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I've lost my mind.. or an MP90 on a stroker

urban yan said:
Wow, what a deal!! Congrats man.
I rather a regular IC as well, but I have no clue where I would put one (like I said before, I don't like clutter). Also, wouldn't a core within your intake push your SC out too far from the engine?
Click to expand...

I will be increasing the size of the plenum massively to end up with the SC bottom at the same height the current TB is.

In theory.
 
vetteboy said:
2.5L 4-cyl pumps bolt on and have a remote reservoir from the factory.
Click to expand...
That is one option. I need to get my hands on one at least for test fitting as the input line may be pointing in the wrong direction.

As for an inter-cooler. I purchased this MP90 to install it on top of the intake manifold. I specifically looked for this type with the long snout so the outlet could be close to centered over the intake manifold. If I was going to do a side hung install with severe reworking of the manifold to facilitate an inter-cooler I would have looked for one that that a shorter snout and was shorter over all. Perhaps something similar to this: http://www.mustangevolution.com/forum/attachments/12251d1141175277-chris-supercharger.jpg. I think that one would be better suited to a side install as I could move it forward more giving me more room to work with the throttle body mount w/o interfering with the brake master cylinder. As it is this snout should line up well with the serpentine belt and give me just enough room before the firewall to put the throttle body on the rear.

Perhaps there will be a version two with a more modified intake manifold, side hung and inter-cooled.
 
PS pump. I looked into a remote reservoir when the Sprintex was installed. The issue I had was finding a spot in the bay that was high enough above the pump inlet for the system to work. Keep in mind these GM pump are gravity fed. They are not positive displacement in nature. The 4.0 in the YJ has a remote reservoir but go look at how high it is compared to the pump. After taking measurements of my bay, I could not find a place for the reservoir that would not result in starving the pump.

Procedurally, I "extended" the pump inlet up and then used a framing level to hunt for a spot to put the reservoir outlet. A simple jig to hold one end of the level at the pump inlet location. Just could not locate an acceptable location that would allow the Heep to go into the rocks. Or even, for that matter, some of the city streets we have around here.

So, I will be very interested in what is discovered as I really hope I have missed something. I would like to be wrong here so help an old guy out... There are benefits to a remote reservoir, capacity being the least of them. There are tons of aftermarket PS pumps out there that have threaded inlets as well as the stock pumps from either the 2.5L or a YJ 4.0L.
 
I could mount the reservoir to the front of the SC utilizing the snout bolts. Driver's side would probably work best. Another option is make a mount off the SC snout bracket. It will be nearly directly over the PS pump.

The only problem I see with the 2.5L pump and YJ pump is that the inlet points down and forward, which may cause an issue in hose routing. For cross over years PSC's kit states 95-06 TJ 2.5L/4.0L and XJ. So, pre 95 there may be something different about the pumps. PSC also has a pretty good PDF on reservoir mounting tips: http://www.pscmotorsports.com/pdf/tech/reservoir_tips.pdf
 
Talyn said:
I could mount the reservoir to the front of the SC utilizing the snout bolts. Driver's side would probably work best. Another option is make a mount off the SC snout bracket. It will be nearly directly over the PS pump.

The only problem I see with the 2.5L pump and YJ pump is that the inlet points down and forward, which may cause an issue in hose routing. For cross over years PSC's kit states 95-06 TJ 2.5L/4.0L and XJ. So, pre 95 there may be something different about the pumps. PSC also has a pretty good PDF on reservoir mounting tips: http://www.pscmotorsports.com/pdf/tech/reservoir_tips.pdf
Click to expand...
probably something to do with the tensioner setup changes, I know on the 4.0 the old style tensioner with a 2 bolt PS pump was used till 95 and the new style with a 3 bolt PS pump was used 96 and later. I don't really know much about 4cyl jeeps, but my money's on this, either PSC has the year split off by one or chrysler changed the 4cyl's tensioner/PS pump configuration one year earlier than the 6cyl.

edit: looking in the 94-96 parts catalog, figure 19-510, there was a mid-year split in '95 for the power steering pump on the 4 cylinder engine. They list "w/o sales code XCT (1996 engine parts)" and "with sales code XCT (1996 engine parts)" which I take to mean an option code of XCT on the build sheet would result in the later belt tensioner design and power steering pump being installed.

Side note - there was an intake manifold design change between 95 and 96 on the 4.0 for the PS pump mounting changes, but not on the 2.5 apparently. Now I'm really confused, since the PS pump change I thought was happening on the 2.5 here is the one that would require a different manifold...
 
Last edited:
Talyn said:
I could mount the reservoir to the front of the SC utilizing the snout bolts. Driver's side would probably work best. Another option is make a mount off the SC snout bracket. It will be nearly directly over the PS pump.

The only problem I see with the 2.5L pump and YJ pump is that the inlet points down and forward, which may cause an issue in hose routing. For cross over years PSC's kit states 95-06 TJ 2.5L/4.0L and XJ. So, pre 95 there may be something different about the pumps. PSC also has a pretty good PDF on reservoir mounting tips: http://www.pscmotorsports.com/pdf/tech/reservoir_tips.pdf
Click to expand...

