Just drove a Dodge CTD, Chevy Duramax, and a Ford Powerstroke......impressions.....

[old_man]

Re: Just drove a Dodge CTD, Chevy Duramax, and a Ford Powerstroke......impressions.....

As far as insurance goes, my insurance company has real cheap rates on multiple vehicles and has a special rate for very low mileage usage on particular vehicles if you have more than one vehicle. They have an recreational vehicle use only rate that is about 40% of normal for usages of less than about 4k miles a year or so. In Colorado, a new truck can cost you damn near a grand for license plates for the first year. One that is 8 years old may only be $100. My 85XJ costs me $24.

 

[96xjeeper]

Re: Just drove a Dodge CTD, Chevy Duramax, and a Ford Powerstroke......impressions.....

Two vehicles is always an option, but then they both need to be registared and insured and you get into much higher dollars. I drive a Dodge 1ton 2 wheel drive as my DD and as my tow rig. Right now I am at aropund 44,000 miles. There is NOTHING I would wanna tow that this thing won't tow, and on DD duties I pull between 18-22 MPG depending on local or HWY. Yes it is a truck, and yes it is a HD, but I love it all the same and wouldn't trade it. :roll:

 

[SeanP]

Re: Just drove a Dodge CTD, Chevy Duramax, and a Ford Powerstroke......impressions.....

My thinking is that most of us don't tow that much. Pick up an older/cheaper rig just as a tow vehicle and then pick up a vehicle that will give you mileage as a DD. You can probably get both for less than a HD truck and the associated mileage and insurance.

Ding, ding, ding!! We have a winner here.

Tow rig=Smog exempt 75 3/4 ton Chevy Camper Special with the 14bolt and 1 ton brakes and springs. Built TH400 (yeah, I would like a 700R4 with the lock-up converter), rebuilt 350 with RV cam, nice re-done interior and the entire steering, suspension and brakes gone thru. Even a kick-butt stereo. $1600

DD=93 altima, 27MPG. Ice cold air. 143K miles, just as much power as the day I drove it off the lot. Sold it to step-dad who grenaded the 5 speed, he gave it back to me free as a parts car. $600 later with new CV shafts, new 5 sp, and new battery it's a totally reliable DD that is rock solid at 90 MPH+.

So for $2200, I have all my bases covered and my insurance is negligible. And my neighbors love me for my white trash vehicle collection. I am up to 5 now with the latest 87 blown 5.0 Saleen project.

Cars/new tow rigs are a huge friggin waste of money. Buy old. (Sorry Goatman)

SeanP

 

[Goatman]

Re: Just drove a Dodge CTD, Chevy Duramax, and a Ford Powerstroke......impressions.....

Ding, ding, ding!! We have a winner here.

Tow rig=Smog exempt 75 3/4 ton Chevy Camper Special with the 14bolt and 1 ton brakes and springs. Built TH400 (yeah, I would like a 700R4 with the lock-up converter), rebuilt 350 with RV cam, nice re-done interior and the entire steering, suspension and brakes gone thru. Even a kick-butt stereo. $1600

DD=93 altima, 27MPG. Ice cold air. 143K miles, just as much power as the day I drove it off the lot. Sold it to step-dad who grenaded the 5 speed, he gave it back to me free as a parts car. $600 later with new CV shafts, new 5 sp, and new battery it's a totally reliable DD that is rock solid at 90 MPH+.

So for $2200, I have all my bases covered and my insurance is negligible. And my neighbors love me for my white trash vehicle collection. I am up to 5 now with the latest 87 blown 5.0 Saleen project.

Cars/new tow rigs are a huge friggin waste of money. Buy old. (Sorry Goatman)

SeanP

Remember, I work at a dealership, but I'm the USED CAR manager.

Look above, I made the same recommendation as you. My tow rig has 116k miles and it runs like new. I like teasing a couple of the guys I work with who have new Power Strokes, roughly $40k, and my $5k F250 does basically the same as their's......but without the better mileage.

 

[Safari Ary]

Re: Just drove a Dodge CTD, Chevy Duramax, and a Ford Powerstroke......impressions.....

Sean, I thought you had a 3 series? I've always wanted a 3-series, maybe I should buy one of them and an old tow-rig. Hmmmm.

Ary

 

[PA Highlander]

... I know people who have towed jeeps with an F150 with the 4.6L and they thought the power was fine, and the tow rating is within the specs needed for a jeep on a trailer...

That'd be my arrangement now ... I have a 2000 F150 supercab shortbed with the 4.6L and auto as my daily driver and tow rig. On the highway the truck gets around 17 mpg. I have a 2200 lb 24' tandem car trailer with electric brakes that I use for Jeep hauling. When I brought my totaled XJ back from RI I got 9 mpg, bringing the current YJ home I got 12 mpg. The 4.6L did fine out on the highway and only really bogged down on long steep grades in the mountains.

