Lotsa questions for lotsa fixes

[shmicah]

My GF is traveling for a week, and is leaving me her car. So its time for a fixing spree on the 99 XJ! :explosion

I have a few questions about the different fixes I have planned, as well as looking for general advice. This is a placeholder and I will update over the next few days as I continue to read up.

The things I need to do:

1. Replace fan clutch/shroud
2. Replace harmonic balancer
3. Replace cracked exhaust manifold
4. Replace oil filter adapter seal
5. Replace battery cables (big 3 upgrade)
6. Replace Temperature sensor/sending unit

Fan Clutch:
Seems pretty straightforward. I ordered the Hayden 2625 clutch (this is my DD and don't want a loud ass fan).

Harmonic Balancer:
Sounds like a pain the ass. I'm gonna order a Mopar one tomorrow from the dealer, it sounds like this is one of the things you don't want to go aftermarket with. Also, getting the puller/installer from AutoZone or wherever.

While I'm at it - I understand I should replace the timing chain cover gasket. Just order a fel-pro one from Rockauto? Do I still need the black RTV gasket sealant?

Any point in doing rear main seal while I'm down there? Should I replace chain and sprockets too?


Replace cracked exhaust manifold:
Going with the APN Header. Will post more questions as I research this one.


Replace oil filter adapter seal:
Should I do the straight-out mod, or keep it at 90deg? Does the straight out mod require any major modifications?
I hear this is one of the worst XJ fixes. any tips?


Replace battery cables (big 3 upgrade):
I am still running the stock alternator (113A?). I bought 4 AWG welding cable, and tin-plated copper terminals. I plan to do this all myself using the crimp and solder tools at my work.

I was thinking I may as well upgrade the alternator and do the 136A upgrade. Is this stupid? I have 188k miles, and stock alternator. I've replaced almost everything else electrical - why not replace the alternator while I'm working in there? I plan to put in a nice stereo/sub setup and possibly upgraded headlights at some point. Never a winch or anything like that. Is this a good/bad idea?



Replace Temperature sensor/sending unit:
Recently, my temperature sensor stopped updating, and is always sitting just over 100. I assume(hope) it is the front sensor - but I haven't read up much on this yet. MY understanding is my 99 only has the t-stat housing on the front which is hte sensor and sending unit. I should start with jsut replacing sensor and not mess with housing/sender unless I know it is broken.



Thanks for everyone's help with the million questions.

 

[Ou2mame]

For the oil adapter seal, i was reading that people have trouble getting a tool in there. I can use a regular socket with one of those serp belt bars with the socket attachment on the end. I'm going to go it my next oil change, but I can get the tool on there at least lol

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[Original_MudButt]

I make a bolt removal tool for the oil filter adapter that makes this task a breeze. it's the T60 Torx style. I have three of them sitting on the bench at work. The cost is $20.00 and you pay for shipping. I don't make any profit on these (in fact I'm losing money, but I do it for members of this forum). I use the flat rate shipping boxes.
As far as the straight out mod, I've never heard of it, sorry...

Harmonic balancer is easier if the radiator is out.

Timing chain cover gasket is up to you. Is it leaking? You will need to replace the crank seal though. If you pull the cover you will need RTV. Just be careful you don't tear the oil pan gasket at the bottom corner/s when removing it like I did. Unless you can hear the chain slapping around it's hard to tell if it needs replacing until the cover is removed. If it deflects 1/2" or more it needs to be replaced (I think it's 1/2", check your FSM). I just did mine and the truck idles smooth as butter now.

Rear main seals are notorious for leaking on these. I did mine without any problems. Search around for a write up. I hear one of the biggest problems is getting the pan out on a stock height vehicle because of the front axle. I didn't have that problem with 4.5" of lift. It's a bit tedious and you have to be VERY careful not to scratch the crank. The rear bearing cap has to be removed, so you'll need a torque wrench to reinstall it.