So, relocate the pump lower in the bay? Good idea. One that, to my limited knowledge, has not been tried before. With the pump lower will idlers be required?
 
No, I won't be lowering the pump in the bay. That would take some major work. Plus you would lose wrap on the water pump.

I'm talking about mounting the reservoir attached to the supercharger's snout mount bolts or on the front snout support plate. I may try the reservoir in a different location first just to see how it behaves.
 
My bad there. I see no reason why mounting the reservoir to the snout should not work. If I had access to a mill, would give it a go on mine as I really would like to mount the WJ pump...
 
Talyn said:
That is one option. I need to get my hands on one at least for test fitting as the input line may be pointing in the wrong direction.
Click to expand...

I have one of questionable mechanical condition that's yours for the cost of shipping if you want it. Came off a '94 2.5L YJ motor that sat out in the rain for a while.
 
merdock69 said:
Deleted, OP already said he looked at PSC stuff... My bad.
Click to expand...

Actually, that brings up a good point. That mount doesn't follow some of their recommendations in their reservoir mount PDF. "2. It is preferable to mount the reservoir directly over the pump. If this is not possible, in front of the pump is typically better than behind it." Behind the pump; "2. It is preferable to mount the reservoir directly over the pump. If this is not possible, in front of the pump is typically better than behind it." and "It should not exceed 16 inches." Quite a bit over 16 inches in that positions. It also wouldn't take much of a hill to put the pump above the reservoir.
 
Talyn said:
Actually, that brings up a good point. That mount doesn't follow some of their recommendations in their reservoir mount PDF. "2. It is preferable to mount the reservoir directly over the pump. If this is not possible, in front of the pump is typically better than behind it." Behind the pump; "2. It is preferable to mount the reservoir directly over the pump. If this is not possible, in front of the pump is typically better than behind it." and "It should not exceed 16 inches." Quite a bit over 16 inches in that positions. It also wouldn't take much of a hill to put the pump above the reservoir.
Click to expand...


And so... This is where I stumbled. Could not find an acceptable location for the reservoir. Either not high enogh or not close enough...

I spoke with PSC, AGR, Howe amongst others. All of them said the same thing, that the number one killer of these pumps is fluid starvation caused by the reservoir being improperly located. I hate to admit defeat. I really do.

Would a horizontal tank mounted on the snout fit?

You know? I really need to cut up my spare hood to make a clearance mock up. What I have in mind is to "de-skin" the hood, then remove just enough of it at the back to clear the hinges and hood prop. At least then I could see exactly what clearances are (not) available. Will need to punch holes up front to clear the latches also I suppose...
 
Here's where I had mine. I notched the hood a little bit to clear, but the inlet hose to the PSC pump was about 10" and roughly horizontal, *maybe* a slight downhill to the pump. I also had removed the inner fenderwells at this point so I don't know if the clearance is there with all the stock stuff in place.

4329789080_a57110e9cf_o.jpg


4329789044_5025c7e462_o.jpg


While it's not optimal, you can have a slight uphill to the pump if needed...what's important is that there's a 'head' of fluid that's higher than the pump inlet. With a stock steering box and no hydro assist the fluid level should stay pretty static, so you should be able to fill the reservoir up pretty high and make sure that the fluid level is adequately above the pump inlet regardless of how your hose routing is.

I've also seen discussions about the possible merits of running a slightly pressurized reservoir for the steering to help prevent cavitation and fluid starvation...'industry' guys have mixed opinions on whether a vented reservoir or a sealed one is OK. Just more food for thought.
 
vetteboy said:
I've also seen discussions about the possible merits of running a slightly pressurized reservoir for the steering to help prevent cavitation and fluid starvation...'industry' guys have mixed opinions on whether a vented reservoir or a sealed one is OK. Just more food for thought.
Click to expand...

That brings up something else. On my ZJ and XJ after driving it and I check the fluid I always get a pop when the pressure is released from the reservoir. So, the stock system is sealed to a certain point.
 
I've been working on the drawings for the output and input ports. I started with the technical drawings provided by Magnuson. I then laid the forms out in Illustrator and then printed them out. The bolt holes lined up well, but the general form was a bit off. I did a dry rubbing then scanned them in. From there I brought the images into illustrator and modified the forms.
ports.jpg

The red is the modified form. The output adapter plate will have bolts around the passenger side, from and rear to secure it to the modified intake. The driver's side will get studs and hand over the intake's plate. I have not yet added drill points for the throttle body's bolts, but the throttle body port seen (red) is 70mm. I have yet to decide on placement of the vacuum ports nor the port for the water/meth injection on the intake plate yet.

I have purchased a 00+ intake manifold complete with throttle body and fuel rail. The TB and fuel rail will be for mock up.

Up next is cutting an inspection hole in the intake manifold to see what else i may need to modify and decide on how much to cut off. I will also cut mock up forms on the router for the intake and output ports for the SC.
 
So far, so good. I like that you are not, in any way, obstructing the compressor discharge port. I have seen a certain person do that (obstruct the port, in this case by nearly 50%) and the compressor basically fried... A massive amount of heat was being generated as the compressor was under "load" at all times. Not a healthy way to go.

So, me likey what you have going.
 
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