All that being said ... my next DD/Tow rig will be a PowerStroke. The diesel mileage is much better and I like trucks to act like trucks. Of course I will not be buying a new one - I'll let the first owner take that hit and I'll buy used. Diesels have a long life if cared for so no worries there.

 

[SeanP]

Re: Just drove a Dodge CTD, Chevy Duramax, and a Ford Powerstroke......impressions.....

Sean, I thought you had a 3 series? I've always wanted a 3-series, maybe I should buy one of them and an old tow-rig. Hmmmm.

Ary

Sold the M3 a while back. Babies have a tendancy to make sports cars go away

Richard, have you calculated how many miles you would have to drive in order for the power strokes $35K price difference to pay for itself with the increase milage? I just did:

PSD @ 20 MPG assuming fuel costs of $2.25/gal=$.112 per mile
Old Beater big block @ 12 MPG, fuel @ $2.25/gal=$.1875 per mile

Net difference of $.0775 per mile fule consumption costs. The $35,000 price difference between the price of your truck and the tricked out F250 PSD gets divided by the $.0075 to show you where the break even point of the extra milage comes into play. 451612 miles.

Remember, your accountant will remind you that the above formula doesn't assume depreciation of the newer vehicle compared to your vehicle. That changes the scenario even more. Lets assume that the PSD loses 50% of its value after 5 years (for a market value of $20K) but your 95 only loses another 25% ($1250 or a market value of $3850). Add the difference of depreciation in and you get a total cost basis on the PSD of $35K+20K-$1250=$53850. The breakeven point at this price is 694,838 miles. Given that my tow rig will be driven about 8,000 miles a year, it would take 86 years to come close to that breakeven point.

This makes it really tough to justify a new diesel tow rig over an old cheap tow rig. You guys can pass me going up I-80. I'll be in the CalTrans-orange chevy winding out in 2nd gear going 50MPH

SeanP

 

[BrettM]

Re: Just drove a Dodge CTD, Chevy Duramax, and a Ford Powerstroke......impressions.....

Sold the M3 a while back. Babies have a tendancy to make sports cars go away

Richard, have you calculated how many miles you would have to drive in order for the power strokes $35K price difference to pay for itself with the increase milage? I just did:

PSD @ 20 MPG assuming fuel costs of $2.25/gal=$.112 per mile
Old Beater big block @ 12 MPG, fuel @ $2.25/gal=$.1875 per mile

Net difference of $.0775 per mile fule consumption costs. The $35,000 price difference between the price of your truck and the tricked out F250 PSD gets divided by the $.0075 to show you where the break even point of the extra milage comes into play. 451612 miles.

Remember, your accountant will remind you that the above formula doesn't assume depreciation of the newer vehicle compared to your vehicle. That changes the scenario even more. Lets assume that the PSD loses 50% of its value after 5 years (for a market value of $20K) but your 95 only loses another 25% ($1250 or a market value of $3850). Add the difference of depreciation in and you get a total cost basis on the PSD of $35K+20K-$1250=$53850. The breakeven point at this price is 694,838 miles. Given that my tow rig will be driven about 8,000 miles a year, it would take 86 years to come close to that breakeven point.

This makes it really tough to justify a new diesel tow rig over an old cheap tow rig. You guys can pass me going up I-80. I'll be in the CalTrans-orange chevy winding out in 2nd gear going 50MPH

SeanP

i can't believe you did all that math just to prove your point :laugh3:

and what's with it with selling sports cars when kids come along? my dad sold his '65 Mustand (289, 4spd, black leather) and my best friends dad sold his Stingray... seems like everyone's dad did.

 

[GSequoia]

Re: Just drove a Dodge CTD, Chevy Duramax, and a Ford Powerstroke......impressions.....

Sold the M3 a while back. Babies have a tendancy to make sports cars go away

Richard, have you calculated how many miles you would have to drive in order for the power strokes $35K price difference to pay for itself with the increase milage? I just did:

PSD @ 20 MPG assuming fuel costs of $2.25/gal=$.112 per mile
Old Beater big block @ 12 MPG, fuel @ $2.25/gal=$.1875 per mile

Net difference of $.0775 per mile fule consumption costs. The $35,000 price difference between the price of your truck and the tricked out F250 PSD gets divided by the $.0075 to show you where the break even point of the extra milage comes into play. 451612 miles.