 

[chemsolder]

I just did my oil filter adapter not long ago. I understand that going straight out somertimes results in the filter hitting the rail and causing problems at times. You also can't run a larger filter if you do it. I personally like the larger filter.

I wouldn't do the RMS if I were only pulling the timing cover, unless it is leaking. It is a pita getting the oil pan out at stock height, drop the trackbar and loosen shocks to get more droop kind of thing. If you do it an inspection mirror to make sure you get the oil pan gasket where it needs to be is one of the best tips I have seen. Saw it from someone here and I am greatful I did.

Considering all the repairs you are looking at an engine pull may not be out of the question, if you are equipped. It would sure facilitate checking other things while you are in there. I wish I were equipped to do one and I would have for my last engine seal and gasket replacement. Would have added a timing chain set and harmonic balancer and header if I did it that way.

 

[shmicah]

I make a bolt removal tool for the oil filter adapter that makes this task a breeze. it's the T60 Torx style. I have three of them sitting on the bench at work. The cost is $20.00 and you pay for shipping. I don't make any profit on these (in fact I'm losing money, but I do it for members of this forum). I use the flat rate shipping boxes.

Appreciate the offer - I'll probably give it a shot with what I have and if it doesn't look good I'll hit you up.

Harmonic balancer is easier if the radiator is out.

Timing chain cover gasket is up to you. Is it leaking? You will need to replace the crank seal though. If you pull the cover you will need RTV. Just be careful you don't tear the oil pan gasket at the bottom corner/s when removing it like I did. Unless you can hear the chain slapping around it's hard to tell if it needs replacing until the cover is removed. If it deflects 1/2" or more it needs to be replaced (I think it's 1/2", check your FSM). I just did mine and the truck idles smooth as butter now.

I guess I should read my FSM on timing chain cover - didn't realize there was a difference between crank seal and cover gasket.

Rear main seals are notorious for leaking on these. I did mine without any problems. Search around for a write up. I hear one of the biggest problems is getting the pan out on a stock height vehicle because of the front axle. I didn't have that problem with 4.5" of lift. It's a bit tedious and you have to be VERY careful not to scratch the crank. The rear bearing cap has to be removed, so you'll need a torque wrench to reinstall it.

I'll probably just clean it up and watch for leaks. I don't think I have any as I have not seen any oil on my garage floor after fixing some other leaks.

I just did my oil filter adapter not long ago. I understand that going straight out sometimes results in the filter hitting the rail and causing problems at times. You also can't run a larger filter if you do it. I personally like the larger filter.

Sounds like its not worth the effort. I run stock filter but I do remember reading about it being a tight fit in there.

Considering all the repairs you are looking at an engine pull may not be out of the question, if you are equipped. It would sure facilitate checking other things while you are in there. I wish I were equipped to do one and I would have for my last engine seal and gasket replacement. Would have added a timing chain set and harmonic balancer and header if I did it that way.

What do I need to be equipped for pulling the engine? I've googled around a bit, but I have some questions on this aside from the actual pulling.

My garage isn't exactly huge, and I don't have a heavy duty work bench - I just use a card table to put all my tools and stuff on.

If I pull the engine, I will need to roll it out away from the Jeep body. Then can I work on the engine while it is suspended from the chains - or am I supposed to move it to a bench or holder of some sort? I don't exactly have tons of room in front of my Jeep to roll this thing and still be able to close my garage door (maybe 3-4 feet before the lip up in my garage floor).

What else am I missing with respect to this? Pulling the engine feels like next-level garage mechanic stuff.


And another question - occasionally, after driving my jeep around enough to get full temp - I will turn it off to run a quick errand. When I get back in and try to start it barely turns over and seems to shudder a bit. It does actually turn, but its like the combustion in each cylinder is at 10% - juuuust enough to turn over to the next cycle. I can give it gas and it will then come up strong. Or I can let off the ignition, and try again and it fires up no problem. This has happened to me maybe 3 times in the past 4-5 months, so its uncommon. I was also driving up some very steep hills recently where I had to really put on the accelerator to maintain speed. One hill in particular I basically had to give WOT to climb. After that my car felt like it was missing/shuddering a bit while driving (gas pedal would go soft and engine would choke/stutter). Outside of this, I have had no issues with it, especially once it is running it works like a champ.

