint (a U-joint) and the double cardan joint (near-CV joint) are named after - Gerolamo Cardano.

 

[Letterman]

Note the air under the tires.

Note the keg stand dude in the back of the rig, I don't think he has a seat belt on, this could be un-safe!!!

hasta

 

[old_man]

wish the wrangling would stop... really didn't intend to open such a huge can of worms :scared:

old_man, sounds like a two-axis gimbal set, like what is used to keep a compass level on a ship or airplane. Interestingly, was first well documented by the same guy who the Cardan joint (a U-joint) and the double cardan joint (near-CV joint) are named after - Gerolamo Cardano.

That was basically what I was thinking about, the problem is in the implementation.

Nice piece of trivia. Two points.

 

[Porch Puppy]

Why is this in advanced fab?

 

[Goatman]

Since your a fab guy.. check out RCMan's build up in here and look how he did the upper mounts.. Whats a few bucks in steel and some of your time.. I am going the same route, except I am running a full hoop tied into the frame rail in the wheel well.. AND Don't really take what the "Buggy" crowd says too seriously.. they only play on rocks.. lets see em fly those things off sand dunes..

And response to a couple other comments.......



Really, this discussion went a little sideways with the suggestion of a home built mount to convert a bushing ended shock to a heim end shock, which really is a poor idea. I didn't comment on Tom's rant, but Dave's comment was directed towards the guy talking about doing that, better to buy the heim end shocks than mickey mouse some sort of conversion.......if you want heim end shocks. The whole concept of using heim end shocks to solve Tom's issue was simply brought up, but is not the soluton that he need's, with or without some kind of conversion. Even with a conversin that won't work, you'd still need to buy heim joints whic add to the cost, which is exactly what Tom is trying to avoid. Really, two discusions happened here which is typical of forum threads.

I have a buggy and a full bodied XJ. On my XJ I had exactly the same issue Tom is trying to resolve and solved it just like he islikely to solve it, by fabbing new mounts lower and outward of the LCA mount. While I agree with the content of the rant, I think he missed the point Dave was actually making. Also, FYI, my XJ buggy has finished two King of the Hammers races, top 10 one year, and we used our group of XJ buggies to practice, tune and pre-run. So, these buggies see plenty of speed and air time....not just crawl. While they are not full bodied anymore, they are definitely multi-purpose. I stacked all my camping gear on mine for a couple of extended Jeep camping trips this summer. I'm also about to start doing a 4" lift and 33" on my stock XJ. None of us like to be categorized, especially incorrectly.

 

[Clean Racing]

And response to a couple other comments.......



Really, this discussion went a little sideways with the suggestion of a home built mount to convert a bushing ended shock to a heim end shock, which really is a poor idea. I didn't comment on Tom's rant, but Dave's comment was directed towards the guy talking about doing that, better to buy the heim end shocks than mickey mouse some sort of conversion.......if you want heim end shocks. The whole concept of using heim end shocks to solve Tom's issue was simply brought up, but is not the soluton that he need's, with or without some kind of conversion. Even with a conversin that won't work, you'd still need to buy heim joints whic add to the cost, which is exactly what Tom is trying to avoid. Really, two discusions happened here which is typical of forum threads.

I have a buggy and a full bodied XJ. On my XJ I had exactly the same issue Tom is trying to resolve and solved it just like he islikely to solve it, by fabbing new mounts lower and outward of the LCA mount. While I agree with the content of the rant, I think he missed the point Dave was actually making. Also, FYI, my XJ buggy has finished two King of the Hammers races, top 10 one year, and we used our group of XJ buggies to practice, tune and pre-run. So, these buggies see plenty of speed and air time....not just crawl. While they are not full bodied anymore, they are definitely multi-purpose. I stacked all my camping gear on mine for a couple of extended Jeep camping trips this summer. I'm also about to start doing a 4" lift and 33" on my stock XJ. None of us like to be categorized, especially incorrectly.

I was going to suggest some kind of pillow ball type of set up, but it seems that this board is becoming a miniature pirate.. I understand Tom's concern with bind. but the stock shock with a stud and bar pin is outdated technology. But I see no reason why he has to buy expensive shocks to fix the issue. Since the stud mount is on top why not covert it over to a pillow ball set up that is run almost like a strut top plate for the shock. This would give the shock more flex than a rubber or poly bushing ever would. the bottom I would suggest some kind of similar set up eliminating the bar pin altogether. That is all.. No need to harp on a guy for not wanting to blow a grip of cash on shocks.. I personally have Fox 2.0's all around and will never look back to a stock type shock again... but then again what do I know..

 

[Goatman]

I was going to suggest some kind of pillow ball type of set up, but it seems that this board is becoming a miniature pirate.. I understand Tom's concern with bind. but the stock shock with a stud and bar pin is outdated technology. But I see no reason why he has to buy expensive shocks to fix the issue. Since the stud mount is on top why not covert it over to a pillow ball set up that is run almost like a strut top plate for the shock. This would give the shock more flex than a rubber or poly bushing ever would. the bottom I would suggest some kind of similar set up eliminating the bar pin altogether. That is all.. No need to harp on a guy for not wanting to blow a grip of cash on shocks.. I personally have Fox 2.0's all around and will never look back to a stock type shock again... but then again what do I know..

If you're responding to my comment, you missed my point.

As far as solving Tom's problem, he doesn't have any more of a problem than any of the rest of us have already had in the same situation, and we just made a new mount where we wanted it and ran a bolt through it.


From early in this thread:

Tom, it sounds like you've already figured every possibility. The only thing I see to do is figure which is the least deflection, horizontal or perpendicular to the axle tube, and then mount the shock that way. Don't overtighten the shock nut against the bushing so it can move without binding and go for it. Mounting the shock on the side of the control arm mount is a good option, mine on the XJ are that way.

I had to mount my shocks a little more outward, since the shock shaft would hit the frame when fully flexed out on the droop side, and would bend the shaft slightly, but I never had a shock shaft bend just from maxing out the bushing deflection.

Don't over think it..........it's been done before.