Remember, your accountant will remind you that the above formula doesn't assume depreciation of the newer vehicle compared to your vehicle. That changes the scenario even more. Lets assume that the PSD loses 50% of its value after 5 years (for a market value of $20K) but your 95 only loses another 25% ($1250 or a market value of $3850). Add the difference of depreciation in and you get a total cost basis on the PSD of $35K+20K-$1250=$53850. The breakeven point at this price is 694,838 miles. Given that my tow rig will be driven about 8,000 miles a year, it would take 86 years to come close to that breakeven point.

This makes it really tough to justify a new diesel tow rig over an old cheap tow rig. You guys can pass me going up I-80. I'll be in the CalTrans-orange chevy winding out in 2nd gear going 50MPH

SeanP

My brain hurts...

 

[Grant]

Re: Just drove a Dodge CTD, Chevy Duramax, and a Ford Powerstroke......impressions.....

I realize that a HD truck is a HD truck and should ride and handle like one. I would expect a stiff ride, especially from the rear, and non-sportscar like handling. However the interior of the Ford was just unacceptable for a truck that costs 43k dollars. The Dodge and Chevy interiors were much more plush, which helped to mask the stiff ride of the HD chassis' and their associated properties.

Ary

It's a bloody truck. If you want luxury buy a goddamn SUV, but expect it to tow like crap. If you want a decent tow vehicle buy a truck and stop bitchin about the interior.

People like you are the reason car manufacturer's are making "car like SUV's". I want to be a poser with a SUV but the most offroading it is going to see is when my wife drives over the lawn edging. Can you make my SUV more like a car? I can barely drive, and driving a big SUV scares me, can you make my truck more car like? Can you make my truck more luxurious?

Goddamn pu**ies.
It's a truck, it's not meant to be luxurious. It's not meant to be a DD unless you do a "man's" job like construction or ranching.

Sell your Jeep and buy a bloody hybrid. Is that enough luxury for you?

 

[SeanP]

Re: Just drove a Dodge CTD, Chevy Duramax, and a Ford Powerstroke......impressions.....

At this point in this evenings broadcast, we would like to apologize to our viewers as Grant is drunk again. Please stand by...



SeanP

 

[Grant]

Re: Just drove a Dodge CTD, Chevy Duramax, and a Ford Powerstroke......impressions.....

At this point in this evenings broadcast, we would like to apologize to our viewers as Grant is drunk again. Please stand by...



SeanP

Sean

Has that XJ of yours left the garage anytime in the last two years? :looser:

I may be drinkin the ether but that XJ of mine does see the trails - damn web wheelers. :spin1:

As a PSD owner who will see over 20K miles of towing this year, I think I am somewhat qualified to rant on this thread. :soapbox:

My priorities in a tow vehicle are
- diesel. gas motors are not for towing, how many 18 wheelers are gas powered? And guess what? a diesel makes a bit more noise - so f*****n what?
- space. Double cab or King cab is a must, even with just two of us. Need secure space for tools, cooler boxes, helmets, safety gear. Also need a decent truck bed for up to three sets of race wheels and tires, two nitrogen tanks, other racing crap
- 4x4. Live in CO in the foothills, 2WD sucks, I also own a 2WD PSD dually that is useless in the snow
- power. If you are going to tow a lot, decent power is a must. Occassionally I tow an enclosed two car trailer that is almost 15K pounds loaded.
- Radio. Need something to drown the "horrible, noisy diesel", right?

Did you see any mention of electric windows, heated or leather seats, plush carpets, bling-bling wheels? Of course not, they mean sh*t when it comes to a decent tow vehicle. But maybe the web-wheelers, or web-tow vehicle operators have not realized that yet.

just don't tell Eagle that I tow at 80mph (or worse). Towing at the speed limit or less will get you flattened on I-80 in Wyoming. The state patrol will stop you to see if anything is wrong if you are travelleing at 65 or less.

Grant
not drunk yet, but it's almost lunch so I can solve that soon.

 

[SeanP]

Re: Just drove a Dodge CTD, Chevy Duramax, and a Ford Powerstroke......impressions.....

I will be wheeling this weekend for the first time since I saw you last

But,I have had other priorities in the last 18months.

Will we see you this August on the Sierra Chapter runs?

I have PSD envy, but my finances right now don't allow for the bling tow rig. My El Cheapo chevy will do just fine for the 5-8 times a year it needs to tow.

SeanP

 

[Safari Ary]

Re: Just drove a Dodge CTD, Chevy Duramax, and a Ford Powerstroke......impressions.....

It's a bloody truck. If you want luxury buy a goddamn SUV, but expect it to tow like crap. If you want a decent tow vehicle buy a truck and stop bitchin about the interior.

People like you are the reason car manufacturer's are making "car like SUV's". I want to be a poser with a SUV but the most offroading it is going to see is when my wife drives over the lawn edging. Can you make my SUV more like a car? I can barely drive, and driving a big SUV scares me, can you make my truck more car like? Can you make my truck more luxurious?