I'm thinking CPS or TPS. Any thoughts on if this sounds like the right area? I have a DMM so I'll test them soon but curious what people think.

I've replaced a lot on the Jeep recently - spark plugs/wires, distributor and cap/rotor, fuel line between to rail, fuel injectors, starter, cleaned IAC/TB/MAPS, new battery, and some other non-electrical stuff.

Thanks again for everyone's input.

 

[Original_MudButt]

If you do it an inspection mirror to make sure you get the oil pan gasket where it needs to be is one of the best tips I have seen. Saw it from someone here and I am greatful I did.

Zip-ties.

 

[lazyxj]

Zip-ties.

I'm old enough to have been born before zip-ties.
I was taught to use heavy sewing thread to 'sew' the pan gasket in place.
Works well, since the thread is so thin, it doesn't need to be remove.

 

[lazyxj]

What do I need to be equipped for pulling the engine? I've googled around a bit, but I have some questions on this aside from the actual pulling.

My garage isn't exactly huge, and I don't have a heavy duty work bench - I just use a card table to put all my tools and stuff on.
What else am I missing with respect to this? Pulling the engine feels like next-level garage mechanic stuff.

And another question - occasionally, after driving my jeep around enough to get full temp - I will turn it off to run a quick errand. When I get back in and try to start it barely turns over and seems to shudder a bit.

I was also driving up some very steep hills recently where I had to really put on the accelerator to maintain speed. One hill in particular I basically had to give WOT to climb. After that my car felt like it was missing/shuddering a bit while driving (gas pedal would go soft and engine would choke/stutter).
I'm thinking CPS or TPS. Any thoughts on if this sounds like the right area? I have a DMM so I'll test them soon but curious what people think.

The repairs you listed do not require the engine to be remove.
Pulling an engine is a little more advance and having a good place to do it is important. You will need a engine hoist and, just as importantly, an engine stand.
You can't do good work on an engine hanging from a chain.

You many be experience a hot soak problem with your XJ.

I have experienced similar uphill problems. One was a bad TPS, which caused dead spots.
A weak fuel pump can also cause uphill problems, it can be tested with an inexpensive fuel pump pressure gauge.

 

[JeepNoob]

When I replaced the oil filter adapter O-rings on my '96, I just bought a cheap T60 socket and knocked the bit out the front. From there, you can place it onto the bolt and use a combination wrench to turn the hex back half of the bit. Had to use a cheater pipe on the wrench on mine though. That was... interesting, especially since I was working on the ground.

 

[lazyxj]

When I replaced the oil filter adapter O-rings on my '96, I just bought a cheap T60 socket and knocked the bit out the front. From there, you can place it onto the bolt and use a combination wrench to turn the hex back half of the bit. Had to use a cheater pipe on the wrench on mine though. That was... interesting, especially since I was working on the ground.

This is the method I found here on the Forum, years ago, and have used on several 4.0s. It is the only way, on some models, to access the Torx head bolt, since the clearance is so limited.
Every one of them has been extremely tight, where a cheater was required.
IMO, it is the preferred way to do it.

 

[Ou2mame]

Should you drive it for a while to heat it up?

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[shmicah]

Timing chain cover gasket is up to you. Is it leaking? You will need to replace the crank seal though. If you pull the cover you will need RTV. Just be careful you don't tear the oil pan gasket at the bottom corner/s when removing it like I did. Unless you can hear the chain slapping around it's hard to tell if it needs replacing until the cover is removed. If it deflects 1/2" or more it needs to be replaced (I think it's 1/2", check your FSM). I just did mine and the truck idles smooth as butter now.

By crank seal, are you referring to the timing cover seal?
http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/jeep,1999,cherokee,4.0l+l6,1431776,engine,timing+cover+seal,5612

When I go to crankshaft seal on Rockauto, I see one "front" seal, and lots of rear main seals:
http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/jeep,1999,cherokee,4.0l+l6,1431776,engine,crankshaft+seal,5604

the only "front" seal is National brand, and does look similar to the timing cover seals:
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=253999&cc=1431776&jsn=530

My plan is to go ahead and pull/replace the timing cover and gaskets while I'm down there, and to check the chain while I'm at it. If it is looking sloppy I will buy a replacement. Should I get Mopar chain/sprockets or have people had success with aftermarket?

I will also just get the FelPro Timing Cover gasket set:
http://www.amazon.com/Fel-Pro-TCS-45458-Timing-Gasket/dp/B000CNH7VU


EDIT:
Since I am replacing HB, I don't need to worry about the HB repair sleeve correct?

And that sleeve is different from the crank seal sleeve that comes in the FelPro kit above. That crank seal sleeve is what they are talking about in this thread on wrangler forum?
http://www.wranglerforum.com/f210/front-crankshaft-seal-593298.html

"You will need the metal sleeve, it slides on your crank end and provides a new surface for the seal to seat on. If you feel your crank end surface there will probably be some variations due to seal wear. There should be a sealant in the kit to install the sleeve."



@lazyXJ - thanks for the info. Went ot dealer for TPS and it was like $165! Guess I will troubleshoot it first..

 

[lazyxj]

No one has asked, why are you replacing the harmonic balancer" Is it coming apart?
Same goes for the front cover, is it leaking, do you suspect the timing chain is worn? How many miles on the engine?
I have seen 4.0s with 200,000+ miles on the stock chain and gears, without excessive wear.

If you pull the front cover, get the FEL-PRO TCS45117 kit, it includes the gaskets and seal, minus the repair sleeve.

 

[shmicah]

No one has asked, why are you replacing the harmonic balancer" Is it coming apart?
Same goes for the front cover, is it leaking, do you suspect the timing chain is worn? How many miles on the engine?
I have seen 4.0s with 200,000+ miles on the stock chain and gears, without excessive wear.

If you pull the front cover, get the FEL-PRO TCS45117 kit, it includes the gaskets and seal, minus the repair sleeve.

Fair questions.

I poated a few months back while replacing distributor and shared a pic of my HB. It looks to be on its way out. I also get a minor wobble on my belt and very rough idle with occassional squeal from belt on start.

For the other stuff you mentioned, I don't know for sure if they have problems (especially the chain). When I was under the car last doing my starter motor, there were oil drops all over the place around oil filter, HB, and other places. Im trying to catch as many possible sources of oil leak as possible and I underatnd timing cover and oil filter adapter are common culprits in that area. i already did valve cover and that made a huge difference.

I dont get many opportunities to work on my car for extended periods, so I try to knock out as much as possible.

I have 188000 miles on the engine, but ive had it since i was 16 (13 years ago) and I rarely had routine maintenance so i assume the worst when I start workin on things. It overheated from a clogged radiator a few years ago and blew a coolant hose. I drove it overheating for months before it finally blew. I know that is kinda irrelevant to the things we are looking at now but just giving backstory.

I am hoping to get at least a few more years out it as my DD so even if I fix things that may not need it yet, its much cheaper than a new car payment (is my mindset).

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[shmicah]

Ok... one fix leads to another.

I've decided that since I am removing my radiator and such, I may as well update all of the cooling system. It needs it.

I bought:
CSF 3 row radiator
Gates 19038 and 19039 heater hose (1x each)
new coolant reservoir bottle
Gates 42004 Water Pump (and gasket)
Dorman 56398 Water Pump Inlet Tube
Gates Upper/Lower Radiator Hose
Already have new 195 thermostat

What is the long hose that goes from recovery tank to radiator?
I'll grab new hose clamps at advance autoparts.