Goddamn pu**ies.
It's a truck, it's not meant to be luxurious. It's not meant to be a DD unless you do a "man's" job like construction or ranching.

Sell your Jeep and buy a bloody hybrid. Is that enough luxury for you?

I never said I wanted luxury. If I did I would have driven the models with leather and all the amenities. However, I don't see why owning/driving a HD truck needs to feel and sound the same as driving a damn school bus, which is what the Ford felt like. My question to you is, why do comfort and strength/durability have to be mutually exclusive.

Oh, and BTW, I'm in construction, so I guess that means it's acceptable to be a DD since it's a "man's job"??

 

[Drake00XJ]

Re: Just drove a Dodge CTD, Chevy Duramax, and a Ford Powerstroke......impressions.....

I agree with the old man. For an excellent, inexpensive tow rig look for a 1997 Ford F250 powerstroke. The 1997 powerstroke is great, the 04 powerstroke is horrible. My dad picked one up for 12k wholesale with a torque converter in it and we use it to tow. The torque converter is a great investment for towing a trail rig, do some research about the torque converter. You can use the extra money to buy a nice car for a DD and use the truck for work and towing. But in my opinion for an 04 diesel, "I would rather be cummin than strokin!" By the way, I work at a Chevy dealership, so no biased opinions here.

 

[Lawn Cher']

Re: Just drove a Dodge CTD, Chevy Duramax, and a Ford Powerstroke......impressions.....

I agree with the old man. For an excellent, inexpensive tow rig look for a 1997 Ford F250 powerstroke. The 1997 powerstroke is great, the 04 powerstroke is horrible. My dad picked one up for 12k wholesale with a torque converter in it and we use it to tow. The torque converter is a great investment for towing a trail rig, do some research about the torque converter. You can use the extra money to buy a nice car for a DD and use the truck for work and towing. But in my opinion for an 04 diesel, "I would rather be cummin than strokin!" By the way, I work at a Chevy dealership, so no biased opinions here.

A torque converter is an integral part of an automatic transmission... what are you getting at in your statement above?

 

[seanR]

Re: Just drove a Dodge CTD, Chevy Duramax, and a Ford Powerstroke......impressions.....

The 1997 powerstroke is great, the 04 powerstroke is horrible.

What are you Smoking?
The 04 has almost 100 HP more than the 97.
The 04 has a newly redesigned trans that can handle the power out put of the PSD.

My dad picked one up for 12k wholesale with a torque converter in it and we use it to tow.

All Automatic trans have a Torque converter!
12k for an 04!!??
Plain they are $35,000
Goatman would love to get some of those deals!
So would I!!

The torque converter is a great investment for towing a trail rig, do some research about the torque converter. You can use the extra money to buy a nice car for a DD and use the truck for work and towing.

Perhaps you should be doing the reasearch!

But in my opinion for an 04 diesel, "I would rather be cummin than strokin!" By the way, I work at a Chevy dealership, so no biased opinions here.

No, just one based on a bunch of stuff that you need to learn more about!

Please do your homework before giving people advice!

 

[Drake00XJ]

Re: Just drove a Dodge CTD, Chevy Duramax, and a Ford Powerstroke......impressions.....

Well excuse me for just getting off of the black asphalt in the 113 degree sun. I did not mean a torque converter, I meant a gear vender. So with that in mind, I will erase my entire previous statement. The 12k wholesale I was refering to was for a 97 like I clearly stated. The 97 has become a proven engine, while the 04 has not and has been seen to be problematic. Any other punches you want to throw.

 

[Goatman]

Re: Just drove a Dodge CTD, Chevy Duramax, and a Ford Powerstroke......impressions.....

Damn, so many things here to agree and disagree with.......where do I start?

I like SeanP's example, exactly why I got what I got. The numbers aren't quite as dramatic as he worked out, but it's still WAY more miles to break even than anyone will ever drive in one vehicle. I also had the chance to buy a '97 PSD with just under 100k for around $12k when I bought mine for $5k. My thinking was that for a rig that I only occasionally use to tow, I didn't want to invest any more money in it. BTW, I only get 7 mpg around town, 11 mpg highway empty, and 7-8 mpg towing the XJ and with the cabover camper. Another thing that I took into account is the potential (bad luck) in a cheaper, higher mileage vehicle of having to replace the motor. A 460 can be replaced for less than $2K, while a diesel will cost $6k+. Granted, there is a decent chance that the diesel will outlast the gas engine, but the risk is still there.

Now, for those who tow often, and tow heavy loads, there is no question that the diesel is the superior tow vehicle. It all comes down to preference and what we are able and/or willing to spend.