Am I missing anything? What is this water outlet/thermostat housing I see on rockauto? Is is the housing/sending unit for the 195 thermostat? Should I go ahead and replace?

When I flush the system, since just about everything is new, I only need to worry about flushing the engine block and heater core- right? Is it possible to do this with a garden hose and not need to run the engine? I'd rather not put everything back together with my old gear, run a flush then tear it all down and replace with new equipment. But if that's my only alternative to flushing old junk into my new radiator and pump then I guess I will...

Appreciate the advice!

 

[Original_MudButt]

Yes, the "timing cover seal" is actually what most refer to as the front crankshaft seal. I have a brand new one sitting on the bench at home. I'll toss in the box for you.

The water outlet/thermostat housing is just that. It houses the thermostat. Hard to say what condition it's in until you remove it.

The Water Pump Inlet Tube is usually just swapped from the old one, unless yours is shot. Be sure and use Teflon. I prefer the paste. And DO NOT over tighten it. You'll crack the water pump if you do.

I have 140,000 miles on my '98 and the chain was at it's limit. Made just a little noise and idle was all over the place.

 

[shmicah]

Yes, the "timing cover seal" is actually what most refer to as the front crankshaft seal. I have a brand new one sitting on the bench at home. I'll toss in the box for you.


Appreciate it!

The water outlet/thermostat housing is just that. It houses the thermostat. Hard to say what condition it's in until you remove it.
Since they are 8 bucks I went ahead and ordered a replacement.

The Water Pump Inlet Tube is usually just swapped from the old one, unless yours is shot. Be sure and use Teflon. I prefer the paste. And DO NOT over tighten it. You'll crack the water pump if you do.
Good to know, thanks for tip.

I have 140,000 miles on my '98 and the chain was at it's limit. Made just a little noise and idle was all over the place.
I feel my chain will be at its limit as well. Since I have to remove timing cover to remove crank seal oil slinger for the new HB, I now have an excuse to check it out. I have tried all sorts of things to sort my idle out, but it still fluctuates between ~500 and 900. Only things I haven't done is replace TPS or CPS.

If I end up going with a new chain/sprockets - should I go Mopar or are there any aftermarkets known to be as good?

I appreciate all of your help MuddButt - let me know how/when to pay you for the FA tool.

 

[Original_MudButt]

If I end up going with a new chain/sprockets - should I go Mopar or are there any aftermarkets known to be as good?

I bought mine from Morris. It's made by Crown. Seems to work fine.

 

[Original_MudButt]

I have tried all sorts of things to sort my idle out, but it still fluctuates between ~500 and 900. Only things I haven't done is replace TPS or CPS.

Well, mine wasn't that bad, maybe 650-750 rpm. But it was noticeable. I didn't change the TPS, but I did put in a new Mopar CPS... After the new timing chain I have to look at the tach when I'm stoppped at red lights because I could swear the engine has shut off... It's that smooth.

 

[shmicah]

Got the TC off and the chain easily has 1/2" slack and the guide was broken, so going to pick up a new set now.

The inside of the timing cover is filthy with oil all gummed up on the block side (behind the chain). The inside of the cover looks very dark and burned.

I know I need to clean the mating surfaces where the new gasket will go, should I also scrape all the gunk off the block behind the timing set? Should I try to scrub it clean as well with some brake cleaner or engine degreaser? I know I should block the gap between the timing cover and pan below, but I'm paranoid about using solvents given its location.

As for reinstalling the TC without the Mopar tool, I see online people talk about partially installing the TC (finger tight bolts), then install HB all the way on. Once its on, remove the HB and finish all of the bolts on the TC, then put HB back on.

Is this so the TC is pressed flat against the block and not slid or moved around when trying to push it on? IE to prevent gasket movement?


Hoping to get it all installed tonight, so I appreciate